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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: If there is a creator...wouldnt something need to have created it also until it just 'became' [Re: DOTpeculiar]
    #22338401 - 10/05/15 08:10 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah when you enter the soul in perfect grading of energy in which nothing is lacking or forgotten..you realize the very nature at one of the echelons IS that you are the Creator...at least thats what i experienced..


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: If there is a creator...wouldnt something need to have created it also until it just 'became' [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #22338406 - 10/05/15 08:11 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Not like its any surprise if you think about it logically..

First you exist..

So you must at some level be creating as an individual..

and when you go deep enough..you indeed are the creator..in your own life so to speak..


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: If there is a creator...wouldnt something need to have created it also until it just 'became' [Re: Jvells]
    #22338473 - 10/05/15 08:27 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

No. Deity is Eternal and ontologically prior to creation, to space-time, to dimensions - theologically speaking. God is said to be Unmanifest, even ontologically prior to Being. Being is often conceived as a prolation or hyposthesis of an Unmanifest Godhead. Other religious notions, like Taoism, do not trifle with intellectual analysis of the Unknown and incomprehensible, but which is considered to be Eternal.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineEggtimer
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Re: If there is a creator...wouldnt something need to have created it also until it just 'became' [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #22339136 - 10/05/15 11:19 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
No. Deity is Eternal and ontologically prior to creation, to space-time, to dimensions - theologically speaking. God is said to be Unmanifest, even ontologically prior to Being. Being is often conceived as a prolation or hyposthesis of an Unmanifest Godhead. Other religious notions, like Taoism, do not trifle with intellectual analysis of the Unknown and incomprehensible, but which is considered to be Eternal.




I love the Taoist and Advaita Vedanta approach but there's some really interesting stuff in Hermeticum too.

Some quotes I love
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasadiya_Sukta
Quote:

Then even nothingness was not, nor existence,
There was no air then, nor the heavens beyond it.
What covered it? Where was it? In whose keeping?
Was there then cosmic water, in depths unfathomed?


Then there was neither death nor immortality
nor was there then the torch of night and day.
The One breathed windlessly and self-sustaining.
There was that One then, and there was no other.



At first there was only darkness wrapped in darkness.
All this was only unillumined water.
That One which came to be, enclosed in nothing,
arose at last, born of the power of heat.


In the beginning desire descended on it -
that was the primal seed, born of the mind.
The sages who have searched their hearts with wisdom
know that which is kin to that which is not.



And they have stretched their cord across the void,
and know what was above, and what below.
Seminal powers made fertile mighty forces.
Below was strength, and over it was impulse.



But, after all, who knows, and who can say
Whence it all came, and how creation happened?
the gods themselves are later than creation,
so who knows truly whence it has arisen?



Whence all creation had its origin,
he, whether he fashioned it or whether he did not,
he, who surveys it all from highest heaven,
he knows - or maybe even he does not know.[9]




http://www.sacred-texts.com/tao/tgl/tgl1.htm

Quote:

  The Great Way (Tao) is broad and level, not far from the person. The seeker finds it in himself: going out for it, again and again, he returns within for it.70 Pressure on it will move it; touching it or feeling after it will bring a response.71 Its mutations are without substantial form and its visitations are generous and free; everything is done with deliberation and serenity; to every matter a suitable solution is found, as fittingly as an echo answering to the sound or as an image reflecting an object. Whether such an one mounts to a high station or descends to a low position, he never loses what he grasps (of the Tao): whether treading the way of danger or walking in the paths of peril, there is no forgetting the Tao. He who abides in this frame will lack not in virtue; he disposes successfully of the myriad affairs of every complexity that p. 21 crowd before him. In attending to the affairs of empire, he is expeditious, like (a boat) sailing with the wind.72 This is the meaning of Supreme ability,73 and with this supreme ability comes joy.

