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OfflineSdudEval
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Gyms...? WNY
    #22327841 - 10/03/15 11:58 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Any clue on what these are exactly?

Found in WNY

 


Edited by SdudEval (10/03/15 06:12 PM)


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Offlinebeenblazin
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Re: Gyms...? WNY [Re: SdudEval]
    #22327863 - 10/03/15 12:02 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Look like gymnopilus luteus to me but i would wait for ti.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Gyms...? WNY [Re: beenblazin]
    #22327867 - 10/03/15 12:02 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

It's either Gymnopilus luteus or G. junonius.  The clavate stipes make it look like the former and the clustered growth points towards the latter.

In any case, they are definitely active, as indicated by the blue staining.
Quote:



beenblazin said:

Look like gymnopilus luteus to me but i would wait for ti.




If I had to pick one, that is the species I would go with.


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InvisibleThe Lightning
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Re: Gyms...? WNY [Re: beenblazin] * 1
    #22327911 - 10/03/15 12:13 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I'm going to try to help get this ID'd, but you're going to have to put some momentum into it.


First, compare your collection to Gymnopilus luteus here: http://www.shroomery.org/12469/Gymnopilus-luteus


Then compare to Gymnopilus ventricosus and Gymnopilus junonius. If you can get images of the primordia (and younger specimens), that could provided more insight.


If you don't hate me already for asking you to this, you'll probably hate me for asking you to "key" out this using: http://www.svims.ca/council/Gymnop.htm


It's a PNW key, but may do the trick!


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Re: Gyms...? WNY [Re: The Lightning]
    #22327919 - 10/03/15 12:15 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Following.
Learning.
Thanks for all the great info and resources.


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OfflineSdudEval
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Re: Gyms...? WNY [Re: The Lightning]
    #22329668 - 10/03/15 06:24 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The Lightning said:
I'm going to try to help get this ID'd, but you're going to have to put some momentum into it.


First, compare your collection to Gymnopilus luteus here: http://www.shroomery.org/12469/Gymnopilus-luteus


Then compare to Gymnopilus ventricosus and Gymnopilus junonius. If you can get images of the primordia (and younger specimens), that could provided more insight.


If you don't hate me already for asking you to this, you'll probably hate me for asking you to "key" out this using: http://www.svims.ca/council/Gymnop.htm


It's a PNW key, but may do the trick!




Looks like both luteus and junonius and I reach a dead end @ sapineus with the key. :undecided:    Also, I'm not seeing the blue mentioned.


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OfflineSdudEval
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Re: Gyms...? WNY [Re: SdudEval]
    #22329873 - 10/03/15 07:23 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Saw these ID'd as junonius but they don't really look the same..

Quote:

....
Here is some more pictures unfortunatly i couldnt get a picture of them in the ground but i managed to get one after i picked them of the ground that i picked them off of lol.











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InvisibleThe Lightning
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Re: Gyms...? WNY [Re: SdudEval]
    #22330077 - 10/03/15 08:14 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)


Quote:


...I reach a dead end @ sapineus with the key. :undecided:    Also, I'm not seeing the blue mentioned.





They're nothing like Gymnopilus sapineus, so you can eliminate that species. You either need to go back thru the key again, or skip Gymnopilus sapineus and pick up at the next species in the key.


Are you sure there's no green-bluing anywhere on any of the specimens? Are there other specimens that can be photographed for more details?


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OfflinefantastiColor
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Re: Gyms...? WNY [Re: The Lightning]
    #22330504 - 10/03/15 09:51 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

i agree that those dont look like the gym junonius that i found, the cluster isnt as tight and the caps hardly touch each other which seems more like the clusters of luteus on google images. i really dont know shit but my moneys on luteus. a lot of pictures of junonius the caps are bumping into and misshaping each other


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OfflineTheShroomanizer
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Re: Gyms...? WNY [Re: fantastiColor]
    #22330548 - 10/03/15 09:59 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I have found Junonius and Luteus that look exactly alike.  The main differences I have noticed in my area is that Luteus have a thinner, longer stem, that junonius, whereas junonius tend to be thicker and fatter.  With that being said I have also collected specimens from both that have refused to bruise at all.


