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Invisibleenlightened seed
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if everything has a purpose....
    #22343251 - 10/06/15 10:26 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

than what might be the purpose of diseases,virus's, etc... are they for genetic modification and/or genetic engineering?


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: if everything has a purpose.... [Re: enlightened seed]
    #22343346 - 10/06/15 10:47 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Who said everything had a purpose?


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Invisibleenlightened seed
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Re: if everything has a purpose.... [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #22343360 - 10/06/15 10:53 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Who said everything had a purpose?




who said it doesn't?


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Invisibleenlightened seed
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Re: if everything has a purpose.... [Re: enlightened seed]
    #22343433 - 10/06/15 11:09 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

someone once told me that only the strong survive.  i still am not sure how to interpret that comment as it was out of the blue.  maybe with time i will understand?  maybe i already know what he meant...who knows?


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: if everything has a purpose.... [Re: enlightened seed]
    #22343437 - 10/06/15 11:09 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

enlightened seed said:
Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Who said everything had a purpose?




who said it doesn't?




I say it doesn't.  Purpose requires a purporter... The answer to your question is entirely relevant on which purporter you choose to appeal too.  Your question assumes (incorrectly) that there is some inherent purpose that exists outside of want or intent.

There is no purpose of a virus.  They exist as a function of evolution in their environment.  There is what they do and what they don't do.  Any purpose beyond that is your call to project onto them, your choice to purport.  If you want to think their "purpose" is to reproduce, that is your prerogative but that doesn't change or add anything to our picture of how they interact, where they came from and what they can/will do.  Genetic modification by taking over a cell is what they do, its how they reproduce.


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: if everything has a purpose.... [Re: enlightened seed]
    #22343451 - 10/06/15 11:14 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Well, I think that the fact that 'only the strong survive' is quite tangible and is easily observable in nature.

I am not sure why you mention this?

The fact that everything has a purpose is, for now at least, a very abstract concept.

You say 'if everything has a purpose, than what might be the purpose of diseases,virus's, etc?'

I could say, in response 'if nothing has a purpose, than what might be the purpose of diseases,virus's, etc?'

I'm sure we could go round in circles with this one. But what would be the point?


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Invisibleenlightened seed
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Re: if everything has a purpose.... [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #22343464 - 10/06/15 11:18 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Well, I think that the fact that 'only the strong survive' is quite tangible and is easily observable in nature.

I am not sure why you mention this?

The fact that everything has a purpose is, for now at least, a very abstract concept.

You say 'if everything has a purpose, than what might be the purpose of diseases,virus's, etc?'

I could say, in response 'if nothing has a purpose, than what might be the purpose of diseases,virus's, etc?'

I'm sure we could go round in circles with this one. But what would be the point?




just curious on your thoughts... if something does not have a purpose than why does it exist?


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: if everything has a purpose.... [Re: enlightened seed]
    #22343499 - 10/06/15 11:32 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

enlightened seed said:
just curious on your thoughts... if something does not have a purpose than why does it exist?



I wouldn't even pretend to know the answer to such a thing brother. The fact that anything exists at all (whether it has a purpose or not) blows my mind.

I think it would be the height of arrogance for any human to presume to know the answer to your question.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Invisibleenlightened seed
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Re: if everything has a purpose.... [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #22343520 - 10/06/15 11:36 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

answers to the questions my mind somehow comes up with is what i am seeking.  i am merely looking for answers, that is all.


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: if everything has a purpose.... [Re: enlightened seed]
    #22343532 - 10/06/15 11:40 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

enlightened seed said:
answers to the questions my mind somehow comes up with is what i am seeking.  i am merely looking for answers, that is all.



Yeah, good luck with that one! What makes you think that you're gonna find answers to questions which no human, in the course of 1.8 million years (give or take), has found?


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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InvisibleTropism
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Re: if everything has a purpose.... [Re: enlightened seed]
    #22343539 - 10/06/15 11:44 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

enlightened seed said:
just curious on your thoughts... if something does not have a purpose than why does it exist?





