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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: burgerbrain]
#22353865 - 10/09/15 09:38 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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The point was you for to read it.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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burgerbrain
Freedom Lover



Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 962
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: paperbackwriter]
#22353874 - 10/09/15 09:41 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said: The point was you for to read it.

I read it, apparently you did not.
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,866
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: burgerbrain]
#22353875 - 10/09/15 09:41 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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My point? My point is that you are posting material to discredit Sanders' positions, but your sources affirm them. According to your sources, Norway has been wildly successful with its democratic socialist policies. So, in answer to your original question: "why vote for Bernie again?" Because according to your own sources, Bernie has adopted effective economic policies.
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Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
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burgerbrain
Freedom Lover



Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 962
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: ballsalsa]
#22353895 - 10/09/15 09:45 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said: My point? My point is that you are posting material to discredit Sanders' positions, but your sources affirm them. According to your sources, Norway has been wildly successful with its democratic socialist policies. So, in answer to your original question: "why vote for Bernie again?" Because according to your own sources, Bernie has adopted effective economic policies.
So "wildly successful" means that they have one of the lowest "Financial Net Wealth of Households"? LOL Good one.
Figure 4: Financial Net Wealth of Households
Bernie wants us all to have ZERO WEALTH, how is that an "effective economic policy"?
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: burgerbrain] 1
#22353915 - 10/09/15 09:50 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
burgerbrain said:
Quote:
ballsalsa said: My point? My point is that you are posting material to discredit Sanders' positions, but your sources affirm them. According to your sources, Norway has been wildly successful with its democratic socialist policies. So, in answer to your original question: "why vote for Bernie again?" Because according to your own sources, Bernie has adopted effective economic policies.
So "wildly successful" means that they have one of the lowest "Financial Net Wealth of Households"? LOL Good one.
Figure 4: Financial Net Wealth of Households
Bernie wants us all to have ZERO WEALTH, how is that an "effective economic policy"?
I can't help but think you're being intentionally obtuse about this. Net Wealth only measures financial assets. Not every culture keeps tons of money in the bank or invests in the stock markets. When you have a large safety net, like Norway for instance, you're less inclined to need a big safety cushion like you are here.
Additionally the Norwegians just may not value money the way we do. They may be more inclined to spend it instead of hoarding it or shit, even giving it away to help their fellow man!
This is why you have to put things in context and look at the big picture to get an accurate representation of something. If I put my nose up to a painting and tell you that it's red I may only see a small part of a much bigger picture. The red might be a stop sign and the whole picture may be mostly images of a green forest and blue skies.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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burgerbrain
Freedom Lover



Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 962
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: paperbackwriter]
#22353946 - 10/09/15 09:56 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said:
Quote:
burgerbrain said:
Quote:
ballsalsa said: My point? My point is that you are posting material to discredit Sanders' positions, but your sources affirm them. According to your sources, Norway has been wildly successful with its democratic socialist policies. So, in answer to your original question: "why vote for Bernie again?" Because according to your own sources, Bernie has adopted effective economic policies.
So "wildly successful" means that they have one of the lowest "Financial Net Wealth of Households"? LOL Good one.
Figure 4: Financial Net Wealth of Households
Bernie wants us all to have ZERO WEALTH, how is that an "effective economic policy"?
I can't help but think you're being intentionally obtuse about this. Net Wealth only measures financial assets. Not every culture keeps tons of money in the bank or invests in the stock markets. When you have a large safety net, like Norway for instance, you're less inclined to need a big safety cushion like you are here.
Additionally the Norwegians just may not value money the way we do. They may be more inclined to spend it instead of hoarding it or shit, even giving it away to help their fellow man!
This is why you have to put things in context and look at the big picture to get an accurate representation of something. If I put my nose up to a painting and tell you that it's red I may only see a small part of a much bigger picture. The red might be a stop sign and the whole picture may be mostly images of a green forest and blue skies.
So now you're arguing against having Wealth? Money in the bank is a GOOD thing, to where you can build your OWN safety net-don't have to rely on gov' bureaucratic bullshit.
Actually if the Norwegians gave their money to their fellow man (Other Norwegians), why would the AVERAGE "Financial Net Wealth of Households" go down? Doesn't make any sense.
Yes the big picture is Bernie wants us all to have NO WEALTH and for us all to RELY on the GOVERNMENT.
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: burgerbrain]
#22354061 - 10/09/15 10:23 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
burgerbrain said: So now you're arguing against having Wealth? Money in the bank is a GOOD thing, to where you can build your OWN safety net-don't have to rely on gov' bureaucratic bullshit.
I'm not arguing for the Goodness or Badness of anything. What I'm arguing is that in Norway having Wealth is of less of a concern. If you're not worried about going bankrupt from medical bills, or losing your job, etc. etc. you have less reason to have a nest egg when shit goes bad.
Quote:
Actually if the Norwegians gave their money to their fellow man (Other Norwegians), why would the AVERAGE "Financial Net Wealth of Households" go down? Doesn't make any sense.
The Norwegians have voted to have higher taxes in order to have better social safety nets. This is a form of giving money to the community. It shows how their priorities and perspective differs from our own. They're more collectivist and we're more individualist, as a general rule.
Quote:
Yes the big picture is Bernie wants us all to have NO WEALTH and for us all to RELY on the GOVERNMENT.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: paperbackwriter]
#22354118 - 10/09/15 10:35 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
ed to have higher taxes in order to have better social safety nets. This is a form of giving money to the community. It shows how their priorities and perspective differs from our own. They're more collectivist and we're more individualist, as a general rule.
And what is wrong with rugged individualism?
The reason they have little wealth is exactly as you stated. They aren't motivated to achieve anything because they have a luxurious welfare state. Just like people here on welfare aren't motivated to get off it, why work hard and bust your arse when the govt will take care of you? It sounds like a very lazy way to live your life, IMO
***insert slogan here
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: hostileuniverse]
#22354152 - 10/09/15 10:43 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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You haven't demonstrated that they're lazy. As the article pointed out and I reposted in my first response the GDP of Norway exceeds our own (by a fucking lot!). I call that empirical data. If you care to refute it post a fucking source.
As far as 'rugged individualism' I have no problem with it if you live a subsistence lifestyle. If you live in a society, which is by definition a collection of individuals, it's crazy not to seek compromise.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: paperbackwriter]
#22354311 - 10/09/15 11:30 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said: You haven't demonstrated that they're lazy. As the article pointed out and I reposted in my first response the GDP of Norway exceeds our own (by a fucking lot!). I call that empirical data. If you care to refute it post a fucking source.
Here's your fucking source
http://www.sfi.dk/Files/Filer/SFI/Pdf/Working_papers/WP-02-2012-The-Effect-of-UI-Exhaustion.pdf
Quote:
Figure 5 shows the results on remaining UI (R). The figure shows clear jumps in the hazard rate out of unemployment into employment when the unemployed are close to UI exhaustion. The exit into employment reaches its maximum around three to six months before exhaustion. At its peak (3-6 months UI left) the odds of finding employment is increased by 1700% , compared to the reference category 12 to 15 months left before exhaustion.
So the long and short of it is that as people near the end of their unemployment insurance, they "magically" find a job, I wonder why that is...
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,866
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: hostileuniverse]
#22354343 - 10/09/15 11:39 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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probably has something to do with people collecting UI wanting to actually get back some of the money they paid in for their whole lives...
--------------------
Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: hostileuniverse]
#22354355 - 10/09/15 11:42 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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You still have not demonstrated that countries with more safety nets are in fact lazy. Again the GDP of these countries show that they are 'doing work'.
Does unemployment insurance create less incentive to find work? Of course. I'm not arguing that and I think anyone would be a fool too.
But something that also affects how quickly someone finds employment (according to your article) is how educated they are. Do you see free education as a form of welfare?
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: paperbackwriter]
#22354741 - 10/09/15 02:02 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said: You still have not demonstrated that countries with more safety nets are in fact lazy. Again the GDP of these countries show that they are 'doing work'.
Does unemployment insurance create less incentive to find work? Of course. I'm not arguing that and I think anyone would be a fool too.
But something that also affects how quickly someone finds employment (according to your article) is how educated they are. Do you see free education as a form of welfare?
call it what you will, what's your excuse that they have no wealth? Oh that's right, they give it all away, lol
Anything that someone else pays for, yes, is a form of welfare
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: hostileuniverse]
#22354817 - 10/09/15 02:28 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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My excuse is that wealth is valued differently by different cultures. The article itself said this as has been reiterated several times and quoted several times in this thread.
We measure wealth economically based on how much money someone has either in their bank account or invested in stocks and bonds. For all I know Norwegians are big into property investment. Cars, houses, boats, shit that doesn't show up under net wealth. But that's the point, we don't know and when we look at every other figure for Norway it's very clear that they have a healthy economy in spite of the one fucking piece of data burgerbruh posted.
But shit, one more time with some emphasis because why the fuck not bruh!
Quote:
Differences in the net wealth of countries can arise for a number of reasons. They may be due to the importance placed on other assets over financial assets. This in turn may be reflected in the extent to which households participate in the financial markets. Finally, differences in social security systems across the countries may encourage some households to take out private pensions and life insurance.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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burgerbrain
Freedom Lover



Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 962
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: paperbackwriter]
#22356465 - 10/09/15 09:07 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said: My excuse is that wealth is valued differently by different cultures. The article itself said this as has been reiterated several times and quoted several times in this thread.
We measure wealth economically based on how much money someone has either in their bank account or invested in stocks and bonds. For all I know Norwegians are big into property investment. Cars, houses, boats, shit that doesn't show up under net wealth. But that's the point, we don't know and when we look at every other figure for Norway it's very clear that they have a healthy economy in spite of the one fucking piece of data burgerbruh posted.
But shit, one more time with some emphasis because why the fuck not bruh!
Quote:
Differences in the net wealth of countries can arise for a number of reasons. They may be due to the importance placed on other assets over financial assets. This in turn may be reflected in the extent to which households participate in the financial markets. Finally, differences in social security systems across the countries may encourage some households to take out private pensions and life insurance.
LOL. How do you know that this graph doesn't take into account cars, houses, boats. I think you're making an assumption again. Remember that the USA is on the highest end of the "wealth" spectrum while Norway is at the lowest- and you think Norway is doing "good" LOL
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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
Last seen: 7 months, 2 days
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: paperbackwriter] 1
#22356577 - 10/09/15 09:35 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Is it true that in Norway Golden Unicorns sail across rainbow-clored skies and everyday is saturday? 
That's why I'm not going to vote for Bernie, Ive decided. Because he's blowing smoke up everyone's ass promising them a socialist utopia.
And most of you suckers are falling for it like the starry eyed, hypnotized fucking morons who voted that classless fucking buffoon into office because 'he was cool and his skin is black and he's a genius'

man how could people be that fucking stupid?
Edited by starfire_xes (10/09/15 09:36 PM)
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burgerbrain
Freedom Lover



Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 962
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: starfire_xes]
#22356678 - 10/09/15 09:57 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
starfire_xes said: Is it true that in Norway Golden Unicorns sail across rainbow-clored skies and everyday is saturday? 
That's why I'm not going to vote for Bernie, Ive decided. Because he's blowing smoke up everyone's ass promising them a socialist utopia.
And most of you suckers are falling for it like the starry eyed, hypnotized fucking morons who voted that classless fucking buffoon into office because 'he was cool and his skin is black and he's a genius'

man how could people be that fucking stupid?
 I agree with you. Fucking stupid sheeple "Let's give all of our money to the government - they know how to spend it better than we do!" "Let's vote for the most popular kid in class- fuck intelligence, wisdom, freedom"
Edited by burgerbrain (10/09/15 11:44 PM)
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burgerbrain
Freedom Lover



Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 962
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: starfire_xes]
#22358273 - 10/10/15 09:51 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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burgerbrain
Freedom Lover



Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 962
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: burgerbrain]
#22366365 - 10/12/15 12:38 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Too many Bernie supporters, gotta bump
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,369
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 2 hours, 11 minutes
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: hostileuniverse]
#22367335 - 10/12/15 09:44 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
paperbackwriter said: You still have not demonstrated that countries with more safety nets are in fact lazy. Again the GDP of these countries show that they are 'doing work'.
Does unemployment insurance create less incentive to find work? Of course. I'm not arguing that and I think anyone would be a fool too.
But something that also affects how quickly someone finds employment (according to your article) is how educated they are. Do you see free education as a form of welfare?
call it what you will, what's your excuse that they have no wealth? Oh that's right, they give it all away, lol
Anything that someone else pays for, yes, is a form of welfare
Dodge questions much?
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