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Invisibleenlightened seed
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freemasons
    #22335149 - 10/04/15 10:50 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

what is a Freemason?  there are a lot of negative videos on you tube about them.  what are your thoughts?


Edited by enlightened seed (10/04/15 10:55 PM)


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InvisibleNobler Hino
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Re: freemasons [Re: enlightened seed]
    #22335169 - 10/04/15 10:56 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Bunch of guys who needed an excuse to hide from their wives.


--------------------

"The sacred mushroom takes me by the hand and brings me to the world where everything is known. It is they, the sacred mushrooms, that speak in a way I can understand. I ask them and they answer me.”
– Maria Sabina


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Invisibleenlightened seed
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Re: freemasons [Re: Nobler Hino]
    #22335218 - 10/04/15 11:16 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Nobler Hino said:
Bunch of guys who needed an excuse to hide from their wives.





hide what?


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Offlinewu wei
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Re: freemasons [Re: enlightened seed]
    #22335339 - 10/05/15 12:13 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

The kind of people who celebrate all american ideals but need an inclub. It's like low key elder statesmen of american suburban families. Every community of people knows a freemason family with a fatherlike figurehead who enjoys cigars and beers and may be somewhat libertarian in beliefs but not always. I've found many free masons are libertarians. They create (or at least don't try to stifle) an aura of mystery around them but are generally very typical people with firm beliefs in what they believe in. Kind of nerdy, kind of for manly men type people, kind of for people who are rabble rouser 'old guard' types who have firm convictions, usually centered around the USA, American Politics, culture and rock and roll as of late. It's a lengthy process to raise up in the ranks however but generally free masons are free thinkers who adhere to cultural milieu but treasure the beliefs of the founding fathers. Am I far off?


--------------------

1. Sentient beings are numberless. We vow to save them all.
2. Delusions are endless. We vow to cut through them all.
3. The teachings are infinite. We vow to learn them all.
4. The Buddha Way is inconceivable. We vow to attain it.


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: freemasons [Re: enlightened seed]
    #22335409 - 10/05/15 12:59 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

A freemason is a brother who has certain traits. Among these are that they are a man, free-born, of lawful age, law abiding, not an athiest, and of good reputation in the community. As in any large group of people you will find all sorts of people, but they all share the aforementioned criteria.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: freemasons [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #22338164 - 10/05/15 07:07 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Ellis Dee said:
A freemason is a brother who has certain traits. Among these are that they are a man, free-born, of lawful age, law abiding, not an athiest, and of good reputation in the community. As in any large group of people you will find all sorts of people, but they all share the aforementioned criteria.




This is of course what they tell you on their website..or what they will say to the general public..

Of course freemasons have been almost any type of people..

Since the whole revelations of 2012 and the new awakening..The Freemasons have almost accepted any type of person at all..

Ultimately you will have to bond with them..to get in the goods so to speak..

They have indeed been accused of vicious crimes..and I was almost raped by a band of freemasons..and my Uncle is a very mean type of Person..who kept on trying to initiate me..but i could tell from the vibe.that not only was he offering me homosexuality..he also would cap me..and that is a device to prevent and contain a person from entering in an innocent fashion..

What is funny is the whole concept of Freemasonry and all the different secret societies are all to very alluring..I thought once to go knock on the door to a local Freemason lodge..but no one answered..so I thought i was brave in general..but they wouldnt initiate me for some or another reasons..

Ultimately it does seem cool on paper..or if you could join without the kidnapping or rape or homosexuality..to be on good terms with them is likely a good thing..but ultimately a club is not worthy of any attention if you need to lie to other people and your self included..so the honest attainment for me at least with Groups like the Freemasons..is to show them what I am in a fashion of a true heart..and the meanness only on accepted truth and the mildness of attaining to a degree of power..but one that makes sense for me..and I dont really have much more to say..except that the honest parts do seem very well and intriguing indeed.

Oh yeah and just to say the caps are an initial way to control people..and the highest degree masons attempt to control the lesser masons..

I was lucky to attain this power without a detrimental initiation..I have succeeded in White Lodge masonry..which will do anything to make sure you have atonement..so that type of group...is one I aspire to fulfill to the highest extent.. The meaning of it is of course truth in objectivity and truth in subjective relevance; In a way that you are happy..and fulfilled..