  There were men of old who lived in hermit caves without losing their high spirit. In later times there have been those exercising great power, but they had daily anxieties and were not free from sorrow.74 We may gather from this that the princely state75 does not lie in actual ruling so much as in getting the Tao: Joy does not lie in riches and honours, but consists in the possession of virtue and harmony. Knowing the greatness of the higher self, paying little value to possession of empire, is indeed to be near the Tao.

  What is termed as joy? How can it be necessary to be placed in palaces and towers, to serenade on lakes and in gardens,76 to hear the Chiu Shao and Liu Ying77 orchestras, to dine on seasoned meats, to gallop in broad avenues or shoot the turquoise kingfisher, in order to find it? Can these be said to compose joy? The joy I speak of is the finding of the true self.78 The possessor of this true life will not regard ostentatious expenditure as joy, nor will the simple life be looked on with regret. He will accept a lot lowly or bright,—just as the flower shuts and opens in response to the season. Wen Tzŭ expands the idea in these words:—"He cherishes the truth of Heaven, he embraces the heart of Heaven; he breathes in the spirit of Yin and Yang; he blows out the old (foul) and breathes in the new: he closes with the Yin and opens with the Yang: he contracts with the firm and expands with the tender: with the Yin and Yang, he looks up and down: he is of one mind with Heaven and of one body with the Tao: there are no joys and no sorrows: there are no pleasures and no angers." Thus Tsû Hsia was thin, so long as his mind was at war with itself, i.e. when governed by desire; but he became fat on getting the Tao.




--------------------
It's all for the :lol:s


Edited by Eggtimer (10/05/15 11:20 PM)


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Offlineshroominated
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Re: If there is a creator...wouldnt something need to have created it also until it just 'became' [Re: DOTpeculiar]
    #22340431 - 10/06/15 10:15 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

what makes you think your creator requires your worship or praise because that's how you were taught?


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OfflineDOTpeculiar
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Re: If there is a creator...wouldnt something need to have created it also until it just 'became' [Re: shroominated]
    #22341548 - 10/06/15 03:58 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

You have Evil as your mood it only strikes me why you wouldn't worship THE GOD that makes the birds sing and the wind blow.
if you worshiped the GOD I worship you could only begin to know blessings he will besot onto you. peace be with you.


--------------------
:mushroom2::rocket:If a man's wit be wandering, let him study the mathematics.:mushroom2::rocket:


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OfflineFaustoid
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Re: If there is a creator...wouldnt something need to have created it also until it just 'became' [Re: Jvells]
    #22341667 - 10/06/15 04:41 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

"Turtles all the way down"


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: If there is a creator...wouldnt something need to have created it also until it just 'became' [Re: Eggtimer] * 1
    #22341713 - 10/06/15 04:57 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I love the Taoist and Advaita Vedanta approach but there's some really interesting stuff in Hermeticum too.

Yes, I agree, but there is a parallel between the complexities of Hermetic material and the Six Yogas of Form in Tantric Buddhism. Tibetan Buddhism also has its simple direct Dharmic paths of Dzogchen and Mahamudra which do not work through the Samboghakaya subtle body of 'drops,' 'winds,' 'channels,' (like Hindu Tantric chakras, pranas, and nadis). In other words, there is more than one way to Realization. Ultimately, Reality coalesces into Primordial Unity. Even among very high mystical theology (i.e., Pseudo-Dionysus), the Holy Trinity is transcended by the "Super-Essential Godhead" about which nothing can be posited, except perhaps Unity. You posted an interesting painting that I've always liked, which cites "Byss and Abyss," which is based on the work of mystic Jacob Boehme (Behman in English), whose works I admire. But when one is throughly done with intellectualizing the incomprehensible, the mind must surrender to utter simplicity, as in Taoism and Vedanta. In the latter, Ramana Maharshi's writings satisfy the most intellectual seeker, but he himself said that even his Hridayam ceases to be necessary for one who lives in non-dualism. This is why the Buddhist meditations I now practice, after a lifetime of centering (Samatha) practices such as Sri Ramana's, was so difficult for me initially. I had to surrender even an identity as an Infinite and Infinitesimal Point because it was still referential. It still denotes a Self, even an Atman Universal Self, but this too had to go. :shrug:


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineFaustoid
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Re: If there is a creator...wouldnt something need to have created it also until it just 'became' [Re: Jvells]
    #22341737 - 10/06/15 05:04 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

336 said:
Quote:

Faustoid said:
"Turtles all the way down"








Lol, not what expected. Well played.


