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sporerook
Stranger



Registered: 07/19/15
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Loc: TBD...all life is TBD lol
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straw tek questions
#22327086 - 10/03/15 07:21 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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OK I know I need shitload more experience before I should be trying this but basically everything I think I need just kinda fell in my lap for free so wtf, might as well learn by doing..and probably failing but hopefully lots of lessons and tweaks only trying will get me. Because I had no real intention of goin at bulk already I only few hours ago began cramming for exam and any clarifications and advice I seriously appreciate!e
So, I do know 100% without doubt I'm going to try straw tek...after that I'm getting lost in casings and spawning and visualizing steps etc. I'll just lay out my plan and yall let me know where I misunderstood or just plain am wrong on if ya will, thanks. 1. Pasteurize hpoo with straw (add calcium carbonate here as well?? 2. Use popcorn as grain spawn on straw 3. Case with peat moss and oyster shells. (adapt. I'd like to keep it cheaper even and just use peat moss planting soil if it's sufficient..thoughts?? 4. Please address something I've read couple times regarding verm that makes sense enough I'd like to have it explained either why or why not good idea. Can't remember specifically where but someone posted on using verm in casing as redundant and unnecessary bc it's purpose is to retain moisture and substrate already plays that role...whatcha think?? Am I even in the ballpark with sub, spawn, casings?? Thanks again!
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Munchauzen


Registered: 06/22/11
Posts: 14,342
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Re: straw tek questions [Re: sporerook]
#22327160 - 10/03/15 07:56 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
using verm in casing as redundant and unnecessary bc it's purpose is to retain moisture and substrate already plays that role
no. the casing layer is essentially a layer of mulch that keeps the substrate from drying out.
verm is useful in just about every application. it has no nutrients and holds lots of water, so it is an ideal component for a casing layer. whoever told you that was flat out incorrect, and I would take any other advice they gave out with a grain of salt.
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Machiavelliavore
Vermiculite Hater



Registered: 12/08/14
Posts: 3,038
Loc: The Sporetorn States
Last seen: 3 months, 19 days
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Re: straw tek questions [Re: sporerook]
#22327274 - 10/03/15 09:05 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Casing: personally I detest vermiculite, but properly hydrating peat casing without it can be tricky. In fact, all around peat casing is annoying, although optimal. If you can find jiffy seed starter mix, which is oH balanced peat n verm casing (aka 50/50 casing) get that. If not, I'd just use coir and verm casing.
Now honestly, you should make your first tub with coir. You can buy one brick of coir for 2.50, spawn to straight coir, pseudocase with straight coir, and be good to rock n roll with no pasteurization, just boiling water and a bucket. Straw + poo will definitely be much more work, properly hydrating both straw and poo, then properly pasteurizing. The coir will be cheaper than the casing materials.
Never used popcorn. I see no reason it would be better on straw. It's generally considered the worst spawn grain, but was trendy for a while. Wild bird seed with foomans prep is foolproof. Supposedly the same with oats from the feed store or rye berries. I'd start with one of those spawn grains. If it needs to be grocery store easy, you can do Brown rice but it's touchy.
If you do go the poo route, go poo and Verm 50/50 as it will probably be easier to handle, and you'll use verm in the casing anyway.
Imo, start with as few variables as possible. I know it's appealing to just dive into everything at once, but that mostly just makes it harder to draw conclusions from your results.
Ie My Shit contaminated. Was that my spawn or that phonecall that distracted me when pasteurizing poo and the temp spiked? Or did I improperly hydrate the substrate. With coir, you would know the spawn was bad if it contaminated no question.
Did I fuck up my fruiting conditions or the hydration of my peat casing (this happened to me first time.)
Minimize the variables, yo.
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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent. Triggered yet? Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."
No, this does not look right...
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Munchauzen


Registered: 06/22/11
Posts: 14,342
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Quote:
Personally I detest vermiculite
I can't think of any reason for this. Verm should be in EVERY grow. It is the most useful additive in our hobby.
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Machiavelliavore
Vermiculite Hater



