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Jvells
Unity



Registered: 11/05/09
Posts: 3,031
Loc: East coast
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If there is a creator...wouldnt something need to have created it also until it just 'became'
#22326684 - 10/03/15 01:51 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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If we really have a creator...wouldnt it need its own and so forth until eventually that creator just 'happened' and didnt have its own creator besides the universe being its creator? I dont get how this argument isnt more popular. Am i missing something?
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impatientguy
Ganjalf a very mighty lab wizard



Registered: 11/26/14
Posts: 5,054
Loc: USA
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Re: If there is a creator...wouldnt something need to have created it also until it just 'became' [Re: Jvells]
#22326704 - 10/03/15 02:01 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Lol a never ending cycle of creators
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zZZz
jesus


Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 33,478
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Re: If there is a creator...wouldnt something need to have created it also until it just 'became' [Re: impatientguy]
#22326770 - 10/03/15 02:30 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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they dont call the creator infinite for nothing
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circastes
Big Questions Small Head



Registered: 01/14/10
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Re: If there is a creator...wouldnt something need to have created it also until it just 'became' [Re: zZZz]
#22326823 - 10/03/15 03:27 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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People hardly realise it's a sheer mystery.
-------------------- My solitude... My shield... My armour... TESTED WITH FULL FORCE
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champinhom
Lord Justhappensness


Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 987
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Re: If there is a creator...wouldnt something need to have created it also until it just 'became' [Re: Jvells]
#22326836 - 10/03/15 03:37 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Jvells said: If we really have a creator...wouldnt it need its own and so forth until eventually that creator just 'happened' and didnt have its own creator besides the universe being its creator? I dont get how this argument isnt more popular. Am i missing something?
If you look at your mind process long enough it will suddenly dawn on you that every aspect of that process--thoughts, feelings, decisions, etc., "just happen". And eventually it will hit you: Everything about you AND about everything else is like that. It ALL just happens.
This is a, shall we say, liberating realization.
-------------------- My father used to say: I don't care what else you do in life, just don't be an asshole. People, forgive me when I forget what my daddy said. Cut back the proliferating list of people whose opinions can hurt you. Unless they have done or want to do you some good, their views are just not worth tracking. Saul Bellow “People are just cannibals unless they leave each other alone.” Doris Lessing Those whom the gods would save, they dower with compassion. Mr. P. Silocybin
Edited by champinhom (10/03/15 03:37 AM)
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cbub
it


Registered: 10/17/10
Posts: 1,412
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Re: If there is a creator...wouldn't something need to have created it also until it just 'became' [Re: champinhom]
#22326851 - 10/03/15 04:01 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Time is a creation like everything else, you dont get a before or after without it... taking logic to be a benchmark for reality is not out-of-the-box enough approach to tackle the simplicity of the paradox.
-------------------- It's fine.
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PocketLady



Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 1,773
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Re: If there is a creator...wouldn't something need to have created it also until it just 'became' [Re: cbub]
#22327140 - 10/03/15 07:45 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Because our current existence has a past, present and future, it's impossible to imagine what it would be like to live without time. No past, no future, only the eternal now. If there is only the eternal now, then there can be nothing that came before and nothing that came after. There can be nothing that created the creator, because the creator is all there is. The eternal all-mind. It's only our current perception that prevents us from seeing that.
-------------------- Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity. The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death. Tomorrow, when resurrection comes, The heart that is not in love will fail the test. ~ Rumi The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny. ~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir
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champinhom
Lord Justhappensness


Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 987
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Re: If there is a creator...wouldn't something need to have created it also until it just 'became' [Re: PocketLady]
#22327645 - 10/03/15 10:57 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
PocketLady said: Because our current existence has a past, present and future, it's impossible to imagine what it would be like to live without time. No past, no future, only the eternal now. If there is only the eternal now, then there can be nothing that came before and nothing that came after. There can be nothing that created the creator, because the creator is all there is. The eternal all-mind. It's only our current perception that prevents us from seeing that.
You say that it is only our current perception that prevents us from seeing that, but our current perception, or it might be phrased, our current experience, is all we have. In other words, all we have is this Now. There is no that, unless it is somehow this now because this Now is what there is. I mean, Now is all there is and it can look like anything and look like any level of being--i.e., you don't have to be feeling eternal light-blasted bliss to have it all--you can be just ordinary, just jogging along--and that is it in its entirety--because it can look like anything and still be its complete self.
-------------------- My father used to say: I don't care what else you do in life, just don't be an asshole. People, forgive me when I forget what my daddy said. Cut back the proliferating list of people whose opinions can hurt you. Unless they have done or want to do you some good, their views are just not worth tracking. Saul Bellow “People are just cannibals unless they leave each other alone.” Doris Lessing Those whom the gods would save, they dower with compassion. Mr. P. Silocybin
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Space Elf



Registered: 07/29/10
Posts: 3,371
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
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Re: If there is a creator...wouldnt something need to have created it also until it just 'became' [Re: Jvells]
#22327875 - 10/03/15 12:03 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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The Universe is the Creator, IMO.
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shroominated
Stranger

Registered: 11/12/13
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Re: If there is a creator...wouldnt something need to have created it also until it just 'became' [Re: Space Elf]
#22327888 - 10/03/15 12:06 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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the creator created it self hence the word creator
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Space Elf



Registered: 07/29/10
Posts: 3,371
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
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Re: If there is a creator...wouldnt something need to have created it also until it just 'became' [Re: shroominated]
#22327948 - 10/03/15 12:21 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
shroominated said: the creator created it self hence the word creator
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PocketLady



Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 1,773
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Re: If there is a creator...wouldn't something need to have created it also until it just 'became' [Re: champinhom]
#22331443 - 10/04/15 06:13 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
champinhom said:
You say that it is only our current perception that prevents us from seeing that, but our current perception, or it might be phrased, our current experience, is all we have. In other words, all we have is this Now. There is no that, unless it is somehow this now because this Now is what there is. I mean, Now is all there is and it can look like anything and look like any level of being--i.e., you don't have to be feeling eternal light-blasted bliss to have it all--you can be just ordinary, just jogging along--and that is it in its entirety--because it can look like anything and still be its complete self.
Yes, trying to speak of what God, or the creator is, it remains just philosophy until a person can experience it for themselves. But without some kind of philosophy to guide us, we would never take the steps that enable us to have that experience. So sometimes we must speak of and listen to things that are outside of our experience until we can actually have that experience and know it ourselves.
What we see all around us, it is all maya, illusion, projections of the mind itself. Because we are so attached to our minds, we don't see the way things really are, because our minds prevent us from being truly present in the now ( as much as we might think we are present in our daily lives). This is why, when experienced meditators meditate, they are able to enter into Samadhi and experience oneness with God. Why they are doing is fully penetrating the now to such an extent that all mind projections fall away and they are able to see things as they really are - infinite and without time and space.
-------------------- Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity. The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death. Tomorrow, when resurrection comes, The heart that is not in love will fail the test. ~ Rumi The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny. ~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir
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Jvells
Unity



Registered: 11/05/09
Posts: 3,031
Loc: East coast
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Re: If there is a creator...wouldnt something need to have created it also until it just 'became' [Re: Space Elf]
#22331667 - 10/04/15 08:15 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Space Elf said: The Universe is the Creator, IMO.
Exactly how I think. Im particularly referencing any religion that has any creator...particularly christianity and their belief in god...like i dont get how they find logic in the thought process of something making us. I mean sure its possible but that pattern ends somewhere rightv
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zzripz
Stranger


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Re: If there is a creator...wouldnt something need to have created it also until it just 'became' [Re: Jvells]
#22332084 - 10/04/15 10:29 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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your question is limiting you because it doesn't acknowledge that creator and creation are dynamic process, and not separate parts which can be independent of each other. Creator implies creation and vice verse
This dualistic assumption is exampled in Christianity and how believers will often say to those warned (pagans etc who are close to the land)not to worship the 'creation' but the 'creator'
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shroominated
Stranger