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OfflineEggtimer
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Re: If there is a creator...wouldnt something need to have created it also until it just 'became' [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #22342200 - 10/06/15 06:56 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
I love the Taoist and Advaita Vedanta approach but there's some really interesting stuff in Hermeticum too.

Yes, I agree, but there is a parallel between the complexities of Hermetic material and the Six Yogas of Form in Tantric Buddhism. Tibetan Buddhism also has its simple direct Dharmic paths of Dzogchen and Mahamudra which do not work through the Samboghakaya subtle body of 'drops,' 'winds,' 'channels,' (like Hindu Tantric chakras, pranas, and nadis). In other words, there is more than one way to Realization. Ultimately, Reality coalesces into Primordial Unity. Even among very high mystical theology (i.e., Pseudo-Dionysus), the Holy Trinity is transcended by the "Super-Essential Godhead" about which nothing can be posited, except perhaps Unity. You posted an interesting painting that I've always liked, which cites "Byss and Abyss," which is based on the work of mystic Jacob Boehme (Behman in English), whose works I admire. But when one is throughly done with intellectualizing the incomprehensible, the mind must surrender to utter simplicity, as in Taoism and Vedanta. In the latter, Ramana Maharshi's writings satisfy the most intellectual seeker, but he himself said that even his Hridayam ceases to be necessary for one who lives in non-dualism. This is why the Buddhist meditations I now practice, after a lifetime of centering (Samatha) practices such as Sri Ramana's, was so difficult for me initially. I had to surrender even an identity as an Infinite and Infinitesimal Point because it was still referential. It still denotes a Self, even an Atman Universal Self, but this too had to go. :shrug:




I would agree if you're saying what I think you're saying.
Enlightenment is now. I realized this a while ago but still like to read stuff.
It just grows deeper and deeper and I don't think it ever ends?





Edited by Eggtimer (10/06/15 07:03 PM)


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Invisibleenlightened seed
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Re: If there is a creator...wouldnt something need to have created it also until it just 'became' [Re: enlightened seed]
    #22342663 - 10/06/15 08:27 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

enlightened seed said:
we are probably just an experiment :rockon:





we only use 10% of our brains? true or false?  what is the other 90% doing?


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Offlineshroominated
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Re: If there is a creator...wouldnt something need to have created it also until it just 'became' [Re: DOTpeculiar]
    #22345022 - 10/07/15 12:05 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I don't just worship a theory I worship the ground I walk on the air I breath the soul in my body everything combined


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: If there is a creator...wouldnt something need to have created it also until it just 'became' [Re: shroominated]
    #22346276 - 10/07/15 04:13 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

all concepts are dependent on context.
mind forgets this and identifies with concepts.
the loftier they are the more hypnotic.

consider space has no shape.
the eye cannot see itself.
the hand cannot grasp itself,
and
time has no duration.

whatever is limitless has no context
space does not contain itself - it IS itself
time does not measure/contain itself - it IS itself
so interestingly if we abandon our usual hypnosis it is interesting
to reflect that
space also has no size
it can't get outside itself to compare (to something else) or measure itself
like wise time can't get outside itself so it can't measure itself and so has no size or in this case duration.
If there is no duration searching for a beginning to time is even more absurd. Obviously the present moment has no measurable duration and yet is the only time that actually 'exists'.

