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burgerbrain
Freedom Lover



Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 962
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Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway?
#22348331 - 10/08/15 12:44 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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When asked what he means by "democratic socialism," presidential candidate Bernie Sanders typically points to the Nordic countries. In Sweden, Norway, Finland, and Denmark, education is provided for free, social insurance is unimaginably generous, and times are good. We should follow their example, he says. http://theweek.com/articles/570205/bernie-sanders-wants-more-like-norway-that-even-possible
Figure 4: Financial Net Wealth of Households
 http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171776_310463.pdf
Here's how Bernie will do it: Tax the poor Bernie Sanders: Let's Return to Tax Policy of "Radical Socialist Dwight D. Eisenhower" http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/bernie-sanders-lets-return-tax-policy-radical-socialist-dwight-d-eisenhower
Dwight D. Eisenhower January 20, 1953 – January 20, 1961

Why vote for Bernie again?
Edited by burgerbrain (10/08/15 12:51 AM)
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: burgerbrain] 1
#22348990 - 10/08/15 07:46 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Why vote for Bernie? Because "evil republicans"
The same goes for obamba, he said he wouldn't raise taxes on the middle class, raised them every chance he gets, and now he plans to hit retirees with a 55% increase in their Medicare premiums...
It's amazing people want to keep voting for these idiots...
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: burgerbrain]
#22349199 - 10/08/15 09:08 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
burgerbrain said: Figure 4: Financial Net Wealth of Households
 http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171776_310463.pdf
Cherry picking your own article.
Quote:
Differences in the net wealth of countries can arise for a number of reasons. They may be due to the importance placed on other assets over financial assets. This in turn may be reflected in the extent to which households participate in the financial markets. Finally, differences in social security systems across the countries may encourage some households to take out private pensions and life insurance.
And here's some more fun infographics!
Figure 1: Household Actual Disposable Income Per Head in 2011

Figure 2: Household Actual Disposable Income Per Head rankings over time (2005 and 2011)

Figure 3: Household Actual Consumption Per Head in 2011

Figure 4 you already posted. Figure 5 doesn't include Norway.
Figure 6: Harmonised Unemployment Rates in 2011

Figure 7 doesn't include Norway.
Figure 8: Real GDP Per Head for 2011

Figure 9 is an explanation of NNI. See the article for full explanation.
Figure 10: Real NNI Per Head for 2011

Figures 11 and 12 don't include Norway.
Figure 13: Gross Public Debt as a Percentage of GDP in 2011
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: hostileuniverse]
#22349214 - 10/08/15 09:11 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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^ thank you for doing what I've lost the patience for.
Also
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: Why vote for Bernie? Because "evil republicans"
If this was the case, liberals wouldn't be up in arms creating a civil war within the party against Hillary, Biden, or whatever other establishment crony they toss out.
I'm gonna call you out on every single non sequitur I see you make until you stop doing it, or until everyone is aware enough to ignore you.
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: The Ecstatic] 1
#22349230 - 10/08/15 09:16 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: Why vote for Bernie? Because "evil republicans"
I'm gonna call you out on every single non sequitur I see you make until you stop doing it, or until everyone is aware enough to ignore you.
Lol, he asked a question, I answered, we all know that's reall why libs will vote for anyone, besides a republican...
I fail to see the problem with answering questions with facts...
***insert slogan here
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burgerbrain
Freedom Lover



Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 962
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: paperbackwriter]
#22349331 - 10/08/15 09:43 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Cherry picking? LOL. Is that how you children debate now, puppetbackwriter? What's cherry picked about my OP? I posted the graph that had the most pertinent info.
I noticed you didn't answer the questions in my OP.
Edited by burgerbrain (10/08/15 09:59 AM)
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: burgerbrain] 1
#22349387 - 10/08/15 09:57 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
burgerbrain said: Cherry picking? LOL. Is that how you children debate now, puppetbackwriter? What's cherry picked about my OP? I posted the graph that had the most pertinent info.
I noticed you didn't answer the questions in my OP.
I'm not debating you. I'm debunking your figures.
And yes, you were cherry picking. You picked one figure out of nearly a dozen that seemed to support your conclusion and left out the context that explained why it doesn't.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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burgerbrain
Freedom Lover



Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 962
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: paperbackwriter]
#22349393 - 10/08/15 09:58 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said:
Quote:
burgerbrain said: Cherry picking? LOL. Is that how you children debate now, puppetbackwriter? What's cherry picked about my OP? I posted the graph that had the most pertinent info.
I noticed you didn't answer the questions in my OP.
I'm not debating you. I'm debunking your figures.
And yes, you were cherry picking. You picked one figure out of nearly a dozen that seemed to support your conclusion and left out the context that explained why it doesn't.
LOL debunking my figures? You posted additional graphs- you didn't debunk anything, kiddo.
Do you know what a "Red herring" is, kid? http://www.csun.edu/~dgw61315/fallacies.html
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,871
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: burgerbrain]
#22349395 - 10/08/15 09:59 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
burgerbrain said: What's cherry picked about my OP? I posted the graph that had the most pertinent info.
wait, what? you posted the one graph that seemed to support you position, and ignored the others that didn't. That is essentially the definition of cherry picking. The intellectual dishonesty involved in that process should be obvious to you. If you're gonna go that route, you would be better off to find an entire study that tends to agree with your position. At least then, people won't be able to come back at you with your own sources.
--------------------
Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
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burgerbrain
Freedom Lover



Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 962
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: ballsalsa]
#22349400 - 10/08/15 10:01 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said:
Quote:
burgerbrain said: What's cherry picked about my OP? I posted the graph that had the most pertinent info.
wait, what? you posted the one graph that seemed to support you position, and ignored the others that didn't. That is essentially the definition of cherry picking. The intellectual dishonesty involved in that process should be obvious to you. If you're gonna go that route, you would be better off to find an entire study that tends to agree with your position. At least then, people won't be able to come back at you with your own sources.
The other graphs support my position too, kiddo.
Why do you children love to ad-hominem instead of answer questions? http://www.csun.edu/~dgw61315/fallacies.html
Do YOU know what a "Red Herring" is, kiddo?
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,871
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: burgerbrain]
#22349423 - 10/08/15 10:09 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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yes i do. Contesting someone's information is not a red herring.
If you said: "why would anyone vote for bernie?" and i responded with: "why would anyone vote for jeb? we aren't supposed to have royalty in America! Besides, right-wing economic policies are what is wrong with this country!"
that would be a red herring
i could use a nice strawman too, like: "i would vote for bernie, because unlike you, i don't want america to devolve into a fuedal state"
--------------------
Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: burgerbrain] 1
#22349424 - 10/08/15 10:10 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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They don't support your position. Your position was Bernie is dumb for thinking we should be more like Norway. I posted every other graph in the study and it showed that Norway is either equal with us or doing better than us on a number of economic benchmarks. You picked one benchmark, left out the context, and basically said "See look! Norway is poor!"
Also would you please stop calling people kid, children, etc?
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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burgerbrain
Freedom Lover



Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 962
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: ballsalsa]
#22349430 - 10/08/15 10:11 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said: yes i do. Contesting someone's information is not a red herring.
If you said: "why would anyone vote for bernie?" and i responded with: "why would anyone vote for jeb? we aren't supposed to have royalty in America! Besides, right-wing economic policies are what is wrong with this country!"
that would be a red herring
i could use a nice strawman too, like: "i would vote for bernie, because unlike you, i don't want america to devolve into a fuedal state"
No, kiddo. This is a Red Herring: Red herring. This means exactly what you think it means: introducing irrelevant facts or arguments to distract from the question at hand
Exactly what you and puppetbackwriter have been doing in this thread.
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burgerbrain
Freedom Lover



Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 962
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: paperbackwriter]
#22349439 - 10/08/15 10:13 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said: They don't support your position. Your position was Bernie is dumb for thinking we should be more like Norway. I posted every other graph in the study and it showed that Norway is either equal with us or doing better than us on a number of economic benchmarks. You picked one benchmark, left out the context, and basically said "See look! Norway is poor!"
Also would you please stop calling people kid, children, etc?
You're a child that can't answer any questions but resorts to Red Herrings and Ad-Hominem. I posted the most important graph: Financial Net Wealth of Households - then you posted a graph: Real GDP Per Head
Can you tell me the difference between these two graphs, kid? Figure 4: Financial Net Wealth of Households Figure 8: Real GDP Per Head for 2011
Edited by burgerbrain (10/08/15 10:17 AM)
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,871
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: burgerbrain]
#22349447 - 10/08/15 10:14 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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so the majority of the article that YOU cited as a source is an irrelevent distraction from the question at hand?
now i am confused. confused as to how you could have reached that conclusion.
--------------------
Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
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burgerbrain
Freedom Lover



Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 962
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: ballsalsa]
#22349456 - 10/08/15 10:17 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said: so the majority of the article that YOU cited as a source is an irrelevent distraction from the question at hand?
now i am confused. confused as to how you could have reached that conclusion.
I noticed how you are confused most of the time, you still haven't answered the OP.
Do you know why a person would post just 1 graph from a study rather than the whole study? This is really what your argument is, more ad-hominem?
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: burgerbrain]
#22349464 - 10/08/15 10:18 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
burgerbrain said:
Quote:
paperbackwriter said: They don't support your position. Your position was Bernie is dumb for thinking we should be more like Norway. I posted every other graph in the study and it showed that Norway is either equal with us or doing better than us on a number of economic benchmarks. You picked one benchmark, left out the context, and basically said "See look! Norway is poor!"
Also would you please stop calling people kid, children, etc?
You're a child that can't answer any questions but resorts to Red Herrings and Ad-Hominem. I posted the most important graph: Average Household wealth - then you posted a graph: GDP per person
Can you tell me the difference between these two graphs, kid? Figure 4: Financial Net Wealth of Households Figure 8: Real GDP Per Head for 2011
You're funny. A Red Herring is what you did. You posted one graph and painted a picture that Norway sucks. Then you attacked me with Ad-Hominem (child, kiddo, etc.)
By the way, flaming is against the forum rules. I figured I'd ask nicely before reporting you. Oh well.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,369
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 1 hour, 5 minutes
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: hostileuniverse]
#22349467 - 10/08/15 10:19 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: Why vote for Bernie? Because "evil republicans"
I'm gonna call you out on every single non sequitur I see you make until you stop doing it, or until everyone is aware enough to ignore you.
Lol, he asked a question, I answered, we all know that's reall why libs will vote for anyone, besides a republican...
I fail to see the problem with answering questions with facts...
***insert slogan here
If the only goal was to beat the evil republicans then Bernie wouldn't even be in the race and all his supporters would be lining up behind Hillary.
But that's not the case, and that's obvious to almost everybody.
--------------------
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burgerbrain
Freedom Lover



Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 962
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: paperbackwriter]
#22349477 - 10/08/15 10:20 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said:
Quote:
burgerbrain said:
Quote:
paperbackwriter said: They don't support your position. Your position was Bernie is dumb for thinking we should be more like Norway. I posted every other graph in the study and it showed that Norway is either equal with us or doing better than us on a number of economic benchmarks. You picked one benchmark, left out the context, and basically said "See look! Norway is poor!"
Also would you please stop calling people kid, children, etc?
You're a child that can't answer any questions but resorts to Red Herrings and Ad-Hominem. I posted the most important graph: Average Household wealth - then you posted a graph: GDP per person
Can you tell me the difference between these two graphs, kid? Figure 4: Financial Net Wealth of Households GDP per person
You're funny. A Red Herring is what you did. You posted one graph and painted a picture that Norway sucks. Then you attacked me with Ad-Hominem (child, kiddo, etc.)
By the way, flaming is against the forum rules. I figured I'd ask nicely before reporting you. Oh well. 
Actually a Red Herring is what you did, kiddo.
"Red herring. This means exactly what you think it means: introducing irrelevant facts or arguments to distract from the question at hand" You introduced graphs like "GDP per person" which is not relevant.
When will you answer the OP questions, kiddo?
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: burgerbrain]
#22349494 - 10/08/15 10:25 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Sure. I'll vote for Bernie because you're one graph didn't prove shit and I didn't bother reading anything else you posted because your one graph was so far out of context that I didn't feel the need.
Red Herring, the rest of the graphs are relevant facts. What wasn't relevant was one graph without any context behind it.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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