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InvisibleThe Lightning
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Re: Gyms...? WNY [Re: TheShroomanizer]
    #22330588 - 10/03/15 10:08 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

TheShroomanizer said:
I have found Junonius and Luteus that look exactly alike.  The main differences I have noticed in my area is that Luteus have a thinner, longer stem, that junonius, whereas junonius tend to be thicker and fatter.  With that being said I have also collected specimens from both that have refused to bruise at all.





We should figure out what the difference(s) is/are, if there is one, between these two species. Size can help in some species, but a little thicker and fatter I wouldn't trust.


One of the things collectors can try is adding a couple of drops of 15% KOH on the caps and stems. Check for a color change that may be distinct. DNA sequencing is better and can be done for around $25 at http://www.alvalab.es.


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OfflinefantastiColor
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Re: Gyms...? WNY [Re: The Lightning]
    #22330922 - 10/03/15 11:53 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

actually it looks like gymnopilus spectabilis


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OfflineUntitled
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Re: Gyms...? WNY [Re: fantastiColor]
    #22331195 - 10/04/15 02:10 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

fantastiColor said:
actually it looks like gymnopilus spectabilis



Spectabilus and junonious are synonymous with each other


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InvisibleThe Lightning
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Re: Gyms...? WNY [Re: Untitled] * 1
    #22331554 - 10/04/15 07:11 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I recommend that we take a brief (CTRL F) look at H.R. Hesler's Gymnopilus guide. It's only 100-some-odd pages and can be found in the Gymnopilus Forum.


According to SVIMS, this collection has to be in Gymnopilus section Annulati. It has an obvious annulus ring ("Veil forming a membranous to densely fibrillose, persistent annulus"). That leaves Gymnopilus junonius (=Gymnopilus spectabilis and =Gymnopilus subspectabilis), and Gymnopilus ventricosus. BUT, SVIMS didn't list G. luteus.


Hesler says of G. luteus, "This  species  has  been  thought  to  be  related  to,  or  even the  same  as G. spectabilis, G.  armillatus, G. magnus, and  G. ventricosus. But, all these  entities  ca n be distinguished (see  key to species). In G. spectabilis, the pileus  trama is  interwoven, and  caulocystidia are  present  in  tufts  or  palisades (see  also  comments  on  page  23). In G.  armillatus,  the  spores  are  non­ clextrinoid; in  G.  magnus, the  veil is fugacious, and  the  pileus  trama is  inter­ woven;  in G. ventricosus, the lamellae are  pale-brown becoming dark-cinnamon,"
"the  stipe  pale-brown, the  pileus  trama interwoven."


Really, any uncertainty on identifying this collection should be countered with complete microscopy and DNA sequencing.



Here are Hesler's full comments from the G. luteus listing....


"9.  Gymnopilus  luteus  (Pk.)  Hesler. comb.  nov."
"Pholiota  lutea  Pk.,  N.Y. State  Mus. Ann.  Rept.  51: 288.  1898."
"Pileus 5- 10  em  broad, ·convex,  buff-yellow, from  ""warm buff""  to  ""antimony yellow,"" often  little  darker at  the  center,  appressrgt floccose-fibrillose or silky, sometimes minutely floccose-squamulose toward the center,  dry, margin  incurv%d . and  s'lightly  surpassing  the  lamellae.  Context fleshy,  firm,  pale  yellow;  odor pleasant, taste  bitter."

"Lamellae adnexed, rounded  behind,  pale  yellow,  becoming  dark  ferruginous with  age,  thin,  close,  moderately narrow."

"Stipe  4-7.5 em long,  6-16  mm  thick,  concolorous with  the  pileus,  becoming ferruginous  yellowish  on  handling, fibrillose,  solid,  firm,  thickened  above  or below.  Veil  forming a  fibrillose  to  submembraneous  annulus."