Everything mind attempts to do, that is logical and not fantasy or feeling based, is dependent on concepts that are dependent on context.
The so called conscious mind seems to loose itself constantly just like the dreaming mind.
So mind cannot solve questions dealing with hypothetical ultimates, absolutes, or infinite infinities.
I think this is an aspect of what Einstein called our attention to.
Like wise Buddhism questions the notion of an ultimate definable absolute objective static reference point, and suggests we focus our efforts elsewhere. To indulge in a search for dogmatic answers to theological ultimates might be called a waste of time, or in the vernacular "mental masturbation".
Besides historically …
Dogma always ends up as doctrine for measuring heresy and then follows persecution, wars and such like...


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: If there is a creator...wouldnt something need to have created it also until it just 'became' [Re: laughingdog]
    #22347991 - 10/07/15 10:38 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Lol..to go more in depth the closest to the truth that i read was the Hermeticum poem..I have indeed experienced the Soul directly on an Ayahuasca trip, which took me nine hours to cook on the first day..where i stood opposite the stove, sitting on an island..and I prayed and attempted to gather all the correct energy to funnel and fulfill the highest meaning possible..I indeed prayed the Whole time..which is 9 hours of direct spiritual Experience..

The next day I only had to do it for 3 hours..with the same type of Devotion..I was obsessed with drugs in general..but cared deeply for the highs of psychedelic experience;

So the next day I down a half mug full of this nasty dirt..took me a whole hour to down the thing

Its very long to type everything i did on that trip.but the middle was a drop directly into my soul..which was first in the form of a Disc..of light..

And then transformed into a state where nothing existed at all..except myself..and at that moment i knew i was god and the Creator..all as one perception..if i can even say it..but it was like having perfect direct knowledge..and I was in perfect peace..because there was literally nothing else except the self..and at its perfect highest range..it is indeed God..and the Creator as one..perfect in every way and lacking in nothing at all..

Then i had memories of Past lives..covered in a Red energy which is love..and the energy i can use in Reiki for example..it was the life of Alexander the Great..which was like 2000 of more years..according to my detection of the memory itself..And then a green fern leaf so to speak which was the leaf of the memory of being Bruce Lee..it seems I have been him twice in the past 1000 years..in perfect soul logic or when you get caught by higher spiritual beings you can get sent to different times then the current normal forwarding history that we are used to..if you are supremely blessed you will be left alone..to incarnate naturally to a year in the future..so if your very apt..and wise you can then study your past life..and I was a huge Bruce Lee fan before i ever knew that I was Incarnated..

Because i have such a rich History of being great masters in Every Respect..including Buddha Jesus..Mohamad.. and Lao Tzu..and many other famous individuals..it makes it harder for me to be honest..because i am afraid that i will be called a liar..but indeed the honest perception of truth is all i need to believe..in so you can read this and understand the truth that is planted in this message..or reject it..ultimately i can only tell the truth..anyway or regardless..

last but not least..the color of introduction was orange...and then the soul was a perfect yellow..and that is where light came from..

And these are the colors of the egg so to speak...which reminds one of the great question: What came first the Chicken or the Egg..it would indeed be amazing to me to say this..but the egg..is the true Consciousness so indeed they are the exact same thing..

Until of course you call the chicken a Chicken and he runs off..and discovers or explores/creates the outside world..

To bad he discovered the idea/reality of suffering..because we are still here aboard a ship that has about 696, zeros to it..as far as i have been taught and perceive..

So the egg and chicken in pure form..are indeed perfect..but maybe it was simple curiosity to get out of the soul..and create existence..and hmm this one is odd..but create other people too..

When people look at me I am indeed the God Jupiter..who has experienced all forms of living..and I also look like Adam..

I have stated recently that i will initiate you to the very exact M-line of the features that you portray as a facial examination itself..I know ive seen a few Zeuses out there with the Grey beard and everything..but I am more into the eternally young Thing..or vibe of currency that makes me who I am..

What you look like is who you are..


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Offlinecircastes
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Re: If there is a creator...wouldnt something need to have created it also until it just 'became' [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #22348303 - 10/08/15 12:26 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Oh yeah the glory of God is not great enough that he needs naturally stinky and warmongering primates to praise him.


