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OfflineVariegated
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Re: Unmodified(no holes no poly) 54q Fruiting Chamber(off the shelf monotub) TEK [Re: beancake] * 2
    #24698537 - 10/09/17 11:31 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Worked as advertised..thanks Bod



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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Unmodified(no holes no poly) 54q Fruiting Chamber(off the shelf monotub) TEK [Re: Variegated]
    #24699963 - 10/10/17 04:31 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

:thumbup:


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Offlinebeancake
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Re: Unmodified(no holes no poly) 54q Fruiting Chamber(off the shelf monotub) TEK [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24701524 - 10/11/17 07:51 AM (6 years, 3 months ago)

bodhisatta,

Here are some pics from this morning. Noticed a green spot as well as some pins. I have done multiple searches for yellow spots (as well as variations of yellow contamination etc) and have just come up with yellow liquid concerns.

Thoughts on % colonized? Am I looking for % of substrate colonized (percentage of brown showing) and/or the myc on the grains rebounding after being shook and mixed?

No subjective qualities to help determine if too wet (all I have found is no puddles), just right, or too dry? It seems after mixing up tub initially myc rebounded quickly. I mistook your instructions to "check" on tub at least 2x/day as I should mist 2x. It seemed that everything sort of "melted" I backed off on the misting and started taking the lid off more, then the yellowing started.

Thanks.









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How terrible is wisdom that brings no profit to the wise?


Edited by beancake (10/11/17 08:06 AM)


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Offlinebeancake
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Re: Unmodified(no holes no poly) 54q Fruiting Chamber(off the shelf monotub) TEK [Re: beancake]
    #24704936 - 10/12/17 02:26 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)







Seems the Green is spreading.

My guess is that I over misted, which 'melted' or at least weakened the mycelium, exposing it to contamination, which it tried to fight off (thus the yellowing), but has failed in some areas.  I have posted this in the Contamination forum but have received no replies.

Is there anything I can do?  Apply H2O2 to affected areas? Dump tub?

Any direction or advice would be appreciated.

Thanks.
bc


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Offlinebeancake
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Re: Unmodified(no holes no poly) 54q Fruiting Chamber(off the shelf monotub) TEK [Re: beancake]
    #24707721 - 10/13/17 05:27 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

So last night in one tub I applied iodine to green areas, carefully with very sharp knife cut under affected area, then used a plastic baggie to remove. This has left some 'dents' in the top, making it less level. Not sure if I should try to fill these areas in with say verm or just see what happens? Excited to see my first pins growing and would be really bummed if I lost the whole tub.

On another tub, I just applied the iodine and left it. This morning the treated areas were green, as if the iodine melted the contaminant, staing the myc around. Not sure if this is good or bad. This evening treated areas look the same.

While using a light and magnifying glass to inspect I did not see any signs of moisture in the top layer so I am assuming that is too dry, I misted until I could see tiny droplets. Is it preferred to let get dry and then mist, or always keep somewhat moist? Do you ever touch to sense moisture?

I am sincerely looking for advice and direction, apologies for being a dumbass, dick, or ??? (not trying to be)

Again thank you for any help and guidance.


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How terrible is wisdom that brings no profit to the wise?


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Re: Unmodified(no holes no poly) 54q Fruiting Chamber(off the shelf monotub) TEK [Re: beancake]
    #24707725 - 10/13/17 05:31 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Dont try to decontaminate a contaminated tub you just fling mold around.
Don't try to salt, h2o2, iodine, bleach, cut.
If there is mold just toss it. Or dump it outside and hope for some salvage fruits

Take some better pictures. It doesn't look like mold. Just an unhappy surface and slightly bacterial


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OfflineSteevo
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Re: Unmodified(no holes no poly) 54q Fruiting Chamber(off the shelf monotub) TEK [Re: beancake]
    #24708657 - 10/14/17 05:13 AM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

beancake said:
So last night in one tub I applied iodine to green areas, carefully with very sharp knife cut under affected area, then used a plastic baggie to remove. This has left some 'dents' in the top, making it less level. Not sure if I should try to fill these areas in with say verm or just see what happens? Excited to see my first pins growing and would be really bummed if I lost the whole tub.

On another tub, I just applied the iodine and left it. This morning the treated areas were green, as if the iodine melted the contaminant, staing the myc around. Not sure if this is good or bad. This evening treated areas look the same.

While using a light and magnifying glass to inspect I did not see any signs of moisture in the top layer so I am assuming that is too dry, I misted until I could see tiny droplets. Is it preferred to let get dry and then mist, or always keep somewhat moist? Do you ever touch to sense moisture?

