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OfflineTrohnnyGum
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Grow room ideas
    #22336257 - 10/05/15 09:54 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Hello. I am wanting to grow some oysters and or shiitake, lion mane and the like. I am thinking of trying a walipini style grow room for the mushrooms. But I am wondering if having dirt aka clay walls of a walipini what with the high humidity for mushroom growth would invite too much mold? And so if it would invite too much mold would using stacked rock against the walls fix that? Any thoughts or ideas?


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OfflineGr0wer
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Re: Grow room ideas [Re: TrohnnyGum]
    #22336561 - 10/05/15 11:39 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Best case you would want something non pourous that's inert and east to clean or replace. However its not necessary. There are hundreds of grows in third world countries with thatch roofs and slat walls. Clay would be better than stone.


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InvisibleNakedmushroomguru
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Re: Grow room ideas [Re: TrohnnyGum]
    #22341097 - 10/06/15 01:30 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

For the dirt walls u could always lime plaster the walls . It's very durable and can be made smooth and then coated with epoxy so u could have a washable surface. Also like was just said there are a lot of farms in certain regions of the world that use dirt floors and walls so the decision is all urs


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OfflineTrohnnyGum
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Re: Grow room ideas [Re: Nakedmushroomguru]
    #22344021 - 10/07/15 04:35 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Lime plaster would be more expensive than what I am looking to do. At least initially. I don't have tons of money and so what with costs of getting everything besides making a structure to grow in I am looking at what can I do to cut corners but still not cut corners in ability. Sadly I have no basement or spare room. Although I wouldn't want high humidity in a bedroom type room anyways as that would invite mold on the walls and such. Which is also why I know I can't use plywood for the walls. And it would rot quickly next to the earth I think too. Although I will most likely have to use it up top near the windows, which I already have, and put on a few coats of mold resistant paint over that wood.


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OfflinepoofterFroth
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Re: Grow room ideas [Re: TrohnnyGum]
    #22344154 - 10/07/15 06:38 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I think you'll be fine growing in a walipini greenhouse, and won't worry about the earthen walls at all.

The worst idea would be to try and cover the dirt walls with something like plastic tarps or plywood - which wouldn't allow it to breath at all.

I had hoped to utilize a walipini design with a thermal mass rocketstove for my shiitake grow house to help get my outdoor mushrooms through the winter, but had to settle for an above ground structure. My floors are just earth, mulched with leftover straw and old-broken shiitake blocks. No problem-o. :super:


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: Grow room ideas [Re: poofterFroth]
    #22344504 - 10/07/15 09:38 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

poofterFroth said:
My floors are just earth, mulched with leftover straw and old-broken shiitake blocks. No problem-o. :super:




doesn't that lead to aweful bug problems?


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OfflinepoofterFroth
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Re: Grow room ideas [Re: drake89]
    #22347028 - 10/07/15 07:12 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

No, bugs haven't been much of a problem running shiitakes with this setup.

The few issues I had were from sneaking oysters into the mix. But once I got the endcaps screened in and sealed off, I stopped putting oysters out there and the bugs split. :dancer:


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OfflineTrohnnyGum
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Re: Grow room ideas [Re: poofterFroth]
    #22348774 - 10/08/15 06:00 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

So oysters in general bring the most bugs? They taste so yummy though. What do you mean by screening in the endcaps and sealing them off? Making two separate grow chambers ? One for oyster and one for shiitake?

I was originally thinking stacking rock walls to prevent the clay walls from eroding and just generally crumbling down. But since rocks won't work as a low to zero cost solution, hmm. Rain seeping around and down the walls are a concern of mine for that.


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OfflinepoofterFroth
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Re: Grow room ideas [Re: TrohnnyGum]
    #22349010 - 10/08/15 07:56 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

IME oyster mushrooms attract a lot more bugs and flies then shiitakes.  This is why I mostly only grow oysters for market using my indoor growroom. Its 7'x11' and completely sealed, so as long as I keep up with routine cleanings and cycling out old straw logs I don't have a pest problem indoors.

