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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: qman] * 1
    #22325074 - 10/02/15 06:25 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

The Iraq war cost about 800 billion, Obamacare is projected to cost 1.8 trillion and keep rising. Tell me again how wars are driving our debt...

Don't get me wrong, I don't think we should have went, but at the time, everyone was in agreement that it was the right thing to do, dems and repubs... Not one single republican voted for Obamacare...


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OnlineBigbadwooof
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22325966 - 10/02/15 09:06 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Bernie sanders has received campaign donations from Merrill Lynch, who is owned by Bank of America, wait, aren't bankers evil?




Source, or it didn't happen.

Even if it did happen in the past, which I highly highly doubt, it sure as fuck didn't happen during his presidential campaign.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns

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OnlineBigbadwooof
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22325986 - 10/02/15 09:12 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
The Iraq war cost about 800 billion, Obamacare is projected to cost 1.8 trillion and keep rising. Tell me again how wars are driving our debt...

Don't get me wrong, I don't think we should have went, but at the time, everyone was in agreement that it was the right thing to do, dems and repubs... Not one single republican voted for Obamacare...




The Iraq war cost more than $2 Trillion:

Quote:

NEW YORK The U.S. war in Iraq has cost $1.7 trillion with an additional $490 billion in benefits owed to war veterans, expenses that could grow to more than $6 trillion over the next four decades counting interest, a study released on Thursday said.




http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/14/us-iraq-war-anniversary-idUSBRE92D0PG20130314

Do you know where medicaid and medicare money goes? It goes into the hands of doctors and health administrators, and all related jobs in America. It goes back into our economy.

Do you know where military spending on frivolous wars goes? Down a black fucking hole.

How about the F-35 fighter jet that doesn't even fucking work. One trillion more down the drain.

I'd rather use that money employing, feeding, providing healthcare for, and housing Americans. All of which put the money back into our economy.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns

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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22326224 - 10/02/15 10:32 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
One could argue we had our greatest boom in the country's history once we put into place the components of more widely available publicly funded education (University level especially), social security and medicare ... all socialist fundamentals.




QFT


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22326273 - 10/02/15 10:50 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:

Quote:

fact is more is spent on entitlements and welfare than is on the military... military spending only accounts for about 18% of our spending, "social spending" accounts for over 60%,





Quote:

so you think its a good idea to send 1$ to washington, only to get 70 cents back? you have to pay the people in washington to run these programs,
that money is taken from us working folks, who would also spend that back into the economy... so its actually a net loss...



geesh...










1. you're only accounting for the budget. call me when you have numbers for all of the emergency spending bills

2. :picard:


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: qman]
    #22326292 - 10/02/15 10:57 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
I don't think so, the decline started in 2000 when the US had over 35% of global GDP, today the US share is only around 22%.

So what started to really "take root" around 2000?  Globalization!!!  I think you're confusing the real economic decline and large disparity on the wrong policy. it's globalization that truly started the decline, NOT more socialism.

Guess what?  When the domestic economy is naturally providing for the large majority of citizens, like it did before globalization, the need to socialist programs remains tame at best.




good points, but you need to look beyond 2000 back to 1972.  google up a graph of real wages from 1900 to now or something similar.


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Offlinebennylava
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #22326297 - 10/02/15 10:58 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Yes, publicly funded via taxation. Of course campaign expenditures would be drastically reduced. The only reason campaigns spend so much today is because so many companies are anxious to buy politicians. We still want campaigns, just not campaigns that are paid for by interest groups. That's why Bernie hasn't taken one red cent from anyone but voters. He has raised like $30,000,000 on donations averaging $35.
Quote:



That could be the most retarded idea I've ever heard. Why on earth would you want more taxes, especially for something so stupid? And explain why if ol bernie was able to raise 35 million via donations from individuals, that others can't do it as well? If he can do that, he just proved you don't need any such tax. Completely unnecessary. Just more big retarded government sticking its little fingers where they don't belong.


Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
You make the same childish claims ... Yet you add no substance to the discussion.

