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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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misinterpreting history * 1
    #22332198 - 10/04/15 11:03 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

People more often than not mistake the history of western civilization for the retelling of the world, which could not be a worse mistake.  There were a lot of different people doing a lot of different things all over the planet until relatively recently.  While it is true that hierarchy sprang up in many different spots, these were not in our image, and there was plenty of non-hierarchy as well.  History is the story of our civilization, not humanity.  We have some very wrong ideas when we think about the past with this corrupt bias.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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Offlineshroominated
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Re: misinterpreting history [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22332373 - 10/04/15 11:54 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

what if history isn't true at all and this world was created with false memory's and the past doesn't exist at all and whenever the programmer wants to change the past it just implants another memory in us and we always think its always been true


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: misinterpreting history [Re: shroominated] * 1
    #22332489 - 10/04/15 12:27 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

shroominated said:
what if history isn't true at all and this world was created with false memory's and the past doesn't exist at all and whenever the programmer wants to change the past it just implants another memory in us and we always think its always been true




Great idea for a movie.  We can call it "The Matrix" then make several really bad sequels because we are the programmers hoping to duplicate the past.


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Anxiety is what you make it.


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Invisibleenlightened seed
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Re: misinterpreting history [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #22332593 - 10/04/15 12:55 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

can a brain be programmed somewhat like a computer?  a brain probably has a more complex code to it.


Edited by enlightened seed (10/04/15 12:56 PM)


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: misinterpreting history [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22523297 - 11/14/15 04:11 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

What most people fail to realize is that our civilization is unique, not general.  Every other civilization that sprang up -- and there were not that many -- confined itself to its own region, and did no conquering outside of it.  Mesopotamian civilization didn't stop until it swallowed everything, and it's still going, making a slave out of Earth and everyone on it.


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
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Re: misinterpreting history [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22523305 - 11/14/15 04:15 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Every other civilization that sprang up -- and there were not that many -- confined itself to its own region, and did no conquering outside of it.




Who is misinterpreting history?  This is a ridiculous and baseless claim.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: misinterpreting history [Re: DieCommie]
    #22523334 - 11/14/15 04:24 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I'm just saying that many people tacitly assume that our history is the history of everybody.  Our history excludes 99% of the cultures that have existed on this planet.  I think it's a very widespread and obvious phenomenon how parochial we can be in our understanding of the past.  We put the beginning of history at the Fertile Crescent, for example, in about 8,000 BCE.  There was a lot of other stuff going on in other places both before and after that, and we disregard it as if it never happened.  Our history covers very little, but we tacitly assume it covers everything and everybody.  It's definitely a mistake a lot of people make; I see it all the time, everywhere.


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: misinterpreting history [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22523397 - 11/14/15 04:41 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

It's definitely a mistake a lot of people make; I see it all the time, everywhere.




I don't.  I see history as extending back billions of years, human history as starting from the migration out of africa hundreds of thousands of years ago and written history starting independently in many places along with agriculture and cities also starting independently.

Perhaps you only see a limited perspective because you are not actually looking everywhere.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: misinterpreting history [Re: DieCommie]
    #22523436 - 11/14/15 04:49 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Just because it doesn't apply to you doesn't mean it doesn't apply to others, DieCommie.  Ever since I was an anthropology student, I have seen this phenomenon at work all over the place.  I don't really know why we're disagreeing about this, but whatever.  I see people mistake the history of our civilization for a general history of the world, extrapolating it to the development of other cultures, spuriously placing it on a continuum with other cultures, etc., etc.  all the time.  I'm really not sure what your problem is.


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: misinterpreting history [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22523451 - 11/14/15 04:55 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

I'm really not sure what your problem is.




It looks like you are making things up and projecting some kind of bias.  Maybe your anthropology program wasn't that great...  They didn't teach you about people from all over the world?  Did they actually teach you that only one civilization conquered outside of "its region"?  The fact that you are implying ancient mesopotamia is "our civilization" is weird...

People who are keen on history are generally keen on all of it.  Most people don't care about any of it.  Watch something popular like NOVA, its filled with info on ancient civilizations in the americas, china, africa, australia as well as europe and the middle east.  Go to a book store and see books on all kinds of aspects of history.