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: freemasons [Re: enlightened seed]
    #22338636 - 10/05/15 09:00 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

My father was a Freemason for 50 years at least. I pinned a symbol to his shirt before he was buried. My Great Uncle lived to 106. He was a Freemason for 75 years. These men took oaths, practiced rituals that enacted certain extra-biblical myths based on mythic biblical figures like the builder Hiram Abiff, underwent initiations that increased their status and title in the Rite, and in the outer world, raised monies for benevolent projects, like donating dialysis machines to children's hospitals (at least that is what my father's involvement was like). And yeah, he attending evening meetings, but I remember being taken to one as a 7 year old and shown a juvenile organization - the Order of Jacques deMolay on a news reel. I was too young to appreciate that and my father never attempted to get me involved. But I do remember the ritual room from the times I did visit his lodge. Nothing sinister that I recall, just feelings of mystification from being in a ritual chamber. Downstairs was the Trestle Board, and a portrait of George Washington, who was a Freemason. There were Freemason insignias embedded in the floor of St. Paul's cathedral in London. Freemasons hail from actual stone masons and the guilds of the Middle Ages. Many of their symbols (e.g., maul, compass, square, plumb bob, etc.) are tools of stone masons, but symbolize various virtues and ethics.

If there is anything sinister about Freemasonry, it probably hails from things masonic author Albert Pike wrote in his book Morals and Dogma, about Lucifer being the Lord of this world. It is unclear whether Lucifer is taken in the Christian sense of a fallen angel, or as 'light-bearer,' In the 19th cenury, one had to be a Freemason before one could join an occult lodge like The Golden Dawn. You find Aleister Crowley dressed in full masonic regalia in some pictures in connection to McGregor Mathers and Golden Dawn participation, for example. Hence, there is more 'sinister' masonic connections only because of Crowley. Many lawyers used to become Freemasons, and there is supposed to be a cabal in the government at the highest levels where Freemasons who hold the bestowed 33° title form an Illuminati. Great stuff if you like conspiracy theories, but then I want to know why there have been so many fucktard Republican warmongers and puppets like 'W' in double term presidencies. :shrug:


Edited by MarkostheGnostic (10/06/15 11:49 AM)


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InvisibleGoblinKing
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Re: freemasons [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #22338896 - 10/05/15 10:04 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)



--------------------


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: freemasons [Re: GoblinKing]
    #22339358 - 10/06/15 12:29 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

BrendanFlock, Your uncle is not typical of masons. In all my travels I have never met a homosexual mason. But you did have the right idea about knocking on the door. Knock, and it shall be opened unto you.

Mark, Your uncle sounds like a good man you should be proud of. His conduct is typical of the good deeds done by regular masons everywhere. A basic precept taught in the craft and taught by the scriptures is "And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity."

You bring up an interesting subject with the occultists you mention. I would note that Crowley was an irregular mason not a regular mason. This means he belonged to lodges declared by all regular lodges, such as the United Grand Lodge of England, to be unmasonic. There are a lot of irregular lodges, especially in continental Europe. And those are a whole can of worms to look into.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflineElectric Toaster
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Re: freemasons [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #22339477 - 10/06/15 01:35 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

There appears to be a sudden increase in freemason related posts on this forum, otherwise I may just have not noticed them.  I would like to know why people on a drugs forum would be interested in such a group when they are staunchly opposed to drug use.


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: freemasons [Re: Electric Toaster]
    #22339491 - 10/06/15 01:48 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Electric Toaster said:
There appears to be a sudden increase in freemason related posts on this forum, otherwise I may just have not noticed them.  I would like to know why people on a drugs forum would be interested in such a group when they are staunchly opposed to drug use.



Masonry teaches obedience to the laws of the country you live in. If drugs are legal in your country it is not unmasonic to indulge in them.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflineElectric Toaster
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Re: freemasons [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #22339582 - 10/06/15 02:50 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Thank you for clearing that up for me, Ellis Dee.


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Offlinewu wei
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Re: freemasons [Re: Electric Toaster]
    #22339654 - 10/06/15 04:24 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I can also add that a lot of hippies in san francisco are masons i've met a couple of people on haight street who professed to be masons and had insignias alongside their wings pins and other regalia


--------------------

1. Sentient beings are numberless. We vow to save them all.
2. Delusions are endless. We vow to cut through them all.
3. The teachings are infinite. We vow to learn them all.
4. The Buddha Way is inconceivable. We vow to attain it.