After a couple oyster flushes inside, they're moved outside and if harvested again I sell them as "outdoor oysters" to softly let people know that there may be bugs and whatever else outdoor mushrooms can often harbor.

I built my greenhouse with the intentions of only using it for growing shiitakes, but couldn't resist trying to grow some oysters in it late this past summer.  After realizing the amount of bugs that engulfed my oysters I decided to revert back to my orginal plan of only having shiitakes in the greenhouse.  Now the bugs aren't an issue.

I call it a "greenhouse" for simplicity, but its really not a greenhouse and doesn't function like one - because its for mushrooms - not plants. Its 10'x12' built on a wooden frame, with approx. 7-8ft tall pvc hoops attached to the frame. The hoops are coved with an old billboard vinyl tarp I picked up on the cheap, then coved again with a regular tarp so I don't have to look at the giant insurance advertisment that was on the billboard. :cool: The two ends are framed off in wood and fully screened, as are the doors - one on each end.

Most of the summer as well as when I had oysters in it, the ends were open and unfinished which probably had most to do with the oyster bug problem. But not anymore.

I really only have a mulched/earth floor because its not practical to pour a concrete slab at my rental property and I never got around to buying gravel instead. But really I don't think the floor has much to do with bug problems, the open ends were mostly at fault.

I plan on relocating soon and hope to build several more huts in secession, all on top of concrete slabs. One growhut per species...  :hairmetal:




I would think that once you dig down deep enough the ground will hold itself in place and crumbling walls won't be a big deal, but rain seeping into your growspace might be a problem depending on were you have it. You could try growing some sort of vining plants to grow up and cover the walls. It may help hold it together and cut down on wall funk if there is any.  Also digging a trench around your greenhouse might help channel away extra water to help with seepage. 

Have you researched how others with wapini designs deal with these concerns? I'm sure there's lots of info out there about it on many other websites to.
:peace:


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OfflineGr0wer
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Re: Grow room ideas [Re: poofterFroth]
    #22349067 - 10/08/15 08:19 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Love the used advertising canvas idea. I take it the backside was white? How did you go about sourcing one?


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: Grow room ideas [Re: Gr0wer]
    #22349201 - 10/08/15 09:08 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Nice grow house! 

Regarding those sunken greenhouses, its a lot easier to build a regular concrete slab building.  Mine is a pole barn with metal interior and exterior.  If you want to get fancy put radiant heating and cooling in the slab.  Then for your heating and cooling you can use earth tubes (buried drainage pipe, several hundred feet), or buried water line for cooling your slab or air, or compost or wood chips with a heat exchange for your heating needs.  I know a farmer in netherlands building a 10x30ft wood chip mound for heating this winter.  Its equal to 30KW.  Also he uses HRVs in all his grow rooms.  Saves a lot on energy costs.


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OfflineTrohnnyGum
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Re: Grow room ideas [Re: drake89]
    #22350415 - 10/08/15 02:53 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

that is definately a nice little non greenhouse hoop house.

I just don't have the cash for all that concrete and blocks to do it that way. Which is what a lot of people seem to suggest for holding up the walls. Did some more digging today and it is possible to use clay dirt walls. I'm just thinking something simple and small. Maybe roughly 8x10x6 to start. I already have windows close to that size. Which even have blinds on them so I can regulate how much sunlight and therefore heat gets in. Plus I figure if it don't work well enough for mushrooms I can always just grow veggies. :cool:


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InvisibleNakedmushroomguru
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Re: Grow room ideas [Re: TrohnnyGum]
    #22366824 - 10/12/15 06:26 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Look into alternative building methods go to construction sites and salvage what they are throwing away free gold. The lime plaster I recommended earlier is very easy and cheap if u do it ur self and will take years of abuse.I grew in a little potato cellar 5x10 that was built like this for years worked great for myself only now am getting the cohonas to go bigger


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OfflinepoofterFroth
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Re: Grow room ideas [Re: Nakedmushroomguru]
    #22366949 - 10/12/15 07:40 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Gr0wer said:
Love the used advertising canvas idea. I take it the backside was white? How did you go about sourcing one?