I'm not sure what your problem is... :shrug:


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: misinterpreting history [Re: DieCommie]
    #22523482 - 11/14/15 05:04 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

I'm really not sure what your problem is.




It looks like you are making things up and projecting some kind of bias.  Maybe your anthropology program wasn't that great...  They didn't teach you about people from all over the world? 





Okay.

I can see this is lost on you.  Perhaps others will have more constructive things to say.


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InvisibleWhite Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
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Re: misinterpreting history [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22523516 - 11/14/15 05:12 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

There is a lot more recorded and surviving primary historical sources from western civilization written by greek, roman, and christian historians than from other parts of the world so it's been studied a lot more than other cultures and the story is a lot more complete.

Western Civilization had a huge impact on the world due to the age of exploration and colonialism spread Western Culture. Additionally, the large amount of innovation emerging from Western Civilization has had a huge impact on the world.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: misinterpreting history [Re: White Beard]
    #22523546 - 11/14/15 05:20 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

White Beard said:
There is a lot more recorded and surviving primary historical sources from western civilization written by greek, roman, and christian historians than from other parts of the world so it's been studied a lot more than other cultures and the story is a lot more complete.

Western Civilization had a huge impact on the world due to the age of exploration and colonialism spread Western Culture. Additionally, the large amount of innovation emerging from Western Civilization has had a huge impact on the world.




Yes, White Beard, indeed -- that could have a lot to do with why many people have a view of history that is more largely colored by the exploits of our people, at the expense of acknowledging or understanding many other cultures that are not as well represented.


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InvisibleWhite Beard

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Re: misinterpreting history [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22523642 - 11/14/15 05:46 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

How aren't they represented? There's been research work done on all cultures and you can get a book from your local library on india, china, inuits, or whatever if you're interested. There's just more work done on the west cause there's way more primary sources to go off of and the west had a larger impact on world history as a whole.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: misinterpreting history [Re: White Beard]
    #22523727 - 11/14/15 06:09 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I personally see a lot of ignorance in the media and in all sorts of things I read.  Of course by now anthropology is well established.  That doesn't mean there's an especially general awareness of its findings.


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InvisibleWhite Beard

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Re: misinterpreting history [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22523808 - 11/14/15 06:30 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I dont see it. many it's just an american thing


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: misinterpreting history [Re: White Beard]
    #22523853 - 11/14/15 06:41 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Well let me give you an example.  I think most people believe that before civilization, life was nasty, brutish and short -- that it was a struggle to survive.  Modern anthropology has proven that wrong, finding that hunter-gatherers, even in inhospitable lands like the Arctic or Australia, lived quite well and did not suffer food shortages or a surplus of attacks from animals, for example.  The Hobbesian understanding of existence was completely wrong, yet most people still cling to it and feel that civilization saved us.  It's completely false.

So there's one example.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: misinterpreting history [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22523872 - 11/14/15 06:46 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:


…Sahlins contrasts the traditional view of hunter-gatherer life as “nasty, brutish, and short” with the reality of societies that enjoyed abundant leisure time and whose material needs were easily satisfied.  Most important, Sahlins spells out a simple yet revolutionary idea with profound implications for our turbulent times: scarcity is a social construct, not an inevitable condition of human existence.

Gowdy, John (ed.).  Limited Wants, Unlimited Means.  Washington, D.C.: Island Press, 1998.





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InvisibleWhite Beard

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Re: misinterpreting history [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22523889 - 11/14/15 06:51 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Well let me give you an example.  I think most people believe that before civilization, life was nasty, brutish and short -- that it was a struggle to survive.  Modern anthropology has proven that wrong, finding that hunter-gatherers, even in inhospitable lands like the Arctic or Australia, lived quite well and did not suffer food shortages or a surplus of attacks from animals, for example.  The Hobbesian understanding of existence was completely wrong, yet most people still cling to it and feel that civilization saved us.  It's completely false.

So there's one example.




First you were talking about western civilization and now you've flipped to civilization as a whole.


Edited by White Beard (11/14/15 06:52 PM)


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: misinterpreting history [Re: White Beard]
    #22523967 - 11/14/15 07:10 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Well, it applies to civilization in general.  Before civilization, and after its onset -- in Mesopotamia and other places -- hunter-gatherers were all over the place.  And they had an easier life than the agriculturalists in terms of work-hours.  I don't really understand your point.


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