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hostileuniverse
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 1
#22428076 - 10/24/15 04:28 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: We already have Medicare. Just extend it to 'Medicare for All'. That would be FAR cheaper than giant for profit insurance companies.
I'm more worried about quality of care, cheaper doesnt mean better, I'd rather pay $40 bucks for a premium steak than 10 for the "cheapest cut"
oh, and medical outsourcing is already happening, how is the govt gonna stop doctors from relocating and opening shop elsewhere? once again, the rich will get the best care and the peons will be left with what the govt "lets" us have, shortages, death panels, its all coming
http://freedomeden.blogspot.com/2009/08/ezekiel-emanuel-complete-lives-system.html
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Stonehenge
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Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 1
#22428240 - 10/24/15 05:04 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Fal, you have forgotten to answer hu's question. I'll repost it since I'm sure you just overlooked it.
"have you heard of the VA? thats single payer, its a fucking mess, thousands of soldiers dying on waiting lists for treatment
sound GOOD to you? "
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: hostileuniverse]
#22429941 - 10/24/15 10:48 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said: cheaper doesnt mean better, I'd rather pay $40 bucks for a premium steak than 10 for the "cheapest cut"
At least you've now agreed Medicare is more affordable.
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: oh, and medical outsourcing is already happening, how is the govt gonna stop doctors from relocating and opening shop elsewhere? once again, the rich will get the best care
As explained above, this is true for all insurance, private or public.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: Stonehenge]
#22430011 - 10/24/15 11:03 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: Fal, you have forgotten to answer hu's question. I'll repost it since I'm sure you just overlooked it.
"have you heard of the VA? thats single payer, its a fucking mess, thousands of soldiers dying on waiting lists for treatment
sound GOOD to you? "
Of course it's a mess; Republicans ensured it has a shortage of money: U.S. Senate Republicans block veterans' health bill on budget worry
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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hostileuniverse
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#22431876 - 10/25/15 01:04 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
Stonehenge said: Fal, you have forgotten to answer hu's question. I'll repost it since I'm sure you just overlooked it.
"have you heard of the VA? thats single payer, its a fucking mess, thousands of soldiers dying on waiting lists for treatment
sound GOOD to you? "
Of course it's a mess; Republicans ensured it has a shortage of money: U.S. Senate Republicans block veterans' health bill on budget worry
^^^well we should have known that was coming. its always the republicans fault,
And I never agreed Medicare was cheaper, and even if it was, at what cost? I don't like the idea of healthcare rationing, which is the ONLY way it would even be possible for it to be cheaper
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: hostileuniverse]
#22432206 - 10/25/15 02:40 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Republicans ensured it has a shortage of money: U.S. Senate Republicans block veterans' health bill on budget worry
^^^well we should have known that was coming. its always the republicans fault,
No, it's not "always the republicans fault". It's the fault of the party that created the problem in question; in this case the republicans ensured a shortage of funding. Can you make a rational argument as to how it's not their fault?
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: And I never agreed Medicare was cheaper, and even if it was, at what cost? I don't like the idea of healthcare rationing, which is the ONLY way it would even be possible for it to be cheaper
Rationing is not the only possible way to make it cheaper. A single payer system would have more power to negotiate costs. In fact, private insurers now ration care because drug makers (as one example) have such high costs.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: hostileuniverse]
#22432229 - 10/25/15 02:44 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: We already have Medicare. Just extend it to 'Medicare for All'. That would be FAR cheaper than giant for profit insurance companies.
I'm more worried about quality of care, cheaper doesnt mean better, I'd rather pay $40 bucks for a premium steak than 10 for the "cheapest cut"
oh, and medical outsourcing is already happening, how is the govt gonna stop doctors from relocating and opening shop elsewhere? once again, the rich will get the best care and the peons will be left with what the govt "lets" us have, shortages, death panels, its all coming
http://freedomeden.blogspot.com/2009/08/ezekiel-emanuel-complete-lives-system.html
With a single payer system you can still go get the premium steak, its just that now youre not forcing everyohe else who cant afford it to do the same
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Stonehenge
Alt Center

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#22432379 - 10/25/15 03:24 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Actually, it was obumble who keeps vetoing spending packages some of which contained the funds for veterans. Your constant defense of the goof is wearing thin. He has been in charge 7 years and the va is a mess but somehow its the pubs fault or maybe shrub? You only know the one song and you sing it constantly.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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hostileuniverse
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: Stonehenge]
#22432465 - 10/25/15 03:47 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: Actually, it was obumble who keeps vetoing spending packages some of which contained the funds for veterans. Your constant defense of the goof is wearing thin. He has been in charge 7 years and the va is a mess but somehow its the pubs fault or maybe shrub? You only know the one song and you sing it constantly.
