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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: bennylava]
#22335773 - 10/05/15 06:42 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
bennylava said:
And guess what, I'm a business owner. Its a used car lot. One day I hope to expand, as many others have done before me. But I didn't start this because of some high minded, pie in the sky idea of helping people. I needed money, and I love cars. You'd call me an automobile enthusiast. And there isn't one single selfish thing about that. I have to feed my family, and myself, and put a roof over MY head, just like all those low end workers you're talking about.
OK, so you're a used car salesman. That explains a lot.
Your niche has been consistently rated for decades as one of the least liked and respected by consumers ... and most predatory, ethically challenged and untrustworthy ...
Not that you personally are like that but no doubt, the genre has probably impacted your thinking.
I respect all business people, but when you say, in your quote, that you didn't go into business to "help people" I find that remarkable. I would think, at the very least, you'd be in business to help people find good used cars ... but not even that. Good luck growing your company if you're not making a real effort to help your customers and your employees.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
Edited by KauaiOrca (10/05/15 07:27 AM)
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: KauaiOrca]
#22335965 - 10/05/15 08:07 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I manage the service department at a major dealership. The turnover rate for salesmen is ungodly, and they're typically a bunch of uneducated self centered douchebags, and trust me it takes one to know one.
I don't like to attack people's personal lives, but I can draw lots of parallels between salesmen persona and bennys knee-jerk penchant for elitism and ad hominem.
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qman
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: hostileuniverse]
#22336114 - 10/05/15 08:56 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
airclay said: in 2015 there's ppl defending trickle down economics 
Trickle down created the boom of the nineties, gave rise to the Internet...
Let me give you a few examples of trickle down at work
I can't afford a new Cadillac, but someone wealthier buys one and I buy it used. That, my good friend, is trickle down
The rich man, buys a new yacht, who builds that yacht? Electricians, craftsman, the middle class, that sir, is trickle down...
The Iibs want you to believe that the rich are like Scrooge mcduck, rolling around on a mountain of money, truth is, they spend it, enriching the middle class...
The fact of the matter is, most of the money held by the top .01% never enters the general economy. How many cars and boats can one person own? Just a few.
Most of the money they have is hoarded, you do realize that the velocity of money is at a 50 year low? That proves that "trickle down" isn't even happening.
Do you realize why the 1950-80's had so much economic growth in the US? Because labor had so much of a bigger share of the pie, today it's the complete opposite.
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 22,472
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: bennylava]
#22336137 - 10/05/15 09:01 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
bennylava said:
1. Companies aren't there to somehow "provide jobs" or an income for anyone. They're there to make money, to turn a profit. Nothing else.
Go ahead and skip to 6:00 if you are feeling lazy.
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Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
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bennylava
Bad example


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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: KauaiOrca] 1
#22336288 - 10/05/15 10:15 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
KauaiOrca said:
Quote:
bennylava said:
And guess what, I'm a business owner. Its a used car lot. One day I hope to expand, as many others have done before me. But I didn't start this because of some high minded, pie in the sky idea of helping people. I needed money, and I love cars. You'd call me an automobile enthusiast. And there isn't one single selfish thing about that. I have to feed my family, and myself, and put a roof over MY head, just like all those low end workers you're talking about.
OK, so you're a used car salesman. That explains a lot.
Your niche has been consistently rated for decades as one of the least liked and respected by consumers ... and most predatory, ethically challenged and untrustworthy ...
Not that you personally are like that but no doubt, the genre has probably impacted your thinking.
I respect all business people, but when you say, in your quote, that you didn't go into business to "help people" I find that remarkable. I would think, at the very least, you'd be in business to help people find good used cars ... but not even that. Good luck growing your company if you're not making a real effort to help your customers and your employees.
Salesman? Ok so you're an idiot, that explains a lot. I'm a small business owner. And I won't be stopping at used cars. In time, there are several other types of small businesses that have attracted my attention for their lucrativeness, and I'm going to make the attempt to get into those as well. Everything you just said about the automobile industry, can be said about ANY industry. You name the industry, and I'll show you where shitbags have done dirty deeds.

Just because its easier to do in one industry, doesn't mean shit. My customers keep coming back to me, because I take care of them. It goes back to the previous philosophy, of "take care of your people and they'll take care of you". If I make sure they're happy, and fix things that break, they spread the word and they come back. I'm never in need of new customers. Never. I've got people asking me for cars that I don't even have, and that they want me to get for them.
Of course I went into business to help people. Help them get into a quality vehicle that will last them. But, if I couldn't put a roof over my head, no way I'd be doing this. You can't be this ignorant. I'd have no choice but to seek funding for my bank account elsewhere, and none of those people would be receiving shit for help, from me. They could go to the other guys who's stance on shit breaking is "it was used, you knew the risk..." And that's a perfectly legitimate, and completely legal stance. They did know the risk. So do I, on every car I gamble on to try to make money. Thems the breaks. But I want more business, and to beat my competition, and to have a favorable reputation, and all the good things that come with excellent customer service. So I do it my way, and they do it theirs.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: bennylava]
#22336322 - 10/05/15 10:24 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Self serving anecdotes notwithstanding, I've still yet to see an explanation of why the OP is wrong.
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bennylava
Bad example