It's almost like the why is the excess. Why it happens doesn't really matter, the what where and when do.
That is what composes its existence. Sometimes I wonder if its only us that create the why.

Without someone to question, is there a question?
Is there a use for 'why?'


Edited by Tropism (10/06/15 11:49 PM)


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Invisibleenlightened seed
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Re: if everything has a purpose.... [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #22343564 - 10/06/15 11:51 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Quote:

enlightened seed said:
answers to the questions my mind somehow comes up with is what i am seeking.  i am merely looking for answers, that is all.



Yeah, good luck with that one! What makes you think that you're gonna find answers to questions which no human, in the course of 1.8 million years (give or take), has found?





it dose not hurt to try and get other peoples opinions.  i am not sure most(or a large majority) of people can think outside of the box so to speak.  one day someone will figure out the truth(and hopefully spread it.)


Edited by enlightened seed (10/06/15 11:54 PM)


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: if everything has a purpose.... [Re: Tropism]
    #22343596 - 10/07/15 12:00 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Thinking 'outside the box' is not limited to asking such unknowable (IMO) questions. How about thinking outside the box in regards to questioning the life that society has suggested we should live?

Surely, in terms of 'making people think' a far wiser path is contemplating what is here, in front of us, right now? As Trop says:

Quote:

Tropism said:
Why it happens doesn't really matter, the what where and when do.



One can always ask questions about God, spacetime, etc. But with a limited time on this planet, would it not be a more worthwhile use of this time to question how to be a better person, or be kinder to others, than to contemplate such abstract concepts?

The things of which you speak remind me of the kind of things I used to contemplate when I was 15 years old and stoned. IMO, they have little place or use.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Invisibleenlightened seed
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Re: if everything has a purpose.... [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #22343624 - 10/07/15 12:10 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Thinking 'outside the box' is not limited to asking such unknowable (IMO) questions. How about thinking outside the box in regards to questioning the life that society has suggested we should live?

Surely, in terms of 'making people think' a far wiser path is contemplating what is here, in front of us, right now? As Trop says:

Quote:

Tropism said:
Why it happens doesn't really matter, the what where and when do.



One can always ask questions about God, spacetime, etc. But with a limited time on this planet, would it not be a more worthwhile use of this time to question how to be a better person, or be kinder to others, than to contemplate such abstract concepts?

The things of which you speak remind me of the kind of things I used to contemplate when I was 15 years old and stoned. IMO, they have little place or use.




to each their own.  the truth is not for everyone.  sometimes it is just better to go along with what is referred to as society and play your part.


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: if everything has a purpose.... [Re: enlightened seed]
    #22343646 - 10/07/15 12:19 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

enlightened seed said:
to each their own.  the truth is not for everyone.  sometimes it is just better to go along with what is referred to as society and play your part.



Are you insinuating that I do not search for truth and 'go along with what is referred to as society', simply because I refuse to enter into your thought experiments?


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Invisibleenlightened seed
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Re: if everything has a purpose.... *DELETED* *DELETED* [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #22343663 - 10/07/15 12:24 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Post deleted by enlightened seed

Reason for deletion: did not want to ruffle anyone's feathers.



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Invisibleenlightened seed
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Re: if everything has a purpose.... [Re: enlightened seed]
    #22343670 - 10/07/15 12:26 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

i am not doing thought experiments, for one (i can not get my hands on the equipment) just seeing what people think.


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Offlinesprinkles
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Re: if everything has a purpose.... [Re: enlightened seed]
    #22343703 - 10/07/15 12:37 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

natural selection.  killing off the weak.


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InvisibleTropism
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Re: if everything has a purpose.... [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #22343718 - 10/07/15 12:46 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Thinking 'outside the box' is not limited to asking such unknowable (IMO) questions. How about thinking outside the box in regards to questioning the life that society has suggested we should live?