You're a classic brainwashed slogan repeater.  You latch onto slogans and say them over and over until you believe them heart and soul.




That's a little odd, I was just about to say the exact same thing about you. The difference between us is, I'm sure you lap up CNN and all the rest, great and small, like a dog drinking water. I don't take in a singe bit of the media, in fact I avoid it like the plague. Right, left, its all propaganda. So now what? 



Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
There is only one way to truly shrink government that will work and that is sustainable ... and that is TO BREAK IT UP.  The US is far too big to manage efficiently.  Break it up into 4-5 regional sub-countries so decision making is closer to where the people live.  Perhaps use a federal government ONLY for national security reasons, and that's it.  WE should move in the direction of DIRECT DEMOCRACY, similar to Switzerland and get the Politicians OUT OF THE BUSINESS of making the big decisions.  Let democracy make the decisions and politicians are elected to EXECUTE them ...




You act like that hasn't already been thought of. The government being broken up is exactly what we would like to see. Smaller countries may happen, if we continue down the path we are now. Lots of people will die as a result. Some of my thoughts were, to have all major cities have to function as individual "city states". Force them to live within their means, instead of having them become the parasites that they are on the rest of the state. No taxing people who don't live their, and turning the place into a socialist distopia like the socialists did with Detroit. Prime example right there.


Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
I really dig this idea. Time to go our separate ways. Wonder how long before the deep south is a destitute, uneducated, third world banana Republic.





You do realize those banana republics you're citing, are all socialist nations, right? Aw who am I kidding. No you don't. The south would actually be just fine, far better off (fiscally speaking) than the full retards running the show in some other areas. IF the south actually stuck the the fiscal conservatism that they're always talking about, that is. IF.

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Offlinedjbluntmagic
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: bennylava]
    #22326305 - 10/02/15 11:01 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

bennylava said:
You do realize those banana republics you're citing, are all socialist nations, right?



Name even one.

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Offlinebennylava
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: djbluntmagic] * 1
    #22326319 - 10/02/15 11:04 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)


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OnlineBigbadwooof
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: bennylava]
    #22326352 - 10/02/15 11:16 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

bennylava said:
You do realize those banana republics you're citing, are all socialist nations, right? Aw who am I kidding. No you don't. The south would actually be just fine, far better off (fiscally speaking) than the full retards running the show in some other areas. IF the south actually stuck the the fiscal conservatism that they're always talking about, that is. IF.




Really? Honduras, the country that is sold as a 'Libertarian Paradise', is a Socialist country!?! :lmafo:

How about Guatemala? What the fuck are you talking about dude? Do you just say things?

Also this:

Quote:

You act like that hasn't already been thought of. The government being broken up is exactly what we would like to see. Smaller countries may happen, if we continue down the path we are now. Lots of people will die as a result. Some of my thoughts were, to have all major cities have to function as individual "city states". Force them to live within their means, instead of having them become the parasites that they are on the rest of the state. No taxing people who don't live their, and turning the place into a socialist distopia like the socialists did with Detroit. Prime example right there.




You do realize that:

1. Rural living is an inefficient luxury that Americans enjoy more than any other industrialized nation.

2. The biggest tax contributors in the country are big cities, the economic hubs of America.

If you made small towns in rural Alabama operate on their own, they would be in trouble. Jesus Christ, one bad idea after the next from the right. You people really don't seem to understand fucking anything, honestly.

I can hardly stand the fucking blatant ignorance. They really need to start teaching kids things down South.

Also, Sam Brownback.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns

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Offlinebennylava
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22326554 - 10/03/15 12:29 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

bennylava said:
You do realize those banana republics you're citing, are all socialist nations, right? Aw who am I kidding. No you don't. The south would actually be just fine, far better off (fiscally speaking) than the full retards running the show in some other areas. IF the south actually stuck the the fiscal conservatism that they're always talking about, that is. IF.




Really? Honduras, the country that is sold as a 'Libertarian Paradise', is a Socialist country!?! :lmafo:

How about Guatemala? What the fuck are you talking about dude? Do you just say things?

