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Psicomb



Registered: 01/13/18
Posts: 4,635
Loc: the womb
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Re: Unmodified(no holes no poly) 54q Fruiting Chamber(off the shelf monotub) TEK [Re: tcpjunkie]
#26009015 - 05/23/19 09:26 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Your tub looks pretty much fine tbh. Plus it is way too early to mist. If the tub is dry misting wont add any significant amount of water. Mist to enhance surface conditions
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When we constantly pull things apart trying to see how it works, we may end up with only an understanding of how to destroy something - nick sand
Edited by Psicomb (05/23/19 09:27 AM)
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Caps McGee
Grandaddy Smurfshack



Registered: 10/28/17
Posts: 14,357
Loc: ally known as ...
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Re: Unmodified(no holes no poly) 54q Fruiting Chamber(off the shelf monotub) TEK [Re: Psicomb]
#26009043 - 05/23/19 09:48 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Exactly Psi... Surface moisture will develop on it's own a day or two AFTER full colonization IME, once the mycelium has become semi-impermeable and holds beads of moisture on the surface... prior to full colonization, the uncolonized coir will simply resorb the excess moisture being produced... I don't even look at my tubs until day 6-8... nothing to see really 
If you decide/ it's concluded that you're too dry once fully colonized, you can hydrate with a short bottom water...
The fact it's not uber wet already is likely a good sign IMO
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thebrahmsian
Mush Enthusiast



Registered: 09/22/17
Posts: 24
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
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Re: Unmodified(no holes no poly) 54q Fruiting Chamber(off the shelf monotub) TEK [Re: Caps McGee]
#26009089 - 05/23/19 10:17 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Thank you so much, this has been very helpful and informative! I'm going to relax and let it do it's thing and so far so good...
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hipposhroom
King of Side Pins


Registered: 08/11/17
Posts: 161
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
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Re: Unmodified(no holes no poly) 54q Fruiting Chamber(off the shelf monotub) TEK [Re: thebrahmsian]
#26009125 - 05/23/19 10:51 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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I'm 21 days in now and no pins:

I had the lid upside down for the first two weeks, but the surface looked dry and it was taking some misting to keep any moisture on it. So I flipped the lid right side up and the surface has been much more moist. There's a lot of air flow in my room, so I'm thinking it was getting too dry from the start and that may be what's delaying things. But 21 days and no pins seems like a long time. Any thoughts?
Also, I'm leaving town for a week in a few days and I'm not sure how I should leave the tub. Lid down or lid up? I'm afraid it'll dry out with lid up, but it may not get enough FAE with lid down if it starts to pin while I'm away.
I was really hoping to have harvested before I leave, bit that's obviously not going to happen. Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks!
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GteachThe
Amateur Mycology Voyeur


Registered: 05/17/19
Posts: 17
Loc: Brazil
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
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Re: Unmodified(no holes no poly) 54q Fruiting Chamber(off the shelf monotub) TEK [Re: hipposhroom]
#26009233 - 05/23/19 11:53 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Everything going on !
Edited by GteachThe (05/23/19 11:57 AM)
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hearsay
Stranger