Surely, in terms of 'making people think' a far wiser path is contemplating what is here, in front of us, right now? As Trop says:

Quote:

Tropism said:
Why it happens doesn't really matter, the what where and when do.



One can always ask questions about God, spacetime, etc. But with a limited time on this planet, would it not be a more worthwhile use of this time to question how to be a better person, or be kinder to others, than to contemplate such abstract concepts?

The things of which you speak remind me of the kind of things I used to contemplate when I was 15 years old and stoned. IMO, they have little place or use.





I get grumpy really easily, then sometimes in reflection it occurs to me that I'm that grump in someone else's life. :sad:


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Invisibleenlightened seed
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Re: if everything has a purpose.... [Re: sprinkles]
    #22343722 - 10/07/15 12:48 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

sprinkles said:
natural selection.  killing off the weak.





what you said seems logical.  it happens in nature. it just so happens we (humans) are at the top if the food chain, or so i have been lead to believe.  not a day goes by that humans do not kill humans.  i guess it is just a part of life.


Edited by enlightened seed (10/07/15 12:49 AM)


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Invisibleenlightened seed
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Re: if everything has a purpose.... [Re: Tropism]
    #22343726 - 10/07/15 12:51 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Tropism said:
Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Thinking 'outside the box' is not limited to asking such unknowable (IMO) questions. How about thinking outside the box in regards to questioning the life that society has suggested we should live?

Surely, in terms of 'making people think' a far wiser path is contemplating what is here, in front of us, right now? As Trop says:

Quote:

Tropism said:
Why it happens doesn't really matter, the what where and when do.



One can always ask questions about God, spacetime, etc. But with a limited time on this planet, would it not be a more worthwhile use of this time to question how to be a better person, or be kinder to others, than to contemplate such abstract concepts?

The things of which you speak remind me of the kind of things I used to contemplate when I was 15 years old and stoned. IMO, they have little place or use.





I get grumpy really easily, then sometimes in reflection it occurs to me that I'm that grump in someone else's life. :sad:





it happens to the best of us.  try to realize, and be positive :thumbup:


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Offlinesprinkles
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Re: if everything has a purpose.... [Re: enlightened seed]
    #22343727 - 10/07/15 12:52 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

PPL=SHT


--------------------
welcome to my world http://www.shroomery.org/forums/postlist.php/Board/326


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Invisibleenlightened seed
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Re: if everything has a purpose.... [Re: sprinkles]
    #22343740 - 10/07/15 12:57 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

lol...what type of PPL=SHT ?


Edited by enlightened seed (10/07/15 01:02 AM)


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OfflineJaegar
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Re: if everything has a purpose.... [Re: Jokeshopbeard] * 1
    #22343782 - 10/07/15 01:18 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I wouldn't say the strong but more adaptable. Evolution supports adaption to the environment.


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Invisibleenlightened seed
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Re: if everything has a purpose.... [Re: Jaegar]
    #22343795 - 10/07/15 01:24 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

evolution i am not to sure of.  are monkeys really where humans come from?  i wonder what the first last name given to mankind was?


Edited by enlightened seed (10/07/15 01:44 AM)


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OfflineJaegar
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Re: if everything has a purpose.... [Re: enlightened seed]
    #22343822 - 10/07/15 01:38 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Start with A book on evolution. If your not a drama queen Richard Dawkins has some good releases.


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Invisibleenlightened seed
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Re: if everything has a purpose.... [Re: Jaegar]
    #22343833 - 10/07/15 01:47 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

i like books just not books of people with mental issues because i believe they are just their thoughts and or beliefs.  which 99% of the time are just what they are.


Edited by enlightened seed (10/07/15 01:56 AM)


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OfflineJaegar
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Re: if everything has a purpose.... [Re: enlightened seed]
    #22343835 - 10/07/15 01:48 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

If it's not to personal what was your level of schooling?


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Invisibleenlightened seed
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Re: if everything has a purpose.... [Re: Jaegar]
    #22343845 - 10/07/15 01:55 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Jaegar said:
If it's not to personal what was your level of schooling?





there is a lot more to education than school.  10th grade.  i did receive my g.e.d. though if that counts?