I am sincerely looking for advice and direction, apologies for being a dumbass, dick, or ??? (not trying to be)

Again thank you for any help and guidance.




:whathesaid: and check out this link Proper surface moisture


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Offlinebeancake
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Re: Unmodified(no holes no poly) 54q Fruiting Chamber(off the shelf monotub) TEK [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24710072 - 10/14/17 04:39 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks Bod!

Since I already tried to treat tubs, will see how it goes.

I think my mistakes were over misting and flipping lid during colonization. (my bad I missed the part about keeping closed during colonization) This weakened the myc opening it up to bacterial contamination. To confirm colonization is focused on surface colonization ignoring sides and bottom, looking to see that at least 80% of the surface is white/myc and no more than 20% brown/coir.

Thanks Steevo!

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23999053

A distillation:
1. Let mist gently fall down from far away.
2. Maintain beads of moisture constantly during colonization.
  Puddles=too much misting.
3. Initiate fruiting by letting dry between mists. (Do not let surface
  dry out which could kill myc) I take this to mean that seeing no
  droplets=dry. Letting dry surface myc and surface substrate completely
  dry out is bad.
4. Increase FAE once pins are in. *(Bod stops misting once pins are 1"
  and will bottom water if needed from here on out)
5. Avoid droplets on largers shrooms-can lead to bacterial contamination
  and aborts. (not sure if this means just the larger beads preferred by
  CBK or if all misting should be avoided)
6. If droplets do not dry up that is ok, stop misting until they do.

1. Colonization (80-100%) Lid Closed
2. Initiate Fruiting-Flip Lid Upside Down
3. Once Even Distribution of Pinset Rotate Lid 90 Degrees or Remove
(this was posted on CBK's TEK page 9)

I posted the above 'distillation' along with a collection of what I felt were the most pertinent quotes on the other tek page 9
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=24710303&page=0&vc=1#24710303


Edited by beancake (10/14/17 09:11 PM)


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Offlinetravishibachi
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Re: Unmodified(no holes no poly) 54q Fruiting Chamber(off the shelf monotub) TEK [Re: beancake]
    #24710100 - 10/14/17 04:54 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

I'm pretty sure bottom watering means pouring water in the gap between the substrate and the monotub so the water fills the mono and saturates the mycelium network. Once you pour enough water you'll have to gently press against the sub to keep it from floating up. Let it soak for maybe an hour or so and then use one hand to hold the bulk sub in place while your other hand tilts the mono and pours out the excess water. Fan afterwards to make sure there's no standing water on the surface. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


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Offlinebeancake
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Re: Unmodified(no holes no poly) 54q Fruiting Chamber(off the shelf monotub) TEK [Re: travishibachi]
    #24710586 - 10/14/17 09:10 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

That is what I was thinking travishibaschi, but on another thread Bod just said that he doesn't bottom water. As such I removed reference to it on post above

here is description by TheMadHatter420 of bottom water on another thread:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24710387#24710387
1. Add 1-2 ounces of water between tub and sub (sure amount depends on size of tub and dryness)
2. Let set a couple of hours
3. Pour out any water not absorbed



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Edited by beancake (10/14/17 10:22 PM)


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Re: Unmodified(no holes no poly) 54q Fruiting Chamber(off the shelf monotub) TEK [Re: beancake]
    #24710635 - 10/14/17 09:30 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

You could bottom water monotub substrates if you want.
Mine kind of gets bottom watered when i harvest. You are overthinking water to the max bean


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Re: Unmodified(no holes no poly) 54q Fruiting Chamber(off the shelf monotub) TEK [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24710681 - 10/14/17 09:52 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

You don't bottom water unless you suspect the bulk will not be able to supply the pinset with enough water. If I am thinking I have potential to achieve in excess of 2500 wet grams first flush, I will consider bottom watering. At that point the water isn't added until the pinset is in and the substrate pulls away.

If you are not looking at pulling that much first flush and your pinset is in, bottom watering is going to hurt the yield.


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Offlinebeancake
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Re: Unmodified(no holes no poly) 54q Fruiting Chamber(off the shelf monotub) TEK [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #24710777 - 10/14/17 10:31 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

That's just it Bod I overthink everything too much and this is where it has lead me. Believe me, I know I am a pain in the ass, especially about getting caught up on details, but my experience is that times I don't mind my p's and q's and get specific I tend wish I had. Believe me, I am seeking some relief. (lucky you are not here as I break into Remedy by The Black Crowes


I thank you and everyone for your patience, and I hope to more than make up for it all.