Yes the backside is white. Everyone thought I was crazy when I faced the pictured advert facing out for the whole neighborhood to see. But now its covered and nobody can see it - inside or out.

To find them I just called around to every outdoor advertising company in my area until I found one that had leftovers to get rid of.  All the big time corporate agencies I called won't get rid of them anymore because they have "clients" advertisments on them, but the smaller independent companies have no problem getting rid of them.

I managed to pick up 3 for $8bucks apiece. :tongue2:

I'm planning to wrap a thick layer of insulation around the outside then another tarp covering it all for winter.

 
Quote:

Nakedmushroomguru said:
Look into alternative building methods go to construction sites and salvage what they are throwing away free gold. The lime plaster I recommended earlier is very easy and cheap if u do it ur self and will take years of abuse.I grew in a little potato cellar 5x10 that was built like this for years worked great for myself only now am getting the cohonas to go bigger




Whats lime plaster? Is it like drywall putty or something? It doesn't seem like it would be something that handles moisture very well...:shrug:


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InvisibleNakedmushroomguru
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Re: Grow room ideas [Re: poofterFroth]
    #22370480 - 10/12/15 08:28 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Google it I have never had any problems with it . It's what people did before cement became readily available if I was computer savvy I could post a link but that is way beyond me as of right now but the l.p. is put on like stucco over the dirt and turns the dirt wall into a cement wall per say  I think the cob house website has a tutorial on it


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Offlinepopok
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Re: Grow room ideas [Re: Nakedmushroomguru]
    #22372035 - 10/13/15 07:44 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Be cautious with lime plaster. Once set, it is actually porous to water, without dissolving in it. If you coat it with a water repellent, you may end up with mold growing behind your plaster. It's ultra basic pH can help you keep your molds under control, they wont grow on it. I would definitely use with lime paint.


TrohnnyGum, I would be interested to know how can you use straight clay walls for walipini. I lost months of work when my lime plaster failed to protect my clay walls from water. How would you keep them dry from the outside rain (french drain, roof, berm) and from the inside moisture (waterproof plaster) ? I wouldn't worry about rain seeping as long as your floor has a good drainage (gravel, sand), your walipini wont end up a pond.

I have done some cob/clay and stone construction and used lime extensively. As a mortar for stone, lime is super strong. So I would go for the stacked rocks with or without lime mortar and lime plastering.  When the clay behind the stone get wet, heavy and muddy, it start pushing on the stone walls. For that, you could use wooden (salvaged from trash or from forest) beams to hold the walls, treated with lin seed oil and beewax to stand the moisture. 

For bugs, Bacillus thurengiensis (aka gnatstop), parasitoid nematodes and hypoaspis mite are your friends. If you can make them live there, you will get free protection, and they will get free food.


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: Grow room ideas [Re: popok]
    #22372289 - 10/13/15 09:14 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

if you do the lime coat, my friend with a cob house coated his with linseed oil.  says it works great and he hasn't had to reapply for a few years.


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OfflineTrohnnyGum
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Re: Grow room ideas [Re: drake89]
    #22382612 - 10/15/15 09:41 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Popok, I was reading this tutorial that said to pack the clay walls with some earth packer or something. I am not sure what that is, though, and I don't have one. So that sounds more than I want to spend. I also, saw pictures of this couple that merely built the roof I think 2' wider than the walls, which helps keep the rain water from the walls. Also it is suggested to put gutters to drain the water away. Though I don't have gutters and that again means more money. Right now being on a shoestring budget I need to see what I can get away with not spending money on. Proper drainage in the bottom with a trench or rocks overlayed with some clay should keep it from becoming a pool. At least that seems to be the general consensus with walipinis.


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Offlinepopok
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Re: Grow room ideas [Re: TrohnnyGum]
    #22407109 - 10/20/15 02:47 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I see, how do you plan the roof ? I hope not with clay


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Re: Grow room ideas [Re: popok]
    #22407181 - 10/20/15 04:17 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

it won't matter unless the walls themselves are actually growing mould

hopefully not the case but easy enough to tell

otherwise a spore is a spore, the humidity would be beneficial anyway


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