Also this:

Quote:

You act like that hasn't already been thought of. The government being broken up is exactly what we would like to see. Smaller countries may happen, if we continue down the path we are now. Lots of people will die as a result. Some of my thoughts were, to have all major cities have to function as individual "city states". Force them to live within their means, instead of having them become the parasites that they are on the rest of the state. No taxing people who don't live their, and turning the place into a socialist distopia like the socialists did with Detroit. Prime example right there.




You do realize that:

1. Rural living is an inefficient luxury that Americans enjoy more than any other industrialized nation.

2. The biggest tax contributors in the country are big cities, the economic hubs of America.

If you made small towns in rural Alabama operate on their own, they would be in trouble. Jesus Christ, one bad idea after the next from the right. You people really don't seem to understand fucking anything, honestly.

I can hardly stand the fucking blatant ignorance. They really need to start teaching kids things down South.

Also, Sam Brownback.




Once again, you prove that your level of education is on par with that of someone from one of your beloved 3rd world countries. I, unlike you, never said that any of my more random ideas were "good". And you seem to read so poorly, that you can't even realize that I never said small towns would be included. Nor did I ever say that this was anything more than a mere idea from ME, and not others who were agreeing with me. Remedial reading would really help you out a lot. You need to understand what it is that you read, rather than just making blind assumptions.

Lets see, what's the next thing that fell out of your mouth. I have nothing to do with the south, and even if I was that's just more of your libtard propaganda you seem to like to suck down. Lastly, if you think that rural living is some kind of a "luxury" and is "inefficient", then sweet mother of God I really have no business arguing with you. I guess you've never heard of "living off the grid" for one thing, and even without that, a simple, small farm that provides for itself would consume far less resources and could actually be self sufficient. I mean, how do you think you even exist? Magic? So for 10's of thousands of years, this inefficient method of growing your own food, has been hindering mankind? Please watch the video below. It certainly applies.



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OnlineBigbadwooof
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: bennylava]
    #22326637 - 10/03/15 01:19 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

bennylava said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

bennylava said:
You do realize those banana republics you're citing, are all socialist nations, right? Aw who am I kidding. No you don't. The south would actually be just fine, far better off (fiscally speaking) than the full retards running the show in some other areas. IF the south actually stuck the the fiscal conservatism that they're always talking about, that is. IF.




Really? Honduras, the country that is sold as a 'Libertarian Paradise', is a Socialist country!?! :lmafo:

How about Guatemala? What the fuck are you talking about dude? Do you just say things?

Also this:

Quote:

You act like that hasn't already been thought of. The government being broken up is exactly what we would like to see. Smaller countries may happen, if we continue down the path we are now. Lots of people will die as a result. Some of my thoughts were, to have all major cities have to function as individual "city states". Force them to live within their means, instead of having them become the parasites that they are on the rest of the state. No taxing people who don't live their, and turning the place into a socialist distopia like the socialists did with Detroit. Prime example right there.




You do realize that:

1. Rural living is an inefficient luxury that Americans enjoy more than any other industrialized nation.

2. The biggest tax contributors in the country are big cities, the economic hubs of America.

If you made small towns in rural Alabama operate on their own, they would be in trouble. Jesus Christ, one bad idea after the next from the right. You people really don't seem to understand fucking anything, honestly.

I can hardly stand the fucking blatant ignorance. They really need to start teaching kids things down South.

Also, Sam Brownback.




I, unlike you, never said that any of my more random ideas were "good".




I never said my ideas were 'good' either. However, I will say it now, they are good ;-)

Why are you rambling bullshit to us if you don't even espouse the ideas you spout off. That's quite an impressive copout. I guess we shouldn't take anything you say seriously unless you put your stamp of approval - 'Dis is gud!' - at the end.

Quote:

And you seem to read so poorly, that you can't even realize that I never said small towns would be included.




Small towns would be included by default. Unless you want the big cities to take care of themselves and simultaneously support small towns. I suppose that is somewhat how things are run today anyway though.