OK so for the most part forget about bottom watering. (thanks Bod & Pasty)

So Bod when you just spray shit until it's where you want it, are you misting up over your tubs or just mist that shit in there?


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Edited by beancake (10/14/17 10:45 PM)


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Offlinebeancake
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Re: Unmodified(no holes no poly) 54q Fruiting Chamber(off the shelf monotub) TEK [Re: beancake]
    #24711040 - 10/15/17 02:04 AM (6 years, 3 months ago)

OK, so I have a butt load of side pins...chillax beancake chillax

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
I've often told people not to stress out over side pins.  In many cases, it's where they form best and usually turn into the nicest fruits.
RR




I just let them be and then harvest when I fill tub with water and all should be good?

Do not need to worry about them getting too much moisture? They look soaked growing pressed into the condensation on the tub.


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Offlinebeancake
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Re: Unmodified(no holes no poly) 54q Fruiting Chamber(off the shelf monotub) TEK [Re: beancake] * 1
    #24711082 - 10/15/17 03:12 AM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Imperative to read through OP and thread.
Thank you bodhisatta for this gift!
Please let me know ASAP of any errors and omissions.
Most of this was done with Copy & Paste, the use of 'I' = Bod

Bod’s Unmodified Monotub TEK
(Shroom Notes Version)


This TEK is specific to these tubs: Sterilite® Air Tight Storage Tote - Transparent with Aquarium Blue Latch 32 & 54Qt sizes.

I use both 54q tubs which can use the same amount of substrate as traditional monotubs (one brick(650gram) of coir + 4-7q of spawn) and the 32q tubs which I usually use 1/2 brick of coir and 2-4q spawn with)
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24077162#24077162

Mix spawn and coir inside tub. No casing required. Level surface without compressing matrix.


Put lid on normally, no need to latch, but cool if you do.

Expose to light 12 hours on 12 hours off from day 1.

Check surface daily to check progress of colonization and surface moisture. If needed mist.

When 50-90% colonized (Bod prefers 80%) turn lid upside down to initiate fruiting.

Check twice daily: do what you need to do to keep the surface from being dry until you get your pins to be about an inch then I don't mist again at all. you can also cut off FAE to keep it from drying if needed. I maybe bottom water if needed once the pins get to an inch and don't mist.

If the surface is dry, mist. If it dries too quick put the lid on more or more often

I've left them alone for days at a time and am gone 8-10 hours a day anyway. If I'm home ill put them next to open windows lids completely off mist 'em every hour or two as needed.

Can also turn lid 90 degrees to tub or remove completely, but will require additional monitoring and misting.

If you stack them I rotate them 90° to each other so the stack looks like an X from the top view.

You can use a light from the side. You'll have to play around to see what it takes in your situation to get surface conditions where they need to be. In the very dry months I often leave the lids mostly on all day regardless.

Harvesting: I just raise the substrate you can fill your tub with water if it doesn't have monotub holes. Then take a big kitchen knife and harvest the whole thing in a couple minutes. Drain the water out with a siphon or pour it carefully with your hand on the substrate
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24198162

Timetable, Yields
spawn run is 8-10 days. pins in 10-14 days. harvest in 15-21 days.(best case)

Also I'm sure you could just leave the top on upside down and do absolutely nothing till the first flush if you get your fan or lack thereof and light(convection) right.

Bod keeps central air at 68F, no fan, 68-72f is great. 65-75 is too

When done with grow: I just blast my tubs out with hot water then sani them let them drip dry then fill up.

Experience is key to monitoring and misting.


Below are quotes from the OP and the thread that beancake found the most helpful and where you can find some specifics. Of course refer back to OP for additional information and details


bodhisatta

THE LID, MISTING & MAINTENANCE

Flip the lid upside down.
This creates air gaps around the 4 lid locks which is important for allowing air exchange as well as substrate moisture regulation when you're away from home.

If you simply leave the lid upside down from ~80% colonization until you harvest the first flush chances are you will not need to mist at all or if you do you will only need to every other day or so. This method is extremely low maintenance. No fanning is required, mist if needed, which will be infrequently. If you can brush your teeth at home you have more than enough time to visit a tub once or twice during fruiting.

*seemingly advanced technique*
when you are at home you can either take the lid entirely off, rotate the lid 90degrees(1/4 turn), or move it so that their are much bigger air gaps. this allows for much more FAE, but you will have to maintain the surface moisture of your substrate by misting as needed.
This can be several times a day if you leave the lid off. If the lid is turned 1/4 turn you will likely only need to mist 1-2 time a day to maintain surface conditions. 

