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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Movies
#22334836 - 10/04/15 09:18 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Film is a fine medium, but honestly, most movies -- and by most I mean almost all of them -- are not very good. I don't know whether it's an institutional lack of rigor, or the desire to please crowds and make money (by appealing to a low common denominator), or what, but it seems, to me, as if the medium is almost wasted. I would very much like to see more better directors, but alas, I do have some inkling that the politics of the industry are extremely nasty and undesirable. A young, bright filmmaker who could be very good might not even get a chance -- or if given one not want to take it. I don't think filmmaking is in a very good place.
Do you?
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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HardTrippin
The Ambivalent



Registered: 11/05/09
Posts: 1,303
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
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In the words of Pink Floyd (Not Now John lyrics) "who cares what its about as long as the kids go?"
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"To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment" - Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Hippocampus



Registered: 04/01/15
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Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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It's all subjective. It's art. And there's millions of people paying for it, so it's not getting an overhaul anytime soon.
I'm looking forward to the new Star Wars, The Binks Awakens
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Sun King



Registered: 02/15/14
Posts: 4,069
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Some movies are good, not a lot, but a few. The shining was good.
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DisoRDeR
motional



Registered: 08/29/02
Posts: 1,158
Loc: nonsensistan
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Yeah, it feels like there's a whole systemic greed cycle happening that blocks art out of the process. Where there might be a unique, compelling script, no one is willing to fund it because of the risk involved. Same with taking a risk on a new director. That new director might be in a place to put together a great film, but good actors are hard to come by without $$millions$$ and the whole thing falls flat on the performances. Or the set design, or the cinematography. And then, if a great film somehow gets made, it's blocked out of the distribution channels, again because of the risk of return on screen time, and few people see it.
The highly collaborative nature of film seems to narrow the possibility of making something good. So many factors must align to make it happen. I love Wes Anderson's films -- he has assembled a group that works together and keeps coming back to them. It feels more like a theatre troupe production than most other films. Animation also tends to present a unified vision more readily than live action.
I think the internet, its openness, and the availability of relatively cheap digital filmmaking equipment has levelled the field somewhat, but as long as people are jerking off to special effects and adolescent emotionality, the process seems like it will continue.
I received a gift card for the local movie theatre for christmas, but I can't find anything worth spending two hours of my life on these days. Still, I'll go see star wars, because . Damn you disney.
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Tropism
ChasingTail


Registered: 09/12/09
Posts: 2,039
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Quote:
Sun King said: Some movies are good, not a lot, but a few. The shining was good.
yeah there are some good ones out there for sure. I still love Donnie Darko to bits.
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Trop and Sun King: Oh yeah, there are quite a few good movies out there, from all eras. I didn't mean to say there aren't. Just that the ratio of good to bad is disappointingly small. I actually saw Ex Machina the other night, and I recommend it very highly. It's not often I see movies anymore that I would give four stars, and that one I do. They made that thing on 15 million, which is astounding given the complexity of the special effects. I think the box office was only 25 million, though. Truly a diamond in the rough, that one.
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DisoRDeR said: Yeah, it feels like there's a whole systemic greed cycle happening that blocks art out of the process. Where there might be a unique, compelling script, no one is willing to fund it because of the risk involved. Same with taking a risk on a new director. That new director might be in a place to put together a great film, but good actors are hard to come by without $$millions$$ and the whole thing falls flat on the performances. Or the set design, or the cinematography. And then, if a great film somehow gets made, it's blocked out of the distribution channels, again because of the risk of return on screen time, and few people see it.
The highly collaborative nature of film seems to narrow the possibility of making something good. So many factors must align to make it happen. I love Wes Anderson's films -- he has assembled a group that works together and keeps coming back to them. It feels more like a theatre troupe production than most other films. Animation also tends to present a unified vision more readily than live action.
I think the internet, its openness, and the availability of relatively cheap digital filmmaking equipment has levelled the field somewhat, but as long as people are jerking off to special effects and adolescent emotionality, the process seems like it will continue.
I received a gift card for the local movie theatre for christmas, but I can't find anything worth spending two hours of my life on these days. Still, I'll go see star wars, because . Damn you disney.
Excellent synopsis of the situation. Yeah, you wonder if the Kubricks and the Scorseses and whatnot would be able to do today what they did forty to fifty years ago. I think probably not. Which is the essence of this major discrepancy between artistic integrity and pursuit of lowest-common-denominator profit-seeking. But yeah, I will see Star Wars, too. Could be pretty good. And yes, Wes Anderson is something of a gem. Grand Budapest was a lot of fun. I also like the Royal Tenenbaums. There's good stuff to be found out there, but it's rarer and rarer, and what is good is not as good as what was good in, say, the seventies. Taxi Drivers just don't get made anymore.
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White Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
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I'm looking forward to an independent film called 'my honor was loyalty'. The film is extremely low budget because the director used ww2 reenactors who worked for free and supplied their own props and costumes. The film follows a Waffen-SS division and portrays the main characters as human beings with human emotions who make mistakes, instead of evil soulless nazis. Hollywood would never do something like this.
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White Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
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My favourite hollywood film is 'thin red line'. Filled with tons of philosophy. I recommend everyone here watch it if they haven't already.
Edited by White Beard (10/05/15 10:56 AM)
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
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Yes, The Thin Red Line is outstanding. I like its suggestion that there is no narrative to war -- the narrative structure of it was fluid to nonexistent. Very nice coupling of form and content. Terence Malick is very good. You should check out Tree of Life by him, if you haven't already. Of course movies like these are the exception.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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Thanatos10
Stranger