It's all they have, just blame those evil republicans and the low info voters will eat it up!
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: Stonehenge]
#22432471 - 10/25/15 03:51 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: Actually, it was obumble who keeps vetoing spending packages some of which contained the funds for veterans.
Then why don't you link to your evidence that Obama vetoed funding for veteran's health? That would shut me up real quick. I gave you evidence that Republicans blocked it, and you neither refuted it, nor acknowledged it. You're in what Bill Maher refers to as the 'conservative bubble' - unwilling to accept reality.
Quote:
Stonehenge said: Your constant defense of the goof is wearing thin. He has been in charge 7 years and the va is a mess but somehow its the pubs fault or maybe shrub? You only know the one song and you sing it constantly.
No, I'll repeat what others have said many, many times, but you keep refusing to listen to:
Obama's not a spectacular president. If you just focus on the things he does bad, both sides will agree with you. But if you continue to make things up (like that he vetoed funding for veteran's health) we'll call you on it. Just because we don't like the guy doesn't mean we have the right to lie about him. There's so many truthful negative things about Obama that both sides can agree on. Why not focus on those?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: hostileuniverse]
#22432499 - 10/25/15 04:00 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said: It's all they have, just blame those evil republicans and the low info voters will eat it up!
No it's not we have. We have evidence that support our claims. I presented evidence that republicans voted to block a veterans' health bill.
Your response:
Quote:
we should have known that was coming. its always the republicans fault
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Golden Student
Human


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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: burgerbrain]
#22432505 - 10/25/15 04:02 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
burgerbrain said:
Quote:
paperbackwriter said:
Quote:
burgerbrain said: Cherry picking? LOL. Is that how you children debate now, puppetbackwriter? What's cherry picked about my OP? I posted the graph that had the most pertinent info.
I noticed you didn't answer the questions in my OP.
I'm not debating you. I'm debunking your figures.
And yes, you were cherry picking. You picked one figure out of nearly a dozen that seemed to support your conclusion and left out the context that explained why it doesn't.
LOL debunking my figures? You posted additional graphs- you didn't debunk anything, kiddo.
Do you know what a "Red herring" is, kid?
Gotta give some credit to the trolls for keeping it interesting.  I guess now we can all feel a little bit smarter about this whole thing.
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Stonehenge
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Loc: S.E.
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#22432621 - 10/25/15 04:32 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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>Obama's not a spectacular president
Lets start with the one thing you got right even though very understated. He has vetoed a ton of bills, all of which contained many things and veterans funding did come up a time or two among them. No point in digging it up, you will simply ignore it and harp on the fact pubs voted against one or two things. You are very predictable.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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hostileuniverse
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: Stonehenge]
#22432752 - 10/25/15 04:57 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: hostileuniverse]
#22433412 - 10/25/15 07:27 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: He has vetoed a ton of bills, all of which contained many things and veterans funding did come up a time or two among them. No point in digging it up, you will simply ignore it
No, I wouldn't ignore it. In fact, I already told you "why don't you link to your evidence that Obama vetoed funding for veteran's health? That would shut me up real quick."
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: The latest
http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/news03/obama-vetoes-612-billion-defense-bill-in-rebuke-to-gop-stefanik-calls-it-unacceptable-20151023&template=mwdt
Can't hold the VA responsible, it's supposed to be republicans fault!
http://freebeacon.com/national-security/obama-threatens-to-veto-va-accountability-act/
At least you're trying. The first link said nothing about the VA or how the bill would address VA shortages.
Your second link is about a bill that would allow the VA to fire people without adequate due process. I don't see the relevance to VA funding either.