Registered: 03/06/19
Posts: 2
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Unmodified(no holes no poly) 54q Fruiting Chamber(off the shelf monotub) TEK [Re: GteachThe]
#26010036 - 05/23/19 07:30 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Folks, this here is my second grow of B+. My first grow was in 5 different shoeboxes, and my results were similar. With shoeboxes, I got mad side pinning I think primarily from moving them around so much and mishandling them. I'm still convinced I was overwatering them, despite those sidepins.
I've now got the tub Bod mentions in the tek. 5 qts grain spawn mixed up Damion5050s bucket tek style with coir/verm, I believe to the tune of a 1:1 ratio. I believe I got the field capacity that I at the time thought was correct: a few drops maybe when squeezed pretty hard. Now I see people saying in this and the surface conditions thread that they often hydrate on the dry side of field capacity, oops. I pseudocasted a little bit to just cover up the grain mostly, assuming I needed it living in the high desert with low RH (that may have been poor logic). Spawned on 5/4 and these pics are from 5/22. I've since harvested about 188 g of wet mushrooms whose veils were popping.
Like my shoebox grow, I'm getting a pretty weak pinset and never saw 100% colonization of the substrate or casing layer. It looks like my substrate is beginning to separate from one side of the bin and a few sidepins are forming. I also have some fuzzy feet on some of the fruits, and confusingly, I feel I've read this can be caused by overwatering.
My running assumption on my shoebox grow was that I was overwatering, leading to weak pinset and small fruits. I've dialed back my watering on this monotub, and switched to the finer mist of one of those pumping fertilizer bottles from the lawn section of the store. Now that I'm not disturbing the tub much, I assume that the new sidepinning is from underwatering. I left the lid flipped from the time of loading up the tub, and am doing 12/12 CFL lighting from above. I'm sometimes cracking my lid a bit more for increased FAE, but this may be foolish and desperate.
I'm misting lightly every day, trying to get those elusive waterdrops on the surface that I can't seem to get or see well with any lighting angle. I wasn't watering quite this much during the spawn run, maybe every other day. There is often water droplets on the side of the bins.
I suppose this is the learning curve and artistry that people speak of with monotubs? Keeping things sterile while getting the MS to agar, then 2x agar transfers, and then getting to the oats were all easy compared to this.
Anyone have any thoughts on what is going on with this substrate? Many thanks to the great contributions already.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Unmodified(no holes no poly) 54q Fruiting Chamber(off the shelf monotub) TEK [Re: hearsay]
#26010097 - 05/23/19 08:04 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
hipposhroom said: I'm 21 days in now and no pins:

I had the lid upside down for the first two weeks, but the surface looked dry and it was taking some misting to keep any moisture on it. So I flipped the lid right side up and the surface has been much more moist. There's a lot of air flow in my room, so I'm thinking it was getting too dry from the start and that may be what's delaying things. But 21 days and no pins seems like a long time. Any thoughts?
Also, I'm leaving town for a week in a few days and I'm not sure how I should leave the tub. Lid down or lid up? I'm afraid it'll dry out with lid up, but it may not get enough FAE with lid down if it starts to pin while I'm away.
I was really hoping to have harvested before I leave, bit that's obviously not going to happen. Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks!
Surface looks a little dry.
Quote:
hearsay said:

Folks, this here is my second grow of B+. My first grow was in 5 different shoeboxes, and my results were similar. With shoeboxes, I got mad side pinning I think primarily from moving them around so much and mishandling them. I'm still convinced I was overwatering them, despite those sidepins.
I've now got the tub Bod mentions in the tek. 5 qts grain spawn mixed up Damion5050s bucket tek style with coir/verm, I believe to the tune of a 1:1 ratio. I believe I got the field capacity that I at the time thought was correct: a few drops maybe when squeezed pretty hard. Now I see people saying in this and the surface conditions thread that they often hydrate on the dry side of field capacity, oops. I pseudocasted a little bit to just cover up the grain mostly, assuming I needed it living in the high desert with low RH (that may have been poor logic). Spawned on 5/4 and these pics are from 5/22. I've since harvested about 188 g of wet mushrooms whose veils were popping.
Like my shoebox grow, I'm getting a pretty weak pinset and never saw 100% colonization of the substrate or casing layer. It looks like my substrate is beginning to separate from one side of the bin and a few sidepins are forming. I also have some fuzzy feet on some of the fruits, and confusingly, I feel I've read this can be caused by overwatering.
My running assumption on my shoebox grow was that I was overwatering, leading to weak pinset and small fruits. I've dialed back my watering on this monotub, and switched to the finer mist of one of those pumping fertilizer bottles from the lawn section of the store. Now that I'm not disturbing the tub much, I assume that the new sidepinning is from underwatering. I left the lid flipped from the time of loading up the tub, and am doing 12/12 CFL lighting from above. I'm sometimes cracking my lid a bit more for increased FAE, but this may be foolish and desperate.
I'm misting lightly every day, trying to get those elusive waterdrops on the surface that I can't seem to get or see well with any lighting angle. I wasn't watering quite this much during the spawn run, maybe every other day. There is often water droplets on the side of the bins.
I suppose this is the learning curve and artistry that people speak of with monotubs? Keeping things sterile while getting the MS to agar, then 2x agar transfers, and then getting to the oats were all easy compared to this.
Anyone have any thoughts on what is going on with this substrate? Many thanks to the great contributions already.
And yours look a little on the wet side
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Caps McGee
Grandaddy Smurfshack