Registered: 12/08/14
Posts: 3,038
Loc: The Sporetorn States
Last seen: 3 months, 19 days
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Personally I feel it's expensive metalic crap that sticks to my fruits and generally makes a mess. Little sticky metallic flakes on the fruits. I've replaced or removed It in everything I use except pf sub.
It is definitely easier to deal with than straw though. It's good for starting out since it's straightforward. Coir is even more straightforward though.
And if I was a commercial mushroom farmer and had one of those dirt cheap swimming pool hookups I might use shittons, but I'm not and I don't. So for me, it had nothing going for it.
If you like it that's your perogative. There's certainly nothing detrimental about it. A lot of the poo growers seem to really like 50/50. For my part, I don't see the benefit in what I'm doing. As for most useful additive, I'd say coir, but everything is replaceable.
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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent. Triggered yet? Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."
No, this does not look right...
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hamloaf
Loaf of Fam.

Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 20,192
Loc: Oklahoma.
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Feel what you would like but vermiculite is a mineral and is an essential ingredient in almost every stage of the cultivation process due to it's moisture retaining capabilities.
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Machiavelliavore
Vermiculite Hater



Registered: 12/08/14
Posts: 3,038
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Re: straw tek questions [Re: hamloaf]
#22327738 - 10/03/15 11:29 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Essential at every stage of cultivation?
Spawn? No Bulk sub if used: straw, poo, coir, compost, castings, or any combination thereof? Casing: peat, potting soil. Admittedly not popular but workable.
Peat and coir have about the same volumetric field capacity as verm so I don't see there is any water capacity improvment. Even if there was, a spawn ratio adjustment would probably solve it.
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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent. Triggered yet? Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."
No, this does not look right...
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Om Namo Shivaya

Registered: 05/03/15
Posts: 749
Last seen: 9 days, 7 hours
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Re: straw tek questions [Re: hamloaf]
#22327782 - 10/03/15 11:42 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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I've heard casing with coir is no longer recommended because it is more nutritional and, therefore, is more prone to contamination. The casing layer is also meant to act as a barrier between the nutritional spawn and contaminates i believe. I have little experience with coir; i have used it as a casing on a couple recent outdoor beds and as a substrate in my recent monotubs. Outdoor it seems to be more contaminated than beds with 50/50+.
I'm a huge fan of vermiculite personally, typically use 50/50+ as my casing on my outdoor beds, and do not use any casing indoor.
I agree that using coir as a substrate would be much easier for your first grow, but hpoo and straw can yield larger mushies i hear.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Coir is less contam prone. As a casing its only drawback is the risk of it being consumed by the colony. The way around this is to case only when the colony is no longer in a stong veg state. But I have cased 100's of subs with coir and love it. No worries about temps being off or the need for lime. Its a solid casing.
People who say its contam prone as casing because it has nutes simply haven't tried it. Its original purpose was as a casing material and it was only learned later that it was a suitable substrate as well.
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sporerook
Stranger



Registered: 07/19/15
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Very good stuff yall thanks for the brain food! Sounds like verm lovers and could do withouters are dug in on their positions. Saying something is essential in every step as someone else describes detesting it and never using it kind of makes it a personal fav of that user and not essential. Just how it is And boy yall took the poo outta my bag lol. I hauled a big ass bale of straw home pushing it on a bike over a mile cuz it was free...son of a..haha. popcorn was gonna be what I use cuz its free and peat moss is free. Wow I'm a dipshit! I dig the way put it Mach..minimize the variables yo! Think I'll do some learnin on coir, sounds best for breakin my bulk cherry with. I have 4 45 gal tubs I can use however I want. So coir will be substrate as well as casing? Gonna use coir and verm cuz I already have a bag. wild birdseed will be my spawn. I'm gonna try to find specific post I read that about verm later but no time to dig for it now. I never even heard of coir til less than 24 hours ago. Was seriously NOT looking forward to mess I know I'm capable of making trying to use a huge bag of straw so forget it, it's now official pumpkin shelf lol. Hope I make it to the store before work! Any more advice, direction or whatever u have, keep it coming now that I abandon original post content already haha!
-------------------- research, ask, clarify, apply, learn from failures, tweak tek, express appreciation, share what u know from experience and a beautiful, bountiful garden of experience and ideas will bear plentiful fruit
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FreeWorldOrder