"Spores  6-9 X 4-5 (- 5.5)  p.,  ellipsoid, slightly  inequilateral, verruculose,  no germ  pore, ferruginous in KOH, dextrinoid. Basidia  22-25 X 5-6 p.,  4-spored. Pleurocystidia 26-31  X 4-7  p..,    ventricose,  scattered,  inconspicuous;  cheilo­ cystidia 24-32 X 4-6 p..,  ventricose to flask-shaped,  capitate or subcapitate. Gill trama of subparallel hyphae, 3-5  p..  broad; subhymenium not  distinctive. Pileus"
"trama  of radial hyphae. Cuticle  a zone of dark  brown,  repent hyphae, with some mounds of  brown,  narrow (3-5  p..), hyphae on  the  disc  (the  scales) .  Caulo­ cystidia  none. Clamp  connections present. A yellowish  brown  to amber pigment,""soluble  in  KOH, present  in the  gill trama."

"HABIT, HABITAT,  AND  DISTRIB UTION  On  decaying  WOOd,  logs,  and  trunks of  trees,  New  Y9rk  and  Tennessee, August-September."

"MATERIAL  STUDIED-NEW  YORK : Peck, type, from  North  Elba,  August)"
"1897 (as  Pholiota lutea Pk.) ; TENNESSEE: Kauffman (MICH, Smith  68796)."

"0BSERVATIONS This  species  has  been  thought  to  be  related  to,  or  even the  same  as,  G. spectabilis, G.  armillatus, G. magnus, and  G. ventricosus. But, all these  entities  ca n be distinguished (see  key to species). In G. spectabilis, the pileus  trama is  interwoven, and  caulocystidia are  present  in  tufts  or  palisades (see  also  comments  on  page  23). In G.  armillatus,  the  spores  are  non­ clextrinoid; in  G.  magnus, the  veil is fugacious, and  the  pileus  trama is  inter­ woven;  in G. ventricosus, the lamellae are  pale-brown becoming dark-cinnamon,"
"the  stipe  pale-brown, the  pileus  trama interwoven."


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OfflineSdudEval
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Re: Gyms...? WNY [Re: The Lightning]
    #22363705 - 10/11/15 02:52 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

More from the same spot and some from 15' over...



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InvisibleThe Lightning
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Re: Gyms...? WNY [Re: SdudEval]
    #22363933 - 10/11/15 03:38 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

These are growing in tight, dense clusters, which leads me to Gymnopilus junonius.


There is an opportunity to use the following information for your own course of work...


H.R. Hesler wrote of the genus:


As in other agaric groups, the basidiocarps of Gymnopilus vary, according
to species, in their growth habit. In many, the fruiting bodies are scattered, or
even grow singly; or they may be gregarious. Finally, a few species grow in
clusters. Included in a list of those which are cespitose are G. aeruginosus,
G. areolatus, G. chrysopellus, G. dryophilus, G. magnus, G. spectabilis, G.
underwoodii.



You could contrast the above species with your collection, and this could take some patience and fortitude.


Gymnopilus junonius (=G. spectabilis and G. subspectabilis) is described in Hesler's book on page 22.




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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Gyms...? WNY [Re: The Lightning]
    #22373901 - 10/13/15 03:14 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The Lightning said:
These are growing in tight, dense clusters, which leads me to Gymnopilus junonius.\





I doubt that we get Gymnopilus junonius in North America - it's a name from Europe.  Even in Europe it is unclear which species that name refers to.  Someone needs to designate a neotype and deposit the sequences in GenBank, otherwise we are all just guessing which species Fries was talking about when he described Agaricus junonius in 1821.

These clusters don't look all that dense and the stipes look ventricose, so I suspect this is Gymnopilus luteus.



Here's the original species description of G. junonius:

http://www.librifungorum.org/Image.asp?ItemID=21&ImageFileName=0244b.jpg


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InvisibleThe Lightning
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Re: Gyms...? WNY [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #22373993 - 10/13/15 03:33 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Someone needs to designate a neotype and deposit the sequences in GenBank





I nominate you?











Those look like what I've been referencing as G. junonius (=Agaricus junonius, Pholiota junonius, Gymnopilus spectablis, and Gymnopilus subspectabilis) today. Definitely, there's room for a new type collection.