If you just leave the lid upside down you might only need to mist once a day to every other day or less, big difference.
*end advanced method*

If you decide to leave the lid just upside down the whole time it will be more set and forget and require little to no maintenance at the expense of a little less FAE.

As said above you may have to mist twice a day or once every few days. I average it out to every other day or so to keep the surface looking perfect during most times of the year.

I generally will flip the lid over as the substrate nears full colonization or anywhere from 50-90% colonization, generally I aim for 80% colonization. I am putting the tub into "fruiting conditions" a little bit before full colonization and this confuses a lot of people.
The more ajar you have the lid the more you will have to babysit and mist, the more the lid is just upside down and on top the less you will have to fuck with it.

surface conditions are very important. You can't simply whip one of these together and expect it to work with no experience, no eye for things, no mycologist's green thumb.

Skill plays a much of a roll as methods. You also need to be able to produce clean spawn and determine conditions.

When I was home I mist once a day when having the lid off

rarely mist at all

Yes but fae is an invisible thing it just happens by itself. Just having the lid upside down gets you enough FAE. You can have more fae if you move the lid partially off but you may need to mist or mist more if you have the lid more off
Walls only set during colonization or if I mist them. If you have the lid half off the walls will dry up in a less than an hour if they had any water on them.

If the surface is dry mist. If it dries to quick put the lid on more or more often

If you stack them I rotate them 90° to each other so the stack looks like an X from the top view.
You can use a light from the side. You'll have to play around to see what it takes in your situation to get surface conditions where they need to be. In the very dry months I often leave the lids mostly on all day regardless.

I've left them alone for days at a time and am gone 8-10 hours a day anyway.
If I'm home ill put them next to open windows lids completely off mist em every hour or two as needed.

Maintenance is really up to you. But most of the time I set em so it's worry free no maintenance mode.

Every hour? I mist like 3-5 times ever if I just flip the lid
and if I do the sideways lid thing it will get a misting that day

You will have to adjust as necessary to get everything just right so the surface does not dry out in between the times you're able to visit your grow.

I brush my teeth twice a day so I can handle looking at my tubs once or twice a day. Often times there needs be no adjustment at all, and every other day on average a misting.

I put colonizing tubs on the top of the stack since heat rises they'll stay perhaps a bit warmer than the rest.

No fan [in room] but central air is running periodically

Air movement is fine but maybe you have to mist three times a week instead of one of two.

LIGHTING

The light on the top is a 26W 6500K spiral florescent and provides a minimal amount of heat which aids in convection. Sometimes I use one light like this per tub.

you can use tube fluorescent lights for multiple tubs. There's far more than one correct way to arrive at great results.

I have more tubs than lights I find that using 1000-1500 lumens per tub in lighting works well. With the bulbs being 1-2 feet away.

You can use lighting from the sides then. Florescent T8 4 foot long tubes work well
The Spectralux 901616 4 ft. - 32 Watt - T8 - 6500K - 2900 Lumens - High Output bulb works well in a appropriate fixture. You don't need the exact same lighting setup but you want florescent and 6500k and about 800-1200 lumens per tub at a distance of less than 2 feet or when using a single tub I just put the single CFL light in a reflector lamp on top as shown already.

I do 12/12 lighting. Sometimes it's 24 on sometimes 24 off sometimes it's 18/6 but try to do 12/12 or get a timer

Right now I have more tubs than I do lights so I'm lighting some of them from the side and rotating the tubs every other day or so

RELATIVE HUMIDITY

I fruit these just fine in 10-20% RH indoors so I suggest skipping the casing layer, but some people need have their ways. Do what works for you always.

if you're getting static shocks in your room it's too dry, yes I would run a humidifier for sure, leave it as far from the tubs as possible like 3 meters or more. same with the heater. and point them away from the tubs.

alternatively you could buy a warm mist humidifier and see if that helps any some of them have 16 hour run times on a full tank of water. they work by kind of boiling the water so they heat the room a little bit as well as humidify it.

CASING

I almost never use a casing layer myself, On occasion I will use a top layer of coir 1/8-1/4 inch thick. With varieties like PE that take a bit longer to pin this can aid some people in keeping conditions good. The top layer of coir is more of a pesudocasing

most of the time I opt to just go with straight up mixed spawn+substrate with no top layer at all (grains showing on the surface)

LINER

When spawning I have in the past used a trash bag as a liner. I mixed in the trash bag and then put into the tub. and then pushed it flush to the corners and tried to make the surface as level as possible
you should give good attention to making your substrate surface level.