Registered: 12/24/13
Posts: 2,002
Loc: Indiana, USA
Last seen: 8 days, 6 hours
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Re: straw tek questions [Re: hamloaf]
#22328221 - 10/03/15 01:19 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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I couldn't imagine not using verm. It retains moisture, keeps subs light, fluffy, and breathable, and works well as a casing material or casing ingredient. Just my 2 cents...lol.
.... and it's cheap!
-------------------- "They who can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin Lets Grow Mushrooms Videos PastyWhyte's Easy Agar TEK Agar's Liquid Inoculant TEK
Edited by FreeWorldOrder (10/03/15 01:20 PM)
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Machiavelliavore
Vermiculite Hater



Registered: 12/08/14
Posts: 3,038
Loc: The Sporetorn States
Last seen: 3 months, 19 days
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Re: straw tek questions [Re: sporerook]
#22330660 - 10/03/15 10:34 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Sorry, I didn't mean to hijack your thread. There is nothing wrong with using Verm. You can add it to any substrate or casing and it has good water capacity. Personally I prefer not too. It's very easy though (basically it can't contaminate or be improperly prepped.)
You'll use that poo n straw. But for a first grow coir will really tell you if you did your spawn right and nailed your fruiting conditions in a way cased poo and straw won't if you have a failure.
Popcorn will probably be fine to use as well, didn't know you already had it.
Just go ahead and bucket ten your coir verm 80/20 mix, save about 2qt, mix your spawn with the rest, then place the extra two quarts on top as a casing/pseudocasing. Coir is a fine casing. Peat 50/50 is better, but is trickier to get right.
Go to dollartree and get a foil pan with a plastic lid, and make an extra quart of spawn. Try pasteurizing two quarts of straw poo for that, case with coir Verm from your main grow. This will let you get you feet wet without risking your main grown. Check out swimmingfast minitub tek. You can waterbath pasteurize.
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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent. Triggered yet? Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."
No, this does not look right...
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vagblast
shroomificator



Registered: 10/04/10
Posts: 403
Loc: the lone star
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
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I like both pretty much the.same. but do agree that verm can get a little messy. But saying as i have.only used.cvg as a sub and no others yet and i dont.case cubes i dont.have.much to say but cvg works great for.me. and is easy and reliable enough for my skill set atm. But. I will be.moving.up to straw and.poo soon
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mushpunx
Fungus Punk



Registered: 04/20/14
Posts: 13,394
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Re: straw tek questions [Re: vagblast]
#22330752 - 10/03/15 11:03 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22325901
Here you go dude, just posted a thread on this yesterday.Â
Coir/verm/gypsum can be heat treated with boiling water, straw needs to be proper pasturized.Â
I mix the two together afterwards.Â
I go 1 brick coir, 2 quarts verm, hand full gypsum, 4 quarts boiling water in a bucket.. cover wil lid mix it up well as it cools.
I cut up my straw into 1-3 inch peices, and put in a 5 gallon bucket like I do my coir. I fill the bucket with water and a little dish soap and soak it for a few hours to overnight. I drain the straw.Â
Next I heat up a big pot of water u ntill 175-180 degrees. I pour it into the straw and set a timer for 1 hour. You can add a little lime in with the straw too, maybe a half cup for this After a half hour I check the temp to make sure its still well above 140, but a 5 gallon bucket full of water and straw with a lid on usually holds for an hour.
It needs to stay between 140 and 170 for an hour, not higher or lower for more than a few minutes, and not longer than an hour.
I drain the straw, cool with water and drain again. Then I mix into the coir very evenly. You can put as much as or as little as you like.
I usually mix between 25 to 50% straw but you can also do 100% straw, just add a layer of coir/verm evenly over the top.
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 Amateur Mycologists United AMU Q&A
Edited by mushpunx (10/03/15 11:07 PM)
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sporerook
Stranger



Registered: 07/19/15
Posts: 46
Loc: TBD...all life is TBD lol
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
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U mind if I msg u Mach??
-------------------- research, ask, clarify, apply, learn from failures, tweak tek, express appreciation, share what u know from experience and a beautiful, bountiful garden of experience and ideas will bear plentiful fruit
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vagblast
shroomificator