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InvisiblerhizoRider
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Re: Gyms...? WNY [Re: The Lightning]
    #22374367 - 10/13/15 04:52 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Those are BLG's. ( the BIG + active) type.
Grown from base of tree in fat thick clusters is BLG main key feature along with its always darker coloration and fine dark fibrils in stem outer structure.
Then when trees blow over, I've found BLG's inhabit the open root ball mass like that for a few years.

They don't move through the fallen logs like luteus.

Luteus is always very pale in color. Smaller skinnier stature. And luteus may occasionally grow in small clusters (3/4) but often alone but maybe side by side with others in flushes.

I have like endless gym pics if ppl wanna check em out just hollar.

Gyms are very neat and hide bruising most often.
They bruise browns, maroons, purples and blacks too.
I think the strong odor is from them being little factories of funnystuff.
They have I doles closely related to psilocybin and may have some psilocybin. But I think the very mellow experiences are due to a plethora of other very relaxing compounds.


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InvisibleThe Lightning
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Re: Gyms...? WNY [Re: rhizoRider]
    #22374380 - 10/13/15 04:54 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

I have like endless gym pics if ppl wanna check em out just hollar.





Defintely! If you have other species to compare to as well, it'd help.


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InvisiblerhizoRider
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Re: Gyms...? WNY [Re: The Lightning]
    #22374420 - 10/13/15 05:03 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

:wooyeah::awedance:
Here is luteus. http://
Note pale caps, smooth pale stipe and tendency to fruit from sides of ages fallen logs.
http://
http://
http://
http://


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InvisiblerhizoRider
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Re: Gyms...? WNY [Re: rhizoRider]
    #22374798 - 10/13/15 06:07 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Now these are what I call active BLG's
http://http://
http://
Note ground habitat.  Amongst the live + dead tree roots. Fruit in very dense clusters sharing singular bases. Base of stipe bulbous with darker fibrils at all stages of growth. BLG's tear veil very immature and the annular zone is more membranous than fibrilous like luteus. BLG annular zone doesn't collect spores like luteus as it tears. It's less noticeable on BLGS but looking close you can see the annular zone slight differences. http://
Now those immature 3cluster are BLG on tree stump that just blew over in a storm.
They fruited for two yrs in the root mass feet in air.
http://
It's hard with pictures to show size difference. BLGS are very fat! Very thick caps very thick stems. They cluster very densely and sometimes explode with beautiful growth. http://
Note the maturity of fruits, yet hardly much spore production yet.
Another factor I've noted is BLG grow slower, last longer untill naturally rotten.
Luteus fruit more often and are faster at fruiting + decomposing to mushy goo.
This is my fav BLG pic I've ever taken :smile: some of u may remember it
http://

Gyms are super cool. Not so darn elusive either :wink:


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Offlineguyute22
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Re: Gyms...? WNY [Re: rhizoRider]
    #22377181 - 10/14/15 06:49 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

cool stuff.  so what are you saying the BLG specie is?  I have found it a couple of times myself now, and thought it was Junonius/Spectabilis


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InvisiblerhizoRider
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Re: Gyms...? WNY [Re: guyute22]
    #22384331 - 10/15/15 04:44 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

They are different than luteus. I call them "BIG LAUGHERS"
I'm not sure anyone is too decisive on Spectabilis, junionus still.


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InvisibleThe Lightning
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Re: Gyms...? WNY [Re: rhizoRider]
    #22384384 - 10/15/15 04:54 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Pretty neat. If you find more Gymnopilus species please include them!


The key to Gymnopilus needs to be completely re-done, so the more observations of more species, the better!


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Re: Gyms...? WNY [Re: The Lightning]
    #22384444 - 10/15/15 05:03 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I have uploaded pix of what I'm told is Gymnopilus braendleii.  They are the coolest and stayed hidden from me longest. I walked by them for YEARS lol. You really want to see em?


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InvisibleThe Lightning
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Re: Gyms...? WNY [Re: rhizoRider] * 1
    #22384713 - 10/15/15 05:54 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

rhizoRider said:
You really want to see em?





yes


Edited by The Lightning (10/17/15 10:21 AM)


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