--------------------
My solitude...
My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE


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OfflineEggtimer
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Re: If there is a creator...wouldnt something need to have created it also until it just 'became' [Re: circastes]
    #22348376 - 10/08/15 01:06 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Any person that is a christian/monotheist should read the nag hammadi.

Quote:

Because of the reality of the authorities, inspired by the spirit of the father of truth, the great messenger referring to the authorities of the darkness told us that “our contest is not against flesh and blood, rather, the authorities of the universe and the spirits of wickedness.” I have sent you this because you inquire about the reality of the authorities.

Their chief is blind. Because of his power and his ignorance and his arrogance he said, with his power, “I am god; there is no other but me.”

When he said this, he sinned against all. This speech rose up to incorruptibility. Then there was a voice that came forth from incorruptibility, saying, “You are wrong, Samael,” that is, blind god.

His thoughts became blind. And having expelled his power—that is, the blasphemy he had spoken—he pursued it down to chaos and the abyss, his mother, at the instigation of Pistis Sophia. She established each of his offspring in conformity with its power, after the pattern of the realms that are above, for by starting from the invisible world the visible world was invented.

As incorruptibility looked down into the region of the waters, her image appeared in the waters, and the authorities of the darkness became enamored of her. But they could not lay hold of that image which had appeared to them in the waters, because of their weakness, since beings that merely have soul cannot lay hold of those that have spirit. For they were from below, while it was from above.




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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: If there is a creator...wouldnt something need to have created it also until it just 'became' [Re: enlightened seed]
    #22352373 - 10/08/15 10:41 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

enlightened seed said:
Quote:

enlightened seed said:
we are probably just an experiment :rockon:





we only use 10% of our brains? true or false?  what is the other 90% doing?




False.  It is pervasive, but I hope it doesn't take long for people to stop believing this myth.


--------------------
I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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OfflineNature-lad
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Re: If there is a creator...wouldnt something need to have created it also until it just 'became' [Re: Jvells]
    #22361281 - 10/10/15 11:33 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

The creator is infinity.
The creation is finite ?


--------------------
_____________________________________________________
I have a relationship with nature.
I make love to her, but is it enough?
I solemnly swear to love her everyday.
_____________________________________________________
I squashed a dragonfly and saw it writhing in pain.
Ayahuasca taught me to feel what others do.
I felt what it felt in that instance.
I felt disgusted. I partially hate myself for it.
I think Im turning vegan, man.


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OfflineDouglas Howard
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Re: If there is a creator...wouldnt something need to have created it also until it just 'became' [Re: Jvells]
    #22362298 - 10/11/15 09:24 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Jvells said:
If we really have a creator...wouldnt it need its own and so forth until eventually that creator just 'happened' and didnt have its own creator besides the universe being its creator? I dont get how this argument isnt more popular. Am i missing something?




Because we has an beginning, we believed that everything else must of have had a beginning as well. A living force or spirit cannot die, it just goes on forever; that is why this Creator is trying it best by giving us many chances to change our ways, because we reap what we sow, which it means if we produce it, that we has to eat it one day. Most people has been creating evil forces and which it cannot die but only can be ignored. This Creator is going to ignore these creations and it's creators, that they will not be in His sight any more; tossed far away into another dimension. Just imagine living among your own creations and everybody else creations forever. and so it is best to produce good, it will not be that bad to live among goodness.


1 Corinthians 14:38 But if anyone ignores this, they will themselves be ignored.

Psalm 51:11 Do not cast me from your presence or take your Holy Spirit from me.

Proverbs 18:21 The tongue has the power of life and death, and those who love it will eat its fruit. ( And so which one will you choose?)

Matthew 12:33 “Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit.

Galatians 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.


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Invisibleenlightened seed
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Re: If there is a creator...wouldnt something need to have created it also until it just 'became' [Re: Jvells]
    #22365031 - 10/11/15 07:12 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

there can only be one creator in my opinion, as two would be one to many.?.?


Edited by enlightened seed (10/11/15 07:13 PM)


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