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Offlineviktor
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Re: freemasons [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #22339878 - 10/06/15 06:47 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Ellis Dee said:

Masonry teaches obedience to the laws of the country you live in. If drugs are legal in your country it is not unmasonic to indulge in them.




What if there are multiple, contradictory laws? For example, a medicinal cannabis user might claim to have the right to use cannabis because it is legal to use under the common law. He might also say that the law making cannabis illegal is a statute law and does not trump his legal right to use cannabis as a medicine (or for whatever reason).

What would a freemason, or you at least, think of this line of argumentation?


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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InvisibleDaveyJones6911
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Re: freemasons [Re: wu wei]
    #22340267 - 10/06/15 09:15 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

freemasonry is not against drug use.
in fact masonry does not have any particular ideology or anything like that.
the organisation has it's rules, and masons have certain moral values they hold to (such as: a mason is a charitable person, so you are expected to give some money to charity(of your choice))

however most freemasons believe that masonry was originally inspired by and based on
older esoteric traditions that engaged in the use of psychoactives, and most american
masons feel embarrassed about that.

thing is masonry is subjective and pliable and because lodges operate autonomously
each loge will reflect the culture it exists in.
like for instance a lodge in Texas might have a strict rule that you have to believe in jesus
to be a member, but in amsterdam they readily accept a belief in the jungian collective subconscious as perfectly acceptable)

also i would note that there are 2 topic banned from discussion within a masonic loge:
politics and religion.
Quote:

viktor said:
Quote:

Ellis Dee said:

Masonry teaches obedience to the laws of the country you live in. If drugs are legal in your country it is not unmasonic to indulge in them.




What if there are multiple, contradictory laws? For example, a medicinal cannabis user might claim to have the right to use cannabis because it is legal to use under the common law. He might also say that the law making cannabis illegal is a statute law and does not trump his legal right to use cannabis as a medicine (or for whatever reason).

What would a freemason, or you at least, think of this line of argumentation?




that entire discussion is not allowed to be had in a masonic loge.

freemasonry does not teach you to follow the law, it teaches you to be a noble person.
that means treating your fellow human beings with love and respect. period.
there have been times and places where freemasonry itself was deemed illegal.
it didn't stop them from practising in secret.
when it comes to the background check they do upon applying for membership,
they seem to have a fairly singular interest in knowing if you are some kind of con artists.

as to what masonry is all about, masonry is about the ritual mostly.
one way to describe the ritual is to say it is an extremely primitive attempt at virtual reality.
another way would be to say it has some things in common with tabletop role playing games like D&D.
the ritual is the telling of a story in the language of symbolism, where the initiate participates
as a character in that story.
the mason then must ponder the meanings of all the symbolism and figure out what he/she feels it means to
him/her.

another way to describe it is to say it is what you get when you take ancient rituals of initiation
into various priesthoods, and take out the religion and use of psycho actives.

another way to say that is that it is an attempt at getting as close as possible to a psychedelic experience
as one can get without psychedelics.

anyhoo, that's one part. another part is just the opportunity to commune with people who, like you,
are not satisfied with simply obeying the tenets of their faith but want to ponder the deeper questions of life
with like minded people.

the third part is a sort of show and tell.
every mason is expected to give a lecture about some topic of interest to him/her.
followed by questions and discussions n stuff.


--------------------
Creativity is a dangerous thing in the eyes of those who don't have any.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: freemasons [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #22340830 - 10/06/15 12:00 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I am certain that you are correct about irregular lodges. When, in my naiveté I asked a now-deceased Black teacher whether he belonged to the York or Scottish Rite, he simply said "No man, you don't understand," but he never clarified that he belonged to some Black Miami lodge, which, now that you mention it, might also have been considered outside the mainstream.

I still have my Dad's lambskin apron, his certificates, an honorary gavel, and a set of his father's little masonic books. There must be 20 of them, maybe 4''X 6"X 3/8" black, cloth-covered volumes. There are a couple of other larger books too, and a smaller one one which is in code. I bought Duncan's Ritual decades ago to better understand things. I regret somewhat not becoming an Entered Apprentice if only because it might have served to repair the rift I created when I refused to become a Bar Mitzvah and rejected his cultural and Reformed Judaism as a kid. I did have an opportunity to tell him that I had returned to an appreciation of Judaism via Kabbalah, but that was at the end of his days and a lifetime of resentment both ways had passed between us. Nevertheless, I have endeavored to maintain high ethical standards in my life, much of what was taken from the Bible which is generally considered to be "the Light of Freemasonry."