Registered: 10/28/17
Posts: 14,357
Loc: ally known as ...
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Re: Unmodified(no holes no poly) 54q Fruiting Chamber(off the shelf monotub) TEK [Re: hearsay]
#26010099 - 05/23/19 08:04 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Not really a bad pinset for MS... it's a little wet, and fruiting prior to full colonization could indicate the presence of bacteria... I wouldnt obsess about surface moisture, as evaporation can't occur if you mist obsessively... evaporation is a major pinning trigger... I'd close it and leave it alone (as in STOP MISTING)
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hearsay
Stranger

Registered: 03/06/19
Posts: 2
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Unmodified(no holes no poly) 54q Fruiting Chamber(off the shelf monotub) TEK [Re: Caps McGee]
#26010187 - 05/23/19 09:08 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Thanks for the quick responses. I'll lay off the misting for a couple of days and see if the pinset fills in a little more. Either way, the mushrooms I've harvested already looked better and larger than the ones in the shoeboxes.
I'm impressed that ya'll can determine substrate moisture by a couple of crappy photos. I look forward to getting there one day with a nice thick canopy. Maybe on the next grow using g2g if I'm lucky.
What causes the growth in little clusters like I've got? Were the surface conditions perfect in those little pockets, ie not too wet?
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GteachThe
Amateur Mycology Voyeur


Registered: 05/17/19
Posts: 17
Loc: Brazil
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
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Re: Unmodified(no holes no poly) 54q Fruiting Chamber(off the shelf monotub) TEK [Re: Caps McGee]
#26010735 - 05/24/19 08:31 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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First picking of the first flush of 20 qts Unmodified Mono (First try )


180 wet grs ! Sweet !
Thanks for this post from page 1 to 176 !
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kayo
Stranger



Registered: 01/16/18
Posts: 300
Loc: Ul'dah
Last seen: 4 years, 4 months
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Re: Unmodified(no holes no poly) 54q Fruiting Chamber(off the shelf monotub) TEK [Re: GteachThe]
#26010761 - 05/24/19 08:59 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Does it have to be those gasket lids? Do all lids require flipping? I wanted to go with a mini version of this tek on my current run only to find the bins I got have the wrong lid. Theyre more like the thin shoebox ones that fit loosely and only snaps on at the handles. In fact entire bin is closer to shoebox, just wider and slightly taller. Its still colonizing but there are dry condensation-free spots around the lid and especially around the corners.
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Caps McGee
Grandaddy Smurfshack



Registered: 10/28/17
Posts: 14,357
Loc: ally known as ...
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Re: Unmodified(no holes no poly) 54q Fruiting Chamber(off the shelf monotub) TEK [Re: hearsay]
#26010794 - 05/24/19 09:27 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
hearsay said: Thanks for the quick responses. I'll lay off the misting for a couple of days and see if the pinset fills in a little more. Either way, the mushrooms I've harvested already looked better and larger than the ones in the shoeboxes.
I'm impressed that ya'll can determine substrate moisture by a couple of crappy photos. I look forward to getting there one day with a nice thick canopy. Maybe on the next grow using g2g if I'm lucky.
What causes the growth in little clusters like I've got? Were the surface conditions perfect in those little pockets, ie not too wet?
Couple of days?
 I'd leave it alone until 2nd flush
You got clusters in pockets bc it's MS... clone the fastest finishing fruit from a cluster for better chances with a prolific fruiting culture... LAY OFF THE WATER... EXCESS MOISTURE IS THE ROOT OF MOST ISSUES IMO...
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Unmodified(no holes no poly) 54q Fruiting Chamber(off the shelf monotub) TEK [Re: kayo]
#26010860 - 05/24/19 10:30 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
kayo said: Does it have to be those gasket lids? Do all lids require flipping? I wanted to go with a mini version of this tek on my current run only to find the bins I got have the wrong lid. Theyre more like the thin shoebox ones that fit loosely and only snaps on at the handles. In fact entire bin is closer to shoebox, just wider and slightly taller. Its still colonizing but there are dry condensation-free spots around the lid and especially around the corners.