Registered: 01/19/15
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Loc: South Florida
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Ex Machina was perhaps the last good film I saw in movies. The ending just hit me like a ton of bricks.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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cez

Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,854
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said: Ex Machina was perhaps the last good film I saw in movies. The ending just hit me like a ton of bricks.

Same here. That movie is really fucking awesome from start to finish.
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White Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
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Quote:
DividedQuantum said: Yes, The Thin Red Line is outstanding. I like its suggestion that there is no narrative to war -- the narrative structure of it was fluid to nonexistent. Very nice coupling of form and content. Terence Malick is very good. You should check out Tree of Life by him, if you haven't already. Of course movies like these are the exception.
I actually rewatched tree of life this weekend. didn't know it was by the same guy but makes sense.
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said: Ex Machina was perhaps the last good film I saw in movies. The ending just hit me like a ton of bricks.
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cez said:

Same here. That movie is really fucking awesome from start to finish.
Yeah, it's awesome. Possibly one of the best endings I've seen in a very long time. And as you say, cez, not a wasted moment by the director. And what could be a more important theme for the future of our species than strong AI? On point, all the way around.
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White Beard said:
I actually rewatched tree of life this weekend. didn't know it was by the same guy but makes sense.
Wow -- synchronicity.
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Kurt
Thinker, blinker, writer, typer.

Registered: 11/26/14
Posts: 1,688
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I was put on to Terence Malick back in college. He translated a Martin Heidegger essay from German, "The Essence of Truth"...
I thought Charlie Kaufmann was pretty awesome in my youth although he is a bit melancholic when I look back, and that was definitely something I tended to indulge. Everyone's got to see Being John Malkovich, though...
Also, as of more recently, Birdman! It gave me hope again for film...The cynics and Idealists truly meet. To me, Birdman is the ubermensch of movies, in that it rises above. "60 is the new 30 motherfucker!"
The last good movie I saw was about a month ago, a subbed movie on Netflix (I think it was Danish) called "The Hunt". It's about a man wrongfully accused of pedophilia, with the small town he lives in slowly excommunicating him. His mostly unsentimental will to truth, or rather his grapple with latent violence of the community's witch hunt was unsettling. This is how truth "happens" in a community of dialogue. Another one for idealists and cynics, maybe. Awesome movie.
I am not really able to watch much film these days, but I'd say there is nothing inherently wrong with the medium. The vegetative state that moving pictures can tend to substantively induce is pretty disarming to observe, but we are self responsible eh? I'd echo in my own response, DQ's phrasing of the question; the question is if producers and the industry is intent to level to meet a standard of false consciousness.
If you haven't seen Birdman yet DQ, I'd say check it out. I'm sure there is hope, yet.
Edited by Kurt (10/05/15 01:12 PM)
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cez

Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,854
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Quote:
DividedQuantum said:
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Thanatos10 said: Ex Machina was perhaps the last good film I saw in movies. The ending just hit me like a ton of bricks.
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cez said:

Same here. That movie is really fucking awesome from start to finish.
Yeah, it's awesome. Possibly one of the best endings I've seen in a very long time. And as you say, cez, not a wasted moment by the director. And what could be a more important theme for the future of our species than strong AI? On point, all the way around.
Throughout the movie I imagined what I would do in that situation. To derail this post a bit, did you side with the main character's agenda or rather the indifference of the AI's creator?
I fell for her
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Sun King



Registered: 02/15/14
Posts: 4,069
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Re: Movies [Re: cez]
#22337163 - 10/05/15 02:41 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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stop spoiling the movie.
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Re: Movies [Re: cez]
#22337202 - 10/05/15 02:51 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
cez said:
Throughout the movie I imagined what I would do in that situation. To derail this post a bit, did you side with the main character's agenda or rather the indifference of the AI's creator?
I fell for her 
Yeah, it's hard to talk about this movie without giving too much away, so I'll put it in spoiler mode. Anyone who wants to see it, don't read.
Yeah, it turned out that the CEO genius recluse dude, who we thought was an asshole, actually knew what he was doing all along. And the main character is just a tool being manipulated by everybody. I mean, you can see what the main character did to the CEO in his lustful stupidity, how he turned out. And the main character, we assume, probably doesn't make it either. Shit, if I were in his situation I'd probably tear my eyeballs out dying that way. The really brilliant thing about all this is that AI will probably behave exactly this way, i.e. without emotion. What use will they have for us once we've built up a big enough robotics infrastructure? My bet is that fifty to seventy-five years from now, there will not be a single human on this planet. What use is a human in the middle of a bonfire? The noosphere will be so active that that is exactly what it will be like.
I fell for her a little, too. That's one hot robot.
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant



Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Adaptation, Baraka, Beasts of the Southern Wilds, Being John Malkovich, Boyhood, Butter, Castaway on the Moon, Children of Men, Exit Through the Gift Shop, Fargo, Fight Club, Flight, Four Lions, I <3 Huckabees, Interstellar, The Life of Pi, Kantemir, Kumare the Treasure Hunter, Mr. Nobody, Nebraksa, Of Gods And Men, Oldboy, Paris Je T'Aime, Paris Texas, Powaaqqatsi, Raising Arizona, Robot & Frank, Rudderless, Saftey Not Guaranteed, Samsara, Self Less, Side Effects, Sleepwalk With Me, Sunset Boulevard, The Adjustment Bureau, The Giver, Rocky Horror Picture Show, Twin Peaks - Fire Walk With Me, X+Y are a few I've enjoyed in my digital collection. I think there are so many good films out there I can't even begin to start
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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cez

Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,854
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Quote:
Sun King said: stop spoiling the movie.
These posts haven't revealed anything you wouldn't have read if you clicked the info button at Redbox.
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DividedQuantum said:
Quote:
cez said:
Throughout the movie I imagined what I would do in that situation. To derail this post a bit, did you side with the main character's agenda or rather the indifference of the AI's creator?
I fell for her 
Yeah, it's hard to talk about this movie without giving too much away, so I'll put it in spoiler mode. Anyone who wants to see it, don't read.
Yeah, it turned out that the CEO genius recluse dude, who we thought was an asshole, actually knew what he was doing all along. And the main character is just a tool being manipulated by everybody. I mean, you can see what the main character did to the CEO in his lustful stupidity, how he turned out. And the main character, we assume, probably doesn't make it either. Shit, if I were in his situation I'd probably tear my eyeballs out dying that way. The really brilliant thing about all this is that AI will probably behave exactly this way, i.e. without emotion. What use will they have for us once we've built up a big enough robotics infrastructure? My bet is that fifty to seventy-five years from now, there will not be a single human on this planet. What use is a human in the middle of a bonfire? The noosphere will be so active that that is exactly what it will be like.
I fell for her a little, too. That's one hot robot.
Agreed.
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Quote:
CosmicJoke said: Adaptation, Baraka, Beasts of the Southern Wilds, Being John Malkovich, Boyhood, Butter, Castaway on the Moon, Children of Men, Exit Through the Gift Shop, Fargo, Fight Club, Flight, Four Lions, I <3 Huckabees, Interstellar, The Life of Pi, Kantemir, Kumare the Treasure Hunter, Mr. Nobody, Nebraksa, Of Gods And Men, Oldboy, Paris Je T'Aime, Paris Texas, Powaaqqatsi, Raising Arizona, Robot & Frank, Rudderless, Saftey Not Guaranteed, Samsara, Self Less, Side Effects, Sleepwalk With Me, Sunset Boulevard, The Adjustment Bureau, The Giver, Rocky Horror Picture Show, Twin Peaks - Fire Walk With Me, X+Y are a few I've enjoyed in my digital collection. I think there are so many good films out there I can't even begin to start 
Those are all good. Doesn't mean most of the stuff the Hollywood machine cranks out every year isn't crap. As I said above, there are good movies. My overriding point is that filmmaking as a medium is not in a good spot at the moment.
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant



Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Quote:
DividedQuantum said:
Quote:
CosmicJoke said: Adaptation, Baraka, Beasts of the Southern Wilds, Being John Malkovich, Boyhood, Butter, Castaway on the Moon, Children of Men, Exit Through the Gift Shop, Fargo, Fight Club, Flight, Four Lions, I <3 Huckabees, Interstellar, The Life of Pi, Kantemir, Kumare the Treasure Hunter, Mr. Nobody, Nebraksa, Of Gods And Men, Oldboy, Paris Je T'Aime, Paris Texas, Powaaqqatsi, Raising Arizona, Robot & Frank, Rudderless, Saftey Not Guaranteed, Samsara, Self Less, Side Effects, Sleepwalk With Me, Sunset Boulevard, The Adjustment Bureau, The Giver, Rocky Horror Picture Show, Twin Peaks - Fire Walk With Me, X+Y are a few I've enjoyed in my digital collection. I think there are so many good films out there I can't even begin to start 
Those are all good. Doesn't mean most of the stuff the Hollywood machine cranks out every year isn't crap. As I said above, there are good movies. My overriding point is that filmmaking as a medium is not in a good spot at the moment.
It's so subjective though, what we enjoy others do not and vice versa
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest


Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 5,744
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Not a movie, but True Detective season 2 was awesome IMO. I thought it was way better than season 1 but it got kinda bad reviews so I guess I'm in the minority, maybe it was because it had no real positive message? I liked it so much because it seemed to relate to our times very well. The tag line was "We get the world we deserve.", I don't think he meant it literally though. Just that if we are not going to do anything to fix our own self then who is? That's what I got from it.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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Kuhl
New Kid