Edited by enlightened seed (10/07/15 02:21 AM)


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Invisibleenlightened seed
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Re: if everything has a purpose.... [Re: Jaegar]
    #22343863 - 10/07/15 02:10 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Jaegar said:
If it's not to personal what was your level of schooling?





what about yourself?


Edited by enlightened seed (10/07/15 02:23 AM)


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Invisibleenlightened seed
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Re: if everything has a purpose.... [Re: enlightened seed]
    #22343884 - 10/07/15 02:32 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

can evolution be proved? or are there just people who have put out scientific papers on the subject, to try to prove their point?


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Invisibleenlightened seed
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Re: if everything has a purpose.... [Re: enlightened seed]
    #22343889 - 10/07/15 02:35 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

mental disorders go way back, well ever since human beings.  sometimes those rearrange peoples thoughts.


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OfflineJaegar
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Re: if everything has a purpose.... [Re: enlightened seed]
    #22343893 - 10/07/15 02:37 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

This is not a slight but you may find it digestible. Evolution for Dummies book.


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Invisibleenlightened seed
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Re: if everything has a purpose.... [Re: Jaegar]
    #22343898 - 10/07/15 02:39 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Jaegar said:
This is not a slight but you may find it digestible. Evolution for Dummies book.





nah i have better things to do with my time. 

you forgot to answer my question(s).


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Re: if everything has a purpose.... [Re: DieCommie]
    #22345862 - 10/07/15 02:44 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

enlightened seed said:
Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Who said everything had a purpose?




who said it doesn't?




I say it doesn't.  Purpose requires a purporter... The answer to your question is entirely relevant on which purporter you choose to appeal too.  Your question assumes (incorrectly) that there is some inherent purpose that exists outside of want or intent.

There is no purpose of a virus.....




exactly a purporter or agent is implied by "purpose".
Also a game such as chess is played on a board. Or a card game at a table by a certain number of people, for a limited time, with rules--etc. in other words also implied by 'purpose' is a limited field in which it takes place - but the universe is infinite.
Also purpose depends for contrast upon it's opposite: 'randomness' which is difficult to define or prove.
So on numerous logical grounds 'purpose' is not the easy answer to understanding life or the world that it might appear to  be.


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Re: if everything has a purpose.... [Re: laughingdog]
    #22348235 - 10/08/15 12:03 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Hmm, im not sure bad things have a purpose per se, except that exactly what they are engineered for is indeed real..and we should take the necessary precautions;

what i think is that they can be understood..and part of that understanding leads to understanding their modus operandi..and then you might call their vehicle of existence..as a type of purpose..but to know if they have a greater purpose like to do with evolution..or humanity defeating disease all together, I cant say.

Though of course its obvious that humans will likely eventually have the technology to wipe out all diseases..and maybe even bad manors, thoughts, and suffering all together.

I have a thought experiment..say that i am creating the world..and at the very first instance of time..i imagined something bad...and then i had a choice..to essentially try to not focus on it..or actually bring it out into the open..with the final goal of defeating it all together..so that with the ideal and drive..there would never be a future for something bad ever again..

but the very openness of our minds and freewill..essentially allows a concentration of bad thoughts..and focusing on negative things in general..

If i ultimately had that choice i would include the dark side immediately..knowing that it once in the far future it would never pop out of secret or hiding ever again..

So i think we are bout 76% finished this task..doesnt really matter about a thought experiment..but that we will extinguish this idea of suffering or badness in general..