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Re: If there is a creator...wouldnt something need to have created it also until it just 'became' [Re: zzripz]
#22332362 - 10/04/15 11:51 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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the creator is also the destroyer constant building breaking down and rebuilding some would call it progress
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zZZz
jesus


Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 33,478
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Re: If there is a creator...wouldnt something need to have created it also until it just 'became' [Re: shroominated]
#22334697 - 10/04/15 08:50 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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when we find out the answer we'll laugh like mad men cuz we'll realize it cant ever be explained
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enlightened seed
Utopia is a state of mind



Registered: 05/04/07
Posts: 2,117
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Re: If there is a creator...wouldnt something need to have created it also until it just 'became' [Re: zZZz]
#22334898 - 10/04/15 09:38 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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we are probably just an experiment
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MajickMuffin
Edible Cult


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Re: If there is a creator...wouldnt something need to have created it also until it just 'became' [Re: impatientguy]
#22334902 - 10/04/15 09:38 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
impatientguy said: Lol a never ending cycle of creators
Thats how it works. And eventually we work our way up.
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Eggtimer
HotSauce Lover

Registered: 05/04/13
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Re: If there is a creator...wouldnt something need to have created it also until it just 'became' [Re: MajickMuffin]
#22336334 - 10/05/15 10:27 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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As above so below the word is ˈloʊɡoʊs/λόγος and it isn't really any different from you. you're it but this is the age of the demiurge(ego)
It's not the traditional god
"Paint me as a dead soul ... The flesh, the image, the reflection Let's complete the illusion" [John Balance]
There is a flame untamed Deep in my heart Unyielding, pure Ain Soph 'tis measureless Our right divine:
Aspire to all horizons To seek nature ov things Retreat within yourself To find the primal breath
Slaves ov the dead gods Martyrs ov the falsehood Your life is death now Engulfed by the wake ov a million years Welcome to Amenti
To perceive means to know To possess means to deny In the catacombs ov life Concealed within deaths vaults Pure vibration lies Nitya-samsarins Travel to the house ov empty words Am-Heh! devour their hearts!
Slaves ov the dead gods Martyrs ov the falsehood Your life is death now Engulfed by the wake ov a million years Welcome to Amenti
Jerusalem is falling! Falling! falling! Jerusalem is falling! Yerushalaim nehereset!
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And ere they give up the body unto its proper death, they turn them with disgust from its sensations, from knowledge of what things they operate. Nay, it is I, the Mind, that will not let the operations which befall the body, work to their [natural] end. For being door-keeper I'll close up [all] the entrances, and cut the mental actions off which base and evil energies induce.
23. But to the Mind-less ones, the wicked and depraved, the envious and covetous, and those who mured do and love impiety, I am far off, yielding my place to the Avenging Daimon, who sharpening the fire, tormenteth him and addeth fire to fire upon him, and rusheth upon him through his senses, thus rendering him readier for transgressions of the law, so that he meets with greater torment; nor doth he ever cease to have desire for appetites inordinate, insatiately striving in the dark.
Quote:
But they who do not understand the tidings, these, since they possess the aid of Reason [only] and not Mind, are ignorant wherefor they have come into being and whereby.
5. The senses of such men are like irrational creatures'; and as their [whole] make-up is in their feelings and their impulses, they fail in all appreciation of <lit.: "they do not wonder at"> those things which really are worth contemplation. These center all their thought upon the pleasures of the body and its appetites, in the belief that for its sake man hath come into being.
But they who have received some portion of God's gift, these, Tat, if we judge by their deeds, have from Death's bonds won their release; for they embrace in their own Mind all things, things on the earth, things in the heaven, and things above the heaven - if there be aught. And having raised themselves so far they sight the Good; and having sighted it, they look upon their sojourn here as a mischance; and in disdain of all, both things in body and the bodiless, they speed their way unto that One and Only One.
-------------------- It's all for the s
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DOTpeculiar
FOUND



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Re: If there is a creator...wouldnt something need to have created it also until it just 'became' [Re: Eggtimer]
#22338238 - 10/05/15 07:25 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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NO! the creator has always been you have to understand that we where created to worship and praise him.
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 If a man's wit be wandering, let him study the mathematics.
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