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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: burgerbrain]
    #22580720 - 11/27/15 01:57 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

burgerbrain said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

burgerbrain said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
It wouldn't have ended the world, but leading economists say the bailouts prevented a Great Depression.  Either explain why I was wrong, or stop accusing people of lying just because you keep losing all your arguments.



Only retards want to spend Trillions of dollars on nothing. I guess libs fall into this category.



I guess you're wrong - AGAIN - TWICE in once sentence.

1.  Money wasn't loaned for "nothing".  As has been repeatedly pointed out to you, that money prevented a Great Depression.
2.  The $700 million TARP loan program didn't cost the taxpayer a thing; in fact, we got a $15.3 billion profit.




Fuck man you can't even read your own articles you link. Pathetic that you can't read. And it was 700 BILLION, get your numbers straight or go back to school.



Oooh, you got me on a typo!!!  I'll bet you're celebrating tonight!  :dancer:

Quote:

burgerbrain said:
Overall, the auto bailout was the one big money loser for TARP. Even with the Ally sale, taxpayers lost about $9.2 billion.
http://money.cnn.com/2014/12/19/news/companies/government-bailouts-end/




First of all, taxpayers still got a net GAIN of $15.3 billion even with a $9.2 billion loss on the auto bailout.

Secondly, "opting not to bail out the auto industry likely would have proven far more costly, since GM, Chrysler and many car dealers likely would have gone out of business without the government's help."

So again, the taxpayer made out.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Invisibleburgerbrain
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #22580730 - 11/27/15 02:04 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

burgerbrain said:

Quote:

burgerbrain said:
Overall, the auto bailout was the one big money loser for TARP. Even with the Ally sale, taxpayers lost about $9.2 billion.
http://money.cnn.com/2014/12/19/news/companies/government-bailouts-end/




First of all, taxpayers still got a net GAIN of $15.3 billion even with a $9.2 billion loss on the auto bailout.

Secondly, "opting not to bail out the auto industry likely would have proven far more costly, since GM, Chrysler and many car dealers likely would have gone out of business without the government's help."

So again, the taxpayer made out.







So you can't link any evidence that "the taxpayer made out" why do you keep spouting this useless moronic drivel?

The bailout cost taxpayers, despite Treasury’s claims.
Now, while a profit of $15 billion sounds enormous, it only amounts to a nominal annualized return of 0.6 percent. Even Treasury Bills (maturing after three years or longer) would have been a better investment, so this is hardly impressive While this is a miniscule return on investment, there’s another factor overlooked: inflation. Amazingly, although the period since 2008 has been one of at-best-sideways movement in the economy, the U.S. dollar still managed to lose more than 10 percent of its value in that period. Calculated using the Bureau of Labor Statistics inflation calculator, $441.7 billion in 2015 dollars is the equivalent of $402.71 billion in 2008 dollars, which would imply that TARP actually netted a loss of nearly $24 billion
Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/395822/overselling-tarp-myth-15-billion-profit-matt-palumbo

I win again per usual. You're not very good at debate are you Fal? Poor guy


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #22581041 - 11/27/15 05:58 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Quote:

burgerbrain said:
Heheh gullible people like Fal will always trust the gov' when it comes to spending Trillions on banks.



Ain't that the truth, when it comes to these big govt types, the govt can do no wrong:rolleyes:



No, liberals don't believe the Government can do no wrong.  Nor did anyone say that ANYWHERE.  PLEASE STOP THE STRAW MAN ARGUMENTS!

I think you're something like 0 for 100 on what liberals believe.  You're ignorance is beyond anything I've seen before.  You need to end your fantasies about what liberals believe and only argue with what they actually tell you they believe.  :shake:




I should only argue with what YOU say they believe??? :lmafo:


--------------------
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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #22581056 - 11/27/15 06:07 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

It wouldn't have ended the world, but leading economists say the bailouts prevented a Great Depression.  Either explain why I was wrong, or stop accusing people of lying just because you keep losing all your arguments.



Only retards want to spend Trillions of dollars on nothing. I guess libs fall into this category.



I guess you're wrong - AGAIN - TWICE in once sentence.

1.  Money wasn't loaned for "nothing".  As has been repeatedly pointed out to you, that money prevented a Great Depression.
2.  The $700 million TARP loan program didn't cost the taxpayer a thing; in fact, we got a $15.3 billion profit.




Fuck man you can't even read your own articles you link. Pathetic that you can't read. And it was 700 BILLION, get your numbers straight or go back to school.



Oooh, you got me on a typo!!!  I'll bet you're celebrating tonight!  :dancer:

Quote:

burgerbrain said:
Overall, the auto bailout was the one big money loser for TARP. Even with the Ally sale, taxpayers lost about $9.2 billion.
http://money.cnn.com/2014/12/19/news/companies/government-bailouts-end/




First of all, taxpayers still got a net GAIN of $15.3 billion even with a $9.2 billion loss on the auto bailout.