Currently I completely avoid use of a liner at all period. If you look at my harvest TEK you'll see I get no side pins even without the use of a liner.

Using a liner is a crutch to help with side pinning, side pins can be avoided by proper surface conditions and a nice flat even level surface. If you chose to use a liner a clear one works just fine, it works by preventing a micro-climate at the sides, light has nothing to do with side pins.

TEMPERATURE

68-72f is great. 65-75 is too.
I'm usually between 18-20c
I'm always at room temp. or within a few degrees. 20C is "room temp" but 66-72F is most peoples room temp. and that's just fine.


sgfccchamber

I don't use holes in my tubs anymore.  I leave the lid cracked about a half an inch during the day, and close it up at night.  When I say I "leave the lid cracked" I mean that instead of putting the lid on the tub so it's closed, I move the lid off center by about a half an inch.

The way my lighting is set up, is the bulb above each tub is about 6 inches away.  This creates warmer air inside the tub than outside the tub, which in turn creates convection currents within the tub.  The warmer air exits through the 1/2" opening on one side, and as it exits, pulls fresh air in through the 1/2" opening on the opposite site.  So during the day it gets, more or less, constant fresh air while still maintaining a very high RH (RH is controlled by the size of the gap created by having the lid offcenter...which I can easily make larger or smaller by simply moving the lid closer to or farther from being completely closed).

I've stopped modifying my tubs for a couple of reasons, the first being that once I've modified them with holes and whatever else, they become kind of single purpose, in that I can't really use them as regular tubs anymore for things like storage.  Second, they look weird as hell and are hard to explain to people asking why I've got tubs with holes all over the place.  Third, I've found great success not putting holes in them...in fact, much more success than I had while putting holes in them.  Fourth, moving a lid back and forth is a lot easier than messing with "polyfill density".  What I mean is, it's hard to accurately measure from one grow to the next "how dense the polyfill was" the last time when you had a good grow.  The offcenter lid method is easily measurable...in that you literally measure how far from centered the lid is, and it's easily repeatable.

I give a good fanning just before I seal the tubs up at night.  I mist whenever I see that things are dry or on their way to approaching being dry.


Edited by beancake (10/15/17 07:16 AM)


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Unmodified(no holes no poly) 54q Fruiting Chamber(off the shelf monotub) TEK [Re: beancake]
    #24711468 - 10/15/17 09:59 AM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Yep looks like you pasted part of the OP lol.


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Offlinebeancake
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Re: Unmodified(no holes no poly) 54q Fruiting Chamber(off the shelf monotub) TEK [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24711532 - 10/15/17 10:28 AM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Now I have the TEK basics fit onto one page that I can print out. Hopes this would be of help to other noobs.

Based on my mistakes and many of the questions in the thread seems other noobs could benefit.


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Edited by beancake (10/15/17 10:30 AM)


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Re: Unmodified(no holes no poly) 54q Fruiting Chamber(off the shelf monotub) TEK [Re: beancake]
    #24711624 - 10/15/17 10:58 AM (6 years, 3 months ago)

:thumbup:
Im just giving you shit. You're very analytical and overthinking. Thats fine I'm very similar myself


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Offlinebeancake
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Re: Unmodified(no holes no poly) 54q Fruiting Chamber(off the shelf monotub) TEK [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24714693 - 10/16/17 04:29 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

mmmmm shit make for good tomatoes and shrooms!

Well I don't want to contaminate your thread with pics of my hideous tubs, but for the morbidly curious:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24700495/fpart/2/vc/1#24700495

Harvested 2 today (29 grams) and looks like I will get a good number more. I am stoked! Has been over 20 years since my only fruity experience out in the desert, but what a long strange trip it has been since then. Believe me I am ready for some new explorations of mind and space. And to try again until I can float a canopy up and sit under the Bodhi tree.

Thank you Bodhisatta and everyone else for making this possible!!!


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Offlinebeancake
Weirdo

Registered: 08/12/17
Posts: 56
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
Re: Unmodified(no holes no poly) 54q Fruiting Chamber(off the shelf monotub) TEK [Re: beancake]
    #24721500 - 10/19/17 09:49 AM (6 years, 3 months ago)









I had already harvested earlier in the week. Even with all my mishaps still able to do alright.

Many pin size had caps open up, thoughts on if genetics, too much water, too little water, other?


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