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Edited by MarkostheGnostic (10/06/15 03:50 PM)


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InvisibleDaveyJones6911
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Re: freemasons [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #22341111 - 10/06/15 01:34 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

yeah historically freemasonry has always been reserved for white men.
but there are a number of organisations that are open to anyone.
these are commonly referred to as 'co-masonry'.

but what i was getting at was more about any loge reflecting the culture it exists in.


--------------------
Creativity is a dangerous thing in the eyes of those who don't have any.


Edited by DaveyJones6911 (10/06/15 01:35 PM)


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: freemasons [Re: viktor]
    #22341355 - 10/06/15 03:08 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

viktor said:
Quote:

Ellis Dee said:

Masonry teaches obedience to the laws of the country you live in. If drugs are legal in your country it is not unmasonic to indulge in them.




What if there are multiple, contradictory laws? For example, a medicinal cannabis user might claim to have the right to use cannabis because it is legal to use under the common law. He might also say that the law making cannabis illegal is a statute law and does not trump his legal right to use cannabis as a medicine (or for whatever reason).

What would a freemason, or you at least, think of this line of argumentation?



As a person in general I'd ask how you can be expected to obey the law if the laws contradict each other. That's just common sense.

As a mason I'll share what is expected of me from the grand lodge I am beholden to. The following is from the first charge I was given and is in plain text so it does not violate any oath of secrecy I took.

Quote:

"In the State you are to be a quiet and peaceful citizen, true to your government and just to your country. You are not to countenance disloyalty or rebellion, but patiently submit to legal authority, and conform with cheerfulness to to the government of the country in which yu live."




Conviction of a felony means a brother will be permanently expelled. You are supposed to follow the law. That's the masonic position, not on drugs per se, but on lawful behavior in general.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: freemasons [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #22341398 - 10/06/15 03:22 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Mark, You're an interesting person in general. I knew before from your stories that you had rejected some traditional beliefs in your youth. But I had no idea it went so far as creating such family rifts. The older I get the more value I see in traditional institutions and participation in them. They make for stable families, stable communities, and overall happier people. I've heard of jews getting their bar mitzvah as an adult before. Its only too late if you pass through the dark valley of the shadow of death before you go through with it. You may be pleasently surprised how accepting other family members may be or how pleased they might be to participate in your bar mitvah or to sit shiva with you afterwards as you mourn your dad. Remember its only too late if you pass and most folks, especially religious folks, have a big heart and a good heart.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: freemasons [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #22341588 - 10/06/15 04:14 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks for the kind words, but alas, I am old, and all of my adult relatives are dead, along with 3 of my cousins. I am not going to resume Hebrew studies at this point. Moreover, I do not belong to a synagogue, nor do I know any rabbi who would tutor me (not that I'm interested). Besides, that rift with me was exacerbated by (1) taking baptism in a Roman Catholic Church, and (2) spending 2 years in a United Methodist seminary and earning an MTS degree. I suspect that had my Dad actually been conversant in Hebrew or practiced using Tefillin (phylacteries), or was interested in prophets, or mystics, our relationship and my relationship to Judaism would have been healthier.

The mythic Iesous became a kind of surrogate parent-older brother, inwardly taken - the archetype of the Self personified (as Jung saw it also). My mother remained an atheist til her dying day, although she went to temple with my Dad Friday nights and lit the Shabbos candles. We went to services on High Holy Days because my Dad was a founder of the Reformed Jewish Temple in our home town. But Reformed Judaism in my extended family was a cultural Judaism, and a non-spiritual thing. We did Passover seders, but it always seemed hollow and a matter of merely going through the motions. My parents were not spiritual in the sense that I perceived our Irish Catholic neighbors to be. They silently and passively influenced me by their mildness and gentility, their pine-fragranced, tobacco-free home. But essentially, it was the intangibleness of their being that induced me to move in that direction after 4 years of heavy tripping. They were not neurotic like my Brooklyn-born parents, neither did they ever seem to become angry. Certainly I never imagined either of them raising a hand to their 2 daughters. I realized some years after the fact, that my 1st acid trip was on July 1, 1972, and I received baptism on July 1, 1976. Interesting encapsulation of spiritual seeking.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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