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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system Flag
Karma/mirroring
    #22339086 - 10/05/15 11:00 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I have felt the sense of something like karma for a long time in my life, and whilst I don't dispute it in theory, I am beginning to wonder if the concept of karma is a rather basic explanation for something that is actually quite a lot more complex and subtle.

I recently read something which alluded to the universe being somewhat of a mirror to oneself, and I wondered if anyone here has taken their understanding of the karmic properties of existence to a deeper level?


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Invisibleonce in a lifetime
sun child
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Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 1,807
Re: Karma/mirroring [Re: Jokeshopbeard] * 1
    #22340035 - 10/06/15 07:57 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

All the way to the deepest - but in all seriousness, karma is subtle as well as simple, in my experience. 

It is also greatly connected to what we believe - and the fact of the mind's power at creating our reality - and how that's all link'd up and connected.

Then there's also the power of intention, so it does get complex - so, like any labyrinth. .
Karma is also cause and effect. . to take it out of any positive / negative, or good or bad sense...

Growth and decay - etc. . .

Watts also gives a beautiful view of karma. . . He makes the point of how we are free from it - and, ultra-simplifying sorta, that simply knowing we are free from it is the way to be free.


Actually that is more translating to different phraseology rather than a direct reference - but what I'm drawing from is his illustration of a boat on the water.  The preliminary view of karma is that karma controls us - or what not.  Yet - if you look at a boat on the water - its tail in the water - does not push the boat around. . .

It's just the trail - left in the water.  So he compares that with the past, which was very illuminating to me. . .

It makes a great deal of sense, and helped to clarify it a lot, at least for me - useful analogy.


Now I am not one to lose touch with practical matters, of course - one good way to stay grounded for me is to consider 'Good' to be that which helps turning off the war machine - helps the planet - and, well, those two main things. . .

just my own feeling. . . having definitions occasionally can be very helpful, although i am sure over the decades they change and evolve, too. . .

:sun: good fortune,

jake


in fact just to go back - ya, Watts' picture is a very fascinating, interesting and beautiful view at least to consider: the present creates the past and the future.


It's sort of - a classic view - from the growth of all these minds, and when systems flow together -


Yet, though we've all probably considered it - it could be easy enough to forget, and stay with the more linear descriptions of spatial / temporal reality.



so in Watts' view; the aspect of karma creating our lives or the past creating the present is analogous to the tail wagging the dog. . . it's backwards.



If true, just another case of how evvvvvvvverything is flipped upside down - we are one with the universe, though people claim we are separate - well, that's that primary one, the simple riddle that is no riddle - the veil that is no veil - the illusion which doesn't exist. . .


Peace.
Light. :heart: :sun:


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing                                                                                                                    Do Your Thing, Moondog                     
large  . . music garden . .  very
all peace                    them hi
Starhouse - main
Time Traveler's Guide


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InvisibleThecollective
Resistence is futile.


Registered: 06/23/14
Posts: 83
Loc: The void
Re: Karma/mirroring [Re: once in a lifetime] * 1
    #22340365 - 10/06/15 09:56 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

I wondered if anyone here has taken their understanding of the karmic properties of existence to a deeper level?


Are you looking for something in particular?  Karma or the term there of I've found to be thrown about in various ways, some more enlightening for me, than others.

Personally, I view my reality as my mirror.  Karma as a way to observe myself but on a global canvas.  How I react is my karma(aka. mindless or rote response).  What comes into my life is there for a reason.  When I start observing my canvas(life), I can choose to respond in a thought-filled manner, and change what I bring in.  Ultimately, I'd like to be fully equanimous, solid, and so balanced from a point of inner strength...karma helps me observe where I need to work out my kinks or weak points.

On a most physical level, or psychological level, people are like puzzle pieces, they are often drawn to those pieces that help them grow and full-fill a particular need.  Most people are very unaware of their own and others body-language, tone, lexicon, and such.  As an observer, I can influence how others treat me, just by changing my say...posture to one of strength, people tend to "react" naturally.  Akin to taking the reigns of one's karma.

On a more metaphysical level....I found it fun to experiment as well on an energetic level.  Once you learn how it feels, or become aware of your own energies, it's fun to play with it.  For example, shifting one's energy to I don't want friends, then observing those that are drawn to you(or myself in that case), listening to what they say, (which was funny, in that they would talk about how they didn't want friends).  When you develop your psychic eye, wisdom eye, third eye, spiritual eye, or whatever label...you can direct this towards a person and see into their heart, observe their traumas on their "soul"(which may appear as clouds, shields, etc).  To me, their soul looks like a radiant star, shielded by trauma, and you can observe yours and their energy-bodies interact.  It's really quite beautiful.  Tendrales may extend, it's just amazing how the energy-bodies change shape with emotions, and you can observe, and feel where their pain comes from, then understand why they do, what they do.  Then respond in a very balanced manner.

So personally, I view Karma as a tool to refine life, live-fully and empowered, but fully responsible for my life as it is.