Quote:

Lastly, if you think that rural living is some kind of a "luxury" and is "inefficient", then sweet mother of God I really have no business arguing with you. I guess you've never heard of "living off the grid" for one thing, and even without that, a simple, small farm that provides for itself would consume far less resources and could actually be self sufficient.




I was referring to rural living in general. People who live in the sticks, don't own a farm, and don't live off-grid. There are many many small towns that fit this description.

Rural living is a luxury, because it's nice to have open land around you, and not have neighbors shoved up against you, crime rates are lower in rural areas, etc. However, it is inefficient in comparison to urban life by almost every measure.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns

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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22326985 - 10/03/15 06:17 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

All 4 of the economic super powers ... United States, China, Japan, Germany have significant elements of socialism in their political/economic system. That's a FACT and Indisputable fact. 

There is no such thing as a pure capitalistic country or a libertarian superpower.  It's total nonsense to suggest that it even exists because it doesn't.  And it doesn't exist because it would never work.

Let's look at some of the tier two economic powerhouses ... Australia, England, Russia, Canada, Brazil, Singapore, Mexico ... all have strong socialist elements.

Our modern world demands elements like publicly funded healthcare, education, universities, science/medical research, retirement ...

What works is a hybrid of capitalism and socialism ... that's the formula in our modern era.

This is just reality.  Without it we'd have much higher levels of misery, poverty, disease and illiteracy.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master

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Invisibleairclay
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22327056 - 10/03/15 07:01 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

This thread brought to you by a real state loving marxist


--------------------
Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!

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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: airclay]
    #22327073 - 10/03/15 07:07 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

airclay said:
This thread brought to you by a real state loving marxist




Move to Somalia, you'd love it there.  All the freedom you could ever dream of.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master

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Offlinebennylava
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22327375 - 10/03/15 09:39 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I'd mark mexico off that list, if I were you. The illegals are scrambling hand over fist to get in here, and outta there, so yeah.

Not to mention that socialism wasn't really implemented in this country until earlier last century. And yet, somehow, before that, life went on without it. I bet you guys think "Oh noes!! Everyone dieded!!" Before it wasn't around. Once again, your logical thought process barely exists.

I know a man from honduras, in his own opinion, he doesn't have a problem with the place. He comes and goes, because he has a job here, but his family land, and his relatives live down there. I've never been there, so unlike you clowns, I wouldn't become a professor on the place. I wouldn't know.

Somalia. The one place you have that's nothing but a bastion of corruption. Well that corruption pretty much erases your point. But you have to keep using that, since you don't have anything else. The fact is, that the U.S is a free market, capitalist society. And its the biggest mofo around. Herpa derp, I wonder why that is? Hurrrr...

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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: bennylava]
    #22327411 - 10/03/15 09:54 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

bennylava said:
The fact is, that the U.S is a free market, capitalist society.




too bad that our capital (federal reserve notes) is based almost entirely on public debt.  So i guess we are a free market capitalist society that bases its financial system off of the fact that no matter what happens, the government can always take some more money from the public to hand over to private banking interests with the word "federal" in their name.


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #22327455 - 10/03/15 10:05 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Quote:

bennylava said:
The fact is, that the U.S is a free market, capitalist society.




too bad that our capital (federal reserve notes) is based almost entirely on public debt.  So i guess we are a free market capitalist society that bases its financial system off of the fact that no matter what happens, the government can always take some more money from the public to hand over to private banking interests with the word "federal" in their name.




'"to continue their reckless spending"... finished that thought for you, Im no fan of the fed either, but who do think owns most of the US debt? the fed does, yeah, theyre a private banking institution, and without it, all the "social" spending the US does wouldn't be possible....


--------------------
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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22327580 - 10/03/15 10:39 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

And?

If privatization is the way to go why are the private banks causing the biggest problems around the world?


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #22327671 - 10/03/15 11:09 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
And?

If privatization is the way to go why are the private banks causing the biggest problems around the world?




Privatize the profits and socialize the risks ... that's what corporations LOVE.  And, what they pay politicians for.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master

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