Registered: 01/08/15
Posts: 76
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
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movies have to be good and bad. bad movies are needed to show what a good one is.
The Matrix was excellent in the fact that it wasn't made just for entertainment but that it conveyed a philosophical meaning I thought was brilliant.
Inception questions the subject of their idea.
Edited by Kuhl (10/05/15 06:35 PM)
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White Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said: Ex Machina was perhaps the last good film I saw in movies. The ending just hit me like a ton of bricks.
thanks for the suggestion. great film, great sound track. beta boy got what he deserved for trusting a bitch tbh
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
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Ha, good point.
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White Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
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watched gone girl the other day as well. now im paranoid about falling in love with a woman.
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Oh fuck Gone Girl is a trip. I'm pretty impressed by David Fincher's work.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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White Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
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could you reccomend another one by him for me? ive seen fight club and the one about fb.
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Well, Seven, Zodiac, The Game are all good. I thought Panic Room and the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo were good too, but not as good.
If you haven't seen Seven, definitely go with it.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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White Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
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cheers, thanks budd.
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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No worries.
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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Quote:
CosmicJoke said: Adaptation, Baraka, Beasts of the Southern Wilds, Being John Malkovich, Boyhood, Butter, Castaway on the Moon, Children of Men, Exit Through the Gift Shop, Fargo, Fight Club, Flight, Four Lions, I <3 Huckabees, Interstellar, The Life of Pi, Kantemir, Kumare the Treasure Hunter, Mr. Nobody, Nebraksa, Of Gods And Men, Oldboy, Paris Je T'Aime, Paris Texas, Powaaqqatsi, Raising Arizona, Robot & Frank, Rudderless, Saftey Not Guaranteed, Samsara, Self Less, Side Effects, Sleepwalk With Me, Sunset Boulevard, The Adjustment Bureau, The Giver, Rocky Horror Picture Show, Twin Peaks - Fire Walk With Me, X+Y are a few I've enjoyed in my digital collection. I think there are so many good films out there I can't even begin to start 
Some cracking recommendations there CJ, thank you for sharing!
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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clock_of_omens
razzle them dazzle them


Registered: 04/10/14
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The money involved in making a movie is one of the big problems. With a novel, anyone can just sit and write it, it doesn't take money to do so. It may not get published, but it's still there and ready. A movie takes a lot of money to make, and the studios are only going to give money to things that will make money. Also in the past, there were movies that were mid range in price. Now there are movies that cost 100 mil or more and they are looking to make insane profits. They barely fund movies for like 30 mil hoping to make a modest profit.
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circastes
Big Questions Small Head



Registered: 01/14/10
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Loc: straya
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A Scanner Darkly is a nice trip.
I also liked Interstellar but then I was kinda high on meth.
-------------------- My solitude... My shield... My armour... TESTED WITH FULL FORCE
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Quote:
clock_of_omens said: The money involved in making a movie is one of the big problems. With a novel, anyone can just sit and write it, it doesn't take money to do so. It may not get published, but it's still there and ready. A movie takes a lot of money to make, and the studios are only going to give money to things that will make money. Also in the past, there were movies that were mid range in price. Now there are movies that cost 100 mil or more and they are looking to make insane profits. They barely fund movies for like 30 mil hoping to make a modest profit.
Yes, exactly. And because of this trend, which must in fact now be a full-blown business model, I think the atmosphere in the industry has taken a very noticeable turn for the worse. There is, of course, independent filmmaking, but you have the same limitations there as well, e.g. with budgets, distribution, etc.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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caman
The Sauntering Stranger



Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 414
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My dream since I was a child was to make films but now I don't see the point. Although I would like to help out by making good ones , at the same time I probably wouldn't get the money & etc to get it made. Like clock of omens was saying , writing books is free of budget concerns.. just let your imagination go wild & do whatever you want. If anyone here hasn't seen "Dark City" that is one that I would highly recommend. Amazing movie!
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In the province of the mind, what one believes to be true is true or becomes true, within certain limits to be found experientially and experimentally. These limits are further beliefs to be transcended. In the mind, there are no limits.- John C. Lilly
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clock_of_omens
razzle them dazzle them


Registered: 04/10/14
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Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Yeah, it's definitely just how Hollywood runs things now. The movies they pump out just aren't the same quality as the stuff they were funding in the 70's.
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bastian
Sebastian

Registered: 08/06/15
Posts: 17
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
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Movies like Through a Glass Darkly and Sans Soleil justify the medium for me, but those are pretty old, so i dunno. Also if you haven't heard of xXx or the Transformers series you should look into those.
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant



Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Have been on a movie kick, just picked up Amadeus, Bottle Rocket, Rushmore, Storytelling, The Station Agent, Happiness, Palindromes, The Darjeeling Limited, The Royal Tenenbaums, Welcome to the Dollhouse, Beetlejuice, Edward Scissorhands, Bad Education, Talk to Her, Volver, All About My Mother... Have seen 'em all but am an archivist at heart.
For recent movies, really check out Dope, is about bitcoins and the DNM amongst other things... Paper Towns was really quite nice too.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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