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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: bennylava] 1
#22336351 - 10/05/15 10:31 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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You're simply too blind to see it. Its there, and you're blind. Even if the only reason was "the government can't be trusted", that's the only one you fucking ever need. And they can't, they prove this day in and day out. Over and over again. And the reason its the only reason you ever need, is when you finally are fed up with how untrustworthy they are, there is little recourse. Look at the tough time your side of the isle is having, with changing the system. Just look. There's all the proof you need right there.
So instead, lets just take the power out of their dumbass hands, and use some more modern solutions that don't have anything to do with throwing people in prison if they don't pay the government mob its protection money. You don't pay taxes into the broken full retard system, you go to jail. There's your answer. My guess is that all you'll see is a blank screen where this text is.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: bennylava]
#22336364 - 10/05/15 10:35 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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"The government can't be trusted" is exactly the sort of simplistic, black and white laziness I'm talking about.
Yeah let's just write off the best tool humankind has ever had to form a functional society, and do so because our apathy has allowed special interests to corrupt it.
While we're at it, we can get rid of schools because test grades are dropping, and axe local police precincts because crime is on the rise.
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bennylava
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: The Ecstatic] 1
#22336614 - 10/05/15 11:54 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Its as I said, you're a blind man. And completely ignorant of history, on top of that. As far as you're concerned, history started about the time you were born. Young earth theorists be damned, you've got them beat by miles!
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: bennylava]
#22336634 - 10/05/15 11:58 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Trying to follow your logic is like a four dimensional game of hopscotch.
What does any of that have to do with the OP? Let alone be related enough to disprove it?
I said you're oversimplifying both problems and solutions and you respond by succinctly proving my point.
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bennylava
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: The Ecstatic] 1
#22336671 - 10/05/15 12:07 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Talking to you is like trying to herd cats. Several people here have explained it to you, and we're done trying. If you don't get it, then you just don't get it. Get out of the mathematics lab, and go back to the finger paints.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: bennylava]
#22336676 - 10/05/15 12:09 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Another ad hominem post devoid of fact. Color me surprised.
I thought I left the thread's premise pretty open to rebuttal but I guess you can lead a horse to a giant fucking lake, but can't make them drink.
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bennylava
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: The Ecstatic] 1
#22337055 - 10/05/15 02:07 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Exactly. The thread title, and the OP suggests that you foolishly believe you're (or a group of people) is somehow going to think their way out of giant problems, for which there are no solutions. And, laughably, you think its actually the POS government that's going to do it! The hilarity!!
I told you just to wait, that technology will, in the end, kill off most of the government and your reasons for socialism.
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Bigbadwooof
Snitterbundem The Dirty



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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: bennylava]
#22337474 - 10/05/15 03:54 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
bennylava said: Talking to you is like trying to herd cats. Several people here have explained it to you, and we're done trying. If you don't get it, then you just don't get it. Get out of the mathematics lab, and go back to the finger paints.
I'm pretty sure you didn't do that. All I've seen you do is...
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell Every one of you should see this video. "Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns
 
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: bennylava]
#22337741 - 10/05/15 05:24 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
bennylava said: Exactly. The thread title, and the OP suggests that you foolishly believe you're (or a group of people) is somehow going to think their way out of giant problems, for which there are no solutions. And, laughably, you think its actually the POS government that's going to do it! The hilarity!!
I told you just to wait, that technology will, in the end, kill off most of the government and your reasons for socialism.
Wrong again.
I never said I had the answers, I'm criticizing those who think they do, and those who refuse to see gray area or nuance.
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hostileuniverse
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: The Ecstatic] 1
#22338318 - 10/05/15 07:49 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
bennylava said: Exactly. The thread title, and the OP suggests that you foolishly believe you're (or a group of people) is somehow going to think their way out of giant problems, for which there are no solutions. And, laughably, you think its actually the POS government that's going to do it! The hilarity!!
I told you just to wait, that technology will, in the end, kill off most of the government and your reasons for socialism.
Wrong again.
I never said I had the answers, I'm criticizing those who think they do, and those who refuse to see gray area or nuance.
completely disagree, gray areas and nuance are how those trying to pull one over on the populace think...
let me ask you something, do smart people make things simpler or more difficult to understand?
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: hostileuniverse]
#22338659 - 10/05/15 09:05 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Some things are complicated no matter how smart you think you are. Complicated things can be difficult to understand. Simplifying a complex problem may seem smart, but its just not always practicable.
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Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
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bennylava
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: ballsalsa]
#22339701 - 10/06/15 05:01 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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“Simplicities are enormously complex. Consider the sentence "I love you".” ― Richard O. Moore, Writing the Silences
Not to mention the fact that some big complex convoluted solution generally doesn't make things better. Usually it just makes things worse. See government integrated socialism.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: hostileuniverse]
#22339856 - 10/06/15 06:38 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
bennylava said: Exactly. The thread title, and the OP suggests that you foolishly believe you're (or a group of people) is somehow going to think their way out of giant problems, for which there are no solutions. And, laughably, you think its actually the POS government that's going to do it! The hilarity!!
I told you just to wait, that technology will, in the end, kill off most of the government and your reasons for socialism.
Wrong again.
I never said I had the answers, I'm criticizing those who think they do, and those who refuse to see gray area or nuance.
completely disagree, gray areas and nuance are how those trying to pull one over on the populace think...
let me ask you something, do smart people make things simpler or more difficult to understand?

Another oversimplified answer to a complex problem.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: bennylava]
#22339859 - 10/06/15 06:40 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
bennylava said: “Simplicities are enormously complex. Consider the sentence "I love you".” ― Richard O. Moore, Writing the Silences
Not to mention the fact that some big complex convoluted solution generally doesn't make things better. Usually it just makes things worse. See government integrated socialism.
If simplicities are complex to you, try to fathom how complex complexities are.
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