Secondly, "opting not to bail out the auto industry likely would have proven far more costly, since GM, Chrysler and many car dealers likely would have gone out of business without the government's help."

So again, the taxpayer made out.




the taxpayer "made out"? is that why my taxes went up instead of down? the fact is that the taxpayers NEVER see any of that money again, even if the govt does,

my opinion on the auto bailout is this, did the govt help GM? yes, did they punish other car companies that were successful? yes, bailing out GM meant that that share of the auto market, which would have been gobbled up by the other successful companies, remained in GM's control. would there have been a correction? of course, business's would have went under, people would have lost their jobs, but they would have found others, GM dealers would have become Toyota or Ford dealers, 

and here's your STRAWMAN, once again, the govt punished the successful and rewarded the unsuccessful, you can see that pattern over and over again with just about everything the govt does.


--------------------
http://www.countdowntotrump.com





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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: burgerbrain]
    #22582788 - 11/27/15 03:03 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

burgerbrain said:
So you can't link any evidence that "the taxpayer made out" why do you keep spouting this useless moronic drivel?



I did link to it.  The taxpayers made money from the bailout.

Quote:

burgerbrain said:
Now, while a profit of $15 billion sounds enormous, it only amounts to a nominal annualized return of 0.6 percent.



The bailouts were done to prevent a Great Depression, not to make a profit for the Government.  Are you really that clueless???

Quote:

burgerbrain said:
I win again per usual. You're not very good at debate are you Fal? Poor guy



:kidreally:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: hostileuniverse] * 1
    #22582826 - 11/27/15 03:12 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
and here's your STRAWMAN, once again, the govt punished the successful and rewarded the unsuccessful, you can see that pattern over and over again with just about everything the govt does.



The Government didn't punish the successful, but I agree they disproportionally rewarded the wealthy.

And please learn what a straw man is so you don't keep using it, or misapplying it to others:  Your logical fallacy is...


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Invisibleburgerbrain
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #22583367 - 11/27/15 05:40 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

burgerbrain said:
So you can't link any evidence that "the taxpayer made out" why do you keep spouting this useless moronic drivel?



I did link to it.  The taxpayers made money from the bailout.

Quote:

burgerbrain said:
Now, while a profit of $15 billion sounds enormous, it only amounts to a nominal annualized return of 0.6 percent.



The bailouts were done to prevent a Great Depression, not to make a profit for the Government.  Are you really that clueless???

Quote:

burgerbrain said:
I win again per usual. You're not very good at debate are you Fal? Poor guy



:kidreally:





The bailout cost taxpayers, despite Treasury’s claims.
Now, while a profit of $15 billion sounds enormous, it only amounts to a nominal annualized return of 0.6 percent. Even Treasury Bills (maturing after three years or longer) would have been a better investment, so this is hardly impressive While this is a miniscule return on investment, there’s another factor overlooked: inflation. Amazingly, although the period since 2008 has been one of at-best-sideways movement in the economy, the U.S. dollar still managed to lose more than 10 percent of its value in that period. Calculated using the Bureau of Labor Statistics inflation calculator, $441.7 billion in 2015 dollars is the equivalent of $402.71 billion in 2008 dollars, which would imply that TARP actually netted a loss of nearly $24 billion
Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/395822/overselling-tarp-myth-15-billion-profit-matt-palumbo


"Derp derp derp Taxpayers made money derp derp derp" fucking hilarious how this guy can't read.

No, liberal, the bailouts did not prevent an economic depression- The depression happened despite the Trillions in spending by our government. Our government really has you brainwashed.


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: burgerbrain] * 1
    #22584007 - 11/27/15 08:36 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Keynsian econmics, the govt just didn't spend ENOUGH money, and surely those evil republicans are to blame, right Fal?


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22585404 - 11/28/15 08:54 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

It depends on your desired result.  If it's a faster recovery, then you are correct.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #22586009 - 11/28/15 11:42 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
It depends on your desired result.  If it's a faster recovery, then you are correct.




And if the desired result was not trillions in debt, then what?


--------------------
http://www.countdowntotrump.com





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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22586308 - 11/28/15 12:59 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Then you have a depression, which would also be very costly due to all the lost tax revenue plus the extra unemployment and other such benefits that would have to be paid out.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Invisibleburgerbrain
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #22586499 - 11/28/15 01:44 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Then you have a depression, which would also be very costly due to all the lost tax revenue plus the extra unemployment and other such benefits that would have to be paid out.




Bailouts don't stop depressions, not sure where the libs got this idea- more main stream media brainwashing in effect?

More retarded pro-government, pro-banker, shit from the liberals.