A much more relevant bill regarding funding for the Veteran's Administration is H.R. 2029:
Obama Stands Up For Veterans By Vowing To Veto GOP Bill That Cut Benefits For 70,000 Vets
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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hostileuniverse
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#22433723 - 10/25/15 08:55 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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So you don't see anything wrong with thousands of soldiers dying waiting for treatment? Gotcha
Because that's what the second link is about, but hey let them fudge the books for bonuses, what the fuck does Obama care? Not his fucking problem, right?
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Stonehenge
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Posts: 14,850
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: hostileuniverse]
#22433762 - 10/25/15 09:05 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yeah, I'm really kind of surprised to see fal defend that one. A $600B budget and he didn't see anything in the article mentioning the va specifically so he doesn't believe it affects the va? The bill probably covered at least 100 major things and perhaps ten times that many minor things that some people would think were major. Its simply impossible to mention everything.
That's what I call dishonest debating. When you are just using a tactic to annoy the opposition rather than discuss the issues. Like constantly asking for more and more backup to everything and when you bring it, he doesn't care. So why did we go to the trouble of finding it for him when he didn't want it in the first place? Its done to harass and to divert attention from the fact his argument has gone to crap but he is still emotionally invested in it.
Lets put it like this, if we come up with the requested info, will you concede what we are saying is correct about the va and obumble? If not, its just another tactic.
Obumble has a sordid record of treating the military like shit. The va fiasco is just an ongoing example of that. Another thing obumble is famous for is hiding behind flunkies and pretending they are acting on their own rather than on his orders. In a generation or two we may see all the facts come out and they will rewrite history to say no one suspected a thing when it was actually discussed every day.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: hostileuniverse]
#22433888 - 10/25/15 09:41 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said: So you don't see anything wrong with thousands of soldiers dying waiting for treatment? Gotcha
Because that's what the second link is about, but hey let them fudge the books for bonuses, what the fuck does Obama care? Not his fucking problem, right?
No, that's NOT what the second link is about. Your second link is about a bill that would allow the VA to fire people without adequate due process. Veterans are waiting in line because of inadequate funding.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: Stonehenge]
#22433961 - 10/25/15 10:03 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: Yeah, I'm really kind of surprised to see fal defend that one. A $600B budget and he didn't see anything in the article mentioning the va specifically so he doesn't believe it affects the va? The bill probably covered at least 100 major things and perhaps ten times that many minor things that some people would think were major. Its simply impossible to mention everything.
There wasn't a single thing in that article about the VA, so why link to it? How about providing proof that is relative to what you are claiming?
Quote:
Stonehenge said: That's what I call dishonest debating. When you are just using a tactic to annoy the opposition rather than discuss the issues.
You just described your tactic to a T.
Quote:
Stonehenge said: Like constantly asking for more and more backup to everything and when you bring it, he doesn't care. So why did we go to the trouble of finding it for him when he didn't want it in the first place? Its done to harass and to divert attention from the fact his argument has gone to crap but he is still emotionally invested in it.
I'm asking for information that backs up your claims, not irrelevant articles that you hope I don't read. I'm wasting a lot of time reading your articles only to find they don't even address your points. If you think the article above addresses VA funding, then PLEASE copy the part that's relevant for us.
Quote:
Stonehenge said: Lets put it like this, if we come up with the requested info, will you concede what we are saying is correct about the va and obumble?
YES!!!
Quote:
Stonehenge said: Obumble has a sordid record of treating the military like shit. The va fiasco is just an ongoing example of that.
I just gave you evidence that he actually treats the military well. Can you provide actual evidence you are correct? And I mean relevant evidence, not a link that discusses some irrelevant topic, or just a broad statement without proof.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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burgerbrain
Freedom Lover



Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 962
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#22439347 - 10/27/15 09:08 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Easy.
‘Shameful’: GOP lawmaker rips Obama’s threat to veto veterans’ funding http://www.theblaze.com/blog/2015/04/29/shameful-gop-lawmaker-rips-obamas-threat-to-veto-veterans-funding/
PS.
Scandinavian Socialism: Dangers of the Welfare State
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