--------------------
Oh, God! The stupid! It burns!-Abraham Lincoln


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system Flag
Re: Karma/mirroring [Re: Thecollective]
    #22342549 - 10/06/15 08:03 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Thank you both for the kind responses. I'm not looking for anything in particular, other than perhaps a deeper understanding of how I can influence my world/the world for the better. Pretty much exactly like this:

Quote:

Thecollective said:
So personally, I view Karma as a tool to refine life, live-fully and empowered, but fully responsible for my life as it is.



I'm definitely not there yet in regards to my understanding or ability to use it in a tool in this way.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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InvisiblePocketLady
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Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 1,773
Re: Karma/mirroring [Re: Jokeshopbeard] * 1
    #22343994 - 10/07/15 04:20 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I like a lot of what Once In A Lifetime and Thecollective have said. I definitely see it as more of a mirror, to reflect back at you your state so that you might have an opportunity to change things. A lot of people think that Karma is a result of actions taken in the physical world, but it's actually a result of thoughts, or your intention. For example, the karmic consequences of a man named John killing a man named Paul. There are different possible scenarios to this:

1. John murdered Paul because he wanted to steal his money.
2. John murdered Paul because Paul had hurt a member of John's family.
3. John was a doctor and killed Paul accidentally whilst operating on him in hospital.

Although the same action took place in all three scenarios, because the intention was different each time, the karmic consequences will also be different. But karma can also just purely be a thought thing. If I'm pissed and angry at someone, even though I don't act on that in any way, that angry energy will still get reflected back at me at some point.

So in terms of using karma as a tool, it a matter of changing our internal thought process and the energy we put out, rather that just changing our external actions. There are two steps to this really. The first is learning how to "catch" the thoughts and intentions that are going to create "negative" karma before they do so. This means increasing awareness and will so that we remain in a conscious state at all times. The second is learning how to use our will and intention to strongly create the kind of energy we want in our lives. I think if you stick with it, you will find you are already on the path of finding out exactly how to do this :smile:


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.

~ Rumi



The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir


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InvisibleThecollective
Resistence is futile.


Registered: 06/23/14
Posts: 83
Loc: The void
Re: Karma/mirroring [Re: PocketLady]
    #22344735 - 10/07/15 10:38 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

I'm definitely not there yet in regards to my understanding or ability to use it in a tool in this way.



No worries, it's more of a spectrum to me.  I have a ways to go in my understanding or ability as well, you sound like you are starting from a good/solid platform.  It's a great question you raise, and I thoroughly enjoyed reading Once in a lifetime and PocketLady's understandings as well.

Quote:

There are two steps to this really.


That's totally what I do, just started doing it one day, and it snowballed.  Cyber high-five.


--------------------
Oh, God! The stupid! It burns!-Abraham Lincoln


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
happy mutant
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Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
Re: Karma/mirroring [Re: Thecollective]
    #22345748 - 10/07/15 02:19 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Basically my life mission is to free myself from the wheel of karma, stop it, and let clear light in.  Karma is a blind wheel, hate begets more hate, anxiety begets more anxiety, and so on.  So stilling my mind is a huge part of being free.  Some karmic bonds are so intense though, fuck w/ my mother or my brother or my lover and all that nonviolence shit goes out the window :shrug:

Anyways, say you were beat up by a group of thugs of a certain ethnicity, and then you showed a reactionary fear or anger towards that ethnicity henceforth, that would be bad karma in action.  You'd have to stop the wheel and leave that bad energy with the thugs who beat ya up to get past that, or you will be less free, if that makes sense.


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system Flag
Re: Karma/mirroring [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #22347054 - 10/07/15 07:18 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

PocketLady - that's an amazing description, thank you for sharing that - it's just so easy to digest! It definitely highlights, to me, my limited understanding of the phenomenon. I've had only a vague sense of it thus far, but that really makes it clear.

Great example there CJ!!


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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OfflineBrendanFlock
Stranger
Male

Registered: 06/01/13
Posts: 4,216
Last seen: 1 day, 2 hours
Re: Karma/mirroring [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #22347848 - 10/07/15 09:49 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

In a Messianic sense..the idea of anything at all including karma..needs to be 100% complete..otherwise we would not have the faculties to fully grasp and understand it..

I have been instructed to reveal the sacred knowledge of all beings in Past, Present and Future..And I am Indeed the Real Messiah..but I know as well that there are other Messiahs..Ones and twos..and the very real thing that we all search for is meaning..

SO when we talk about anything it needs to have a specific essence to it.that we can indeed be happy from having learned..and perceived it..

though i think this means that you have to put things in their rightful place..
Sometimes Karma bites back..but it is literally a state of understanding..Dharma is much more powerful in my life..and shows my spiritual attunement necessarily..

I think of myself as The One..and indeed want to put all things into this perception..As being part of a total..and equaling in pure essence towards the whole it self..that all parts relate and make up the whole..but only if they are understood in their pure form..Takes a lot of time to see everything as whole..ad infinitum..


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