Registered: 10/04/10
Posts: 403
Loc: the lone star
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
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Re: straw tek questions [Re: mushpunx]
#22330761 - 10/03/15 11:07 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ha i was almost about.to ask u to post that thread. U do it alot huh? Ive.seen it.in like three.posts.
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mushpunx
Fungus Punk



Registered: 04/20/14
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Re: straw tek questions [Re: vagblast]
#22330771 - 10/03/15 11:10 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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I use straw in most of my grows especially this time of year when I can get it locally real cheap, I stock up
I've been all excited about straw lately hahaga
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 Amateur Mycologists United AMU Q&A
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vagblast
shroomificator



Registered: 10/04/10
Posts: 403
Loc: the lone star
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Re: straw tek questions [Re: mushpunx]
#22330781 - 10/03/15 11:12 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yeah u have. Got me.all syked. Im gonna go buy two halloween bales for.14 buck tomorrow. And find a good heathy horse to follow behind for days. Lol
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sporerook
Stranger



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Re: straw tek questions [Re: vagblast]
#22330952 - 10/04/15 12:01 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Awesome!! So the ole straw tek gettin lil love out there, cool! Is it ok to use some colonized stubborn pf cakes I have just to get use of them?
-------------------- research, ask, clarify, apply, learn from failures, tweak tek, express appreciation, share what u know from experience and a beautiful, bountiful garden of experience and ideas will bear plentiful fruit
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azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
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Re: straw tek questions [Re: sporerook]
#22330964 - 10/04/15 12:07 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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I love how op say he's definitely using straw and a bunch of people tell him to use coir. Get off coir's cock guys. Op wants to use straw. Let him use it. I do agree with pasty though that coir is an awesome casing, mixed with vermiculite (Munchauzen)
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
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Re: straw tek questions [Re: azur]
#22330998 - 10/04/15 12:21 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
azur said: I love how op say he's definitely using straw and a bunch of people tell him to use coir. Get off coir's cock guys. Op wants to use straw. Let him use it. I do agree with pasty though that coir is an awesome casing, mixed with vermiculite (Munchauzen)
...Hey az guess what...i agree with ya lol! it's one thing to like coir but just answer the mans questions! straw kicks ass
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
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Re: straw tek questions [Re: cronicr]
#22331585 - 10/04/15 07:29 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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I love straw. I especially love it mixed with cpoo
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vagblast
shroomificator



Registered: 10/04/10
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Re: straw tek questions [Re: azur]
#22335437 - 10/05/15 01:17 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Got my straw! Gonns do my next tub with strae an cpoo since horse poo is hard to get right now. Im excited guuuyyyysss omg!!!! Ha
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mushpunx
Fungus Punk



Registered: 04/20/14
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Re: straw tek questions [Re: vagblast]
#22335769 - 10/05/15 06:40 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Keep us updated man!!! I went thru a whole bale this weekend I gotta go out and buy another couple for the rest of my tubs
Most of mine are mixed with coir but I think Im gunna have some fun and do 4 or 5 tubs on all straw with a casing layer
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 Amateur Mycologists United AMU Q&A
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vagblast
shroomificator



Registered: 10/04/10
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Re: straw tek questions [Re: mushpunx]
#22340444 - 10/06/15 10:18 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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So x the cpoo. I just have coir verm and straw. What should i do?
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mushpunx
Fungus Punk



Registered: 04/20/14
Posts: 13,394
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Re: straw tek questions [Re: vagblast]
#22341385 - 10/06/15 03:18 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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"
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22325901
If you check my post earlier in your thread I typed out how I like to do my straw and coir, and I made a thread earlier that shows pics of how I do it
I like to pasturize my straw and coir/verm/gypsum seperately and then mix them together in different amounts - anywhere from 25 % to 60% straw.
But you can also use all straw, which I think is more what you are looking to do, just mix your spawn evenly into the straw in your tub or tray, and then put a psuedo casing layer of coir/verm on top. I say pseudo because I put the layer on at the same time I spawn the tub instead of waiting for colonization, it kinda weighs the straw down.
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 Amateur Mycologists United AMU Q&A
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