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Re: if everything has a purpose.... [Re: enlightened seed]
    #22351896 - 10/08/15 08:38 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Good question, based on your assumption, which I agree with btw. Humans may discover 'uses' for microbial lifeforms that aid human agendas, but the utility of such things does not disclose their ultimate purpose[s]. The ultimate purpose of anything is known by, or is an inherent structure in, the Author of the Idea. From a Platonic philosophical or even a biblical theological perspective, the teleological (end point) purpose of any given phenomenon must remain a mystery to non-ultimate (or non-Absolute) causes - like us. We too are 'products' of an (Aristotelian) Absolute Cause. The Dependent Arisings of Buddhism suggests an interconnectivity of phenomena that is so extensive throughout space and time that the ordinary human mind could not possibly grok all of it in a moment. This would require a Buddha's Mind in that idiom. So, asking your question requires a much more expanded mind to Know the answer, and such an answer would have so many vectors of connectivity to so many other aspects of reality, that there could be no communication of an 'answer' in linear speech. There could be no prosaic statement in any normal format that we might use for simple specific inquiries. :shrug:


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Re: if everything has a purpose.... [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #22352261 - 10/08/15 09:57 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Lol..many vectors..but they are called vectors with the understanding of a line which is pointed or slanted in a position..like being of a certain degree compared with an X=0, y=0 Cartesian plane..so maybe this is too much for the load of the philosophers in the room..but a vector may not be connected to anything except that at the beginning and end there may be a specific space that i call Minding the gap..which is that it necessarily needs nothing at all..before it connects to say the 0 point..from say an X=1 and Y=1, then drawing that line/vector..towards the points X=5 and Y=5..The deep connection from Y,X=1 to X,Y=0 Is a complete square of emptiness..and now the question is that the connection is either a negative number which symbolizes the lack, but virtual degree to which it is naturally connected which is that it has either a lack or an emptiness..but there is something so perfect about the emptiness that the point doesnt need to be at 0,0..but does indeed make a perfect connection..So we indeed see the mind the gap principle..

Same with the higher point at 5,5 which is necessarily connected to the visible point of 6,6 but has only a relation in an empty square..I think we are hinging on finding either some dark matter..or maybe some type of pure energy that only exists as empty potential..

Each of these things as complete ideas..or separate parts is indeed Called Daat in kabbalah!

The meaning of this is that from the Fall..all the way until total salvation..that each individual moment..which came from the One absolute..in each piece is call a Daat..or a Dot so to speak..that we can label anything that happens..might or maybe not would be classified as dots..but the idea that a thing exists..in perfect completion, and meaning for example..is the sorting that the mind of Daat prefers to use..

And there in from which is called the separation is a simple maneuver of sorting a thing so it is now in a correct space..and to do this with your mind brings peace..which is likely the end Goal of both separation and Daat.


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Re: if everything has a purpose.... [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #22352489 - 10/08/15 11:15 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

well thanks for your input on the subject as i do believe that their is a purpose for everything.  whether it be positive or negative i am not sure of so it is still something i sometimes wonder of :strokebeard:


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Re: if everything has a purpose.... [Re: enlightened seed]
    #22355870 - 10/09/15 06:59 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I figured it out..we can always adapt to our environment and change our minds to a certain extent..but the memes that exist and people keep ALWAYS lend meaning to their lives..to a certain extent..most of the people who are called Self actualized..are usually very high on religion and spirituality..It may be as easy as saying that since they believe in something higher..that the limits for what higher is compared to what is even higher..can plant a seed of infinity..and that is some very high tech equality and singality; So that the foremost needs and wants are fulfilled makes life have more meaning than if your a struggling hippy or artist for example..but even those ideals can make people happy..because they are quote true to their self..

So the meaning of life as an accepted node of logic..information or memetic..we would always find that we usually pick the ones that we can understand..and the ones that make us happy..

So i know it is subjective..that what makes us happy is the meaning of life..

But as an objective..it is usually the people who feel called to do something..and their in fulfill their role, purpose and function on Planet Earth; Pleasing each other can also give one pleasure..the fulfillment i talk about could probably be the pleasure principle..

Imagine that you get 100% meaningful and real pleasure in your life..for the rest of existence..and then you could definitely say that life has meaning..unless your an evil nihilist..Without a love interest in the world..:syringe:

So i think that love is a definite key..but so is any other positive experience...expression, or emotion!


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