Quote:
Other tubs may work, if you're familiar with the principles of operation feel free to experiment and contribute. As always think outside the box, things can be a lot more simple and efficient often times.
I have not recommended any other tubs because I have not used any other ones. I'm sure that other kinds of tubs would work just fine. You'll want a clear lid at the very least. If you use a different tub I expect you to have enough experience to be able to judge your conditions accordingly, or if you don't have any experience to be willing to deal with your learning curve.
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shroomysnake
Snek

Registered: 09/23/17
Posts: 37
Last seen: 3 months, 15 days
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Re: Unmodified(no holes no poly) 54q Fruiting Chamber(off the shelf monotub) TEK [Re: bodhisatta]
#26012877 - 05/25/19 02:41 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Howdy. I've been giving the unmodified a try. Looking for some feedback on some surface pictures posted below. This tub has been cooking for at least 2 weeks, just starting to see pins. Poor pinset can be seen from the fact there are only a few poking through. Is the fact that there are grains not being fully consumed by mycelium an indication they might be bacterial? When preparing the coir for the tub I wrung handful out so it was at what I thought was field capacity. Over the last week or so I have been misting quite a bit because it seems like I was not seeing surface moisture develop on its own and substrate seemed dry.
  
Edited by shroomysnake (05/25/19 02:57 PM)
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Caps McGee
Grandaddy Smurfshack



Registered: 10/28/17
Posts: 14,357
Loc: ally known as ...
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Re: Unmodified(no holes no poly) 54q Fruiting Chamber(off the shelf monotub) TEK [Re: shroomysnake]
#26012950 - 05/25/19 03:24 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Seems like you're getting too much FAE, and over compensating by overmisting... surface moisture fails to accrue on it's own while you effectively soak your sub, and delay pinning (and increase favorability of conditions for contaminants)... I'd close it completely and walk away from it for 3-4 days...as difficult as it may be
If it is bacterial, misting is complicating things, misting is preventing evaporation (major pinning trigger)... misting is your problem... these are set and forget typically, forget it and see what it does!
Plus, 2 weeks is no time to be panicking...
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shroomysnake
Snek

Registered: 09/23/17
Posts: 37
Last seen: 3 months, 15 days
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Re: Unmodified(no holes no poly) 54q Fruiting Chamber(off the shelf monotub) TEK [Re: Caps McGee]
#26013602 - 05/26/19 12:49 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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One thing that I am not clear on is the tub cover ever flipped gasket side down? Seems like this would be needed if I am getting too much FAE? From reading Bod's guide it sounds as if it is always gasket side up, or turned sideways or lid off completely.
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rickyswamps
Bad Apple



Registered: 11/08/18
Posts: 1,192
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Re: Unmodified(no holes no poly) 54q Fruiting Chamber(off the shelf monotub) TEK [Re: shroomysnake]
#26013827 - 05/26/19 06:47 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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You can do it however you want. It really depends on your rooms RH. Adjust it to do what you want and observe.
In winter, sometimes I didn't flip it until the whole pinset was in. On rainy days in summer, I can almost take the lid off.
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hipposhroom
King of Side Pins


Registered: 08/11/17
Posts: 161
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
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Re: Unmodified(no holes no poly) 54q Fruiting Chamber(off the shelf monotub) TEK [Re: shroomysnake]
#26013967 - 05/26/19 09:14 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
shroomysnake said: One thing that I am not clear on is the tub cover ever flipped gasket side down? Seems like this would be needed if I am getting too much FAE? From reading Bod's guide it sounds as if it is always gasket side up, or turned sideways or lid off completely.
It's my first time with this, so don't take what I say too seriously, but I've had to put the lid right side down because of too much FAE. My surface was consistently too dry and this switch helped a lot. My room has lots of air flow and I think that's why I needed to do this.
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Alaskakat
Stranger
Registered: 05/18/19
Posts: 11
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Re: Unmodified(no holes no poly) 54q Fruiting Chamber(off the shelf monotub) TEK [Re: hipposhroom]
#26014030 - 05/26/19 09:56 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Thank you Bodhisatta. Great info. Is this the latest and greatest TEK? I just joined and realized many of the threads I was researching were years old. This seemed fairly recent.
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Psicomb



Registered: 01/13/18
Posts: 4,635
Loc: the womb
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Re: Unmodified(no holes no poly) 54q Fruiting Chamber(off the shelf monotub) TEK [Re: Alaskakat]
#26014120 - 05/26/19 10:44 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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While "greatest" is subjective, it works super well and holds up strong today against regular monotubs. Works even better than monos if you're not stacking any because you don't have to waste time cutting holes
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When we constantly pull things apart trying to see how it works, we may end up with only an understanding of how to destroy something - nick sand
Edited by Psicomb (05/26/19 10:47 AM)
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