Bank Bailouts, Stimulus Didn't Ward Off Depression
http://www.heritage.org/research/commentary/2014/5/bank-bailouts-stimulus-didnt-ward-off-depression

All knowledgeable D.C. types know that the TARP and Fed bailout of Wall Street banks five years ago saved us from a second Great Depression. Like most things known by knowledgeable Washington types, this is not true.
http://www.cepr.net/publications/op-eds-columns/the-financial-crisis-and-the-second-great-depression-myth

All This Stuff About Bailouts Preventing The Second Great Depression Is Just Propaganda
http://www.businessinsider.com/propaganda-second-great-depression-2010-8


--------------------


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Offlineqman
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: burgerbrain]
    #22586595 - 11/28/15 02:05 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

burgerbrain said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Then you have a depression, which would also be very costly due to all the lost tax revenue plus the extra unemployment and other such benefits that would have to be paid out.




Bailouts don't stop depressions, not sure where the libs got this idea- more main stream media brainwashing in effect?

More retarded pro-government, pro-banker, shit from the liberals.

Bank Bailouts, Stimulus Didn't Ward Off Depression
http://www.heritage.org/research/commentary/2014/5/bank-bailouts-stimulus-didnt-ward-off-depression

All knowledgeable D.C. types know that the TARP and Fed bailout of Wall Street banks five years ago saved us from a second Great Depression. Like most things known by knowledgeable Washington types, this is not true.
http://www.cepr.net/publications/op-eds-columns/the-financial-crisis-and-the-second-great-depression-myth

All This Stuff About Bailouts Preventing The Second Great Depression Is Just Propaganda
http://www.businessinsider.com/propaganda-second-great-depression-2010-8




The thing is most "liberals" never supported the bailouts, either did true "conservatives".

Falcon is a very small minority that still supports the "bailouts" after all of these years. He's basically a huge apologist for the super elite on this issue, justifying this crony capitalism by suggesting that the disadvantaged would have suffered as a result, which is pure speculation on his part.

When you point out the massive wealth and income inequality that was created as a result, these crony capitalism apologists start blaming it on something like tax policy.


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: qman]
    #22586604 - 11/28/15 02:10 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

:thatsaten:


--------------------
http://www.countdowntotrump.com





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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: qman]
    #22586732 - 11/28/15 02:39 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Falcon is a very small minority that still supports the "bailouts" after all of these years. He's basically a huge apologist for the super elite on this issue, justifying this crony capitalism by suggesting that the disadvantaged would have suffered as a result, which is pure speculation on his part.



No it's not speculation.  You don't think a depression would have hurt the disadvantaged?

Quote:

qman said:
When you point out the massive wealth and income inequality that was created as a result, these crony capitalism apologists start blaming it on something like tax policy.



The inequality that came after the bailout was a result of Congress helping Wall St over than Main St.  It wasn't the bailout that was the problem, it was Congress' misallocation of the funds.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #22586756 - 11/28/15 02:44 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

qman said:
Falcon is a very small minority that still supports the "bailouts" after all of these years. He's basically a huge apologist for the super elite on this issue, justifying this crony capitalism by suggesting that the disadvantaged would have suffered as a result, which is pure speculation on his part.



No it's not speculation.  You don't think a depression would have hurt the disadvantaged?

Quote:

qman said:
When you point out the massive wealth and income inequality that was created as a result, these crony capitalism apologists start blaming it on something like tax policy.



The inequality that came after the bailout was a result of Congress helping Wall St over than Main St.  It wasn't the bailout that was the problem, it was Congress' misallocation of the funds.




what do you think the GM bailout was? was that for wall street or main street? just wondering how you view that aspect of it...


--------------------
http://www.countdowntotrump.com





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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22586777 - 11/28/15 02:48 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
what do you think the GM bailout was? was that for wall street or main street? just wondering how you view that aspect of it...



That one was for Main St.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #22586812 - 11/28/15 02:56 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
what do you think the GM bailout was? was that for wall street or main street? just wondering how you view that aspect of it...



That one was for Main St.




and do you know who took the losses from this bailout?


--------------------
http://www.countdowntotrump.com





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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22586837 - 11/28/15 03:02 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

No one.  There was a net gain from the bailouts.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Invisibleburgerbrain
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #22586842 - 11/28/15 03:03 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
No one.  There was a net gain from the bailouts.




The bailout cost taxpayers, despite Treasury’s claims.
Now, while a profit of $15 billion sounds enormous, it only amounts to a nominal annualized return of 0.6 percent. Even Treasury Bills (maturing after three years or longer) would have been a better investment, so this is hardly impressive While this is a miniscule return on investment, there’s another factor overlooked: inflation. Amazingly, although the period since 2008 has been one of at-best-sideways movement in the economy, the U.S. dollar still managed to lose more than 10 percent of its value in that period. Calculated using the Bureau of Labor Statistics inflation calculator, $441.7 billion in 2015 dollars is the equivalent of $402.71 billion in 2008 dollars, which would imply that TARP actually netted a loss of nearly $24 billion
Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/395822/overselling-tarp-myth-15-billion-profit-matt-palumbo

You can't fix stupid.


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