|
akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
Re: Why did the early universe expand? [Re: micro]
#22325339 - 10/02/15 07:20 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
micro said:
Quote:
xbloodwhipx said: Im still curious as to why the singularity existed in the first place...
Some silly planet was trying to determine the mass of the Higgs-Boson particle, unintentionally creating a black hole which ended up collapsing the planet into the size of a pea. This black hole eventually migrated toward the center of the galaxy where there were a bunch of other black holes, sucking all the mass of the galaxy slowly into it creating another, much bigger black hole. This had so much mass that it started moving other galaxies tword it, swllowing them up getting larger and larger and this continued its course until the entire universe was one black hole, creating a singularity that would later case the Big Bang :V
|
Envix
Avoidant Disorder



Registered: 11/04/08
Posts: 18,206
Last seen: 9 months, 25 days
|
Re: Why did the early universe expand? [Re: morrowasted]
#22325600 - 10/02/15 07:57 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
morrowasted said: According to the big bang theory, the first 10-34 involved the universe doubling in size 90 times- expanding faster than the speed of light- at which point it began expanding more slowly.
My question is- why did the universe expand in the first place? There don't appear to be any other instances of this happening.
I am not trying to not-so-subtly argue a creationist position here. I am sure someone out there- probably Koods- has an answer. But I can't find one online. Just more descriptions of what happened, but not any explanations of why it happened.
i think the reason it's difficult to pinpoint the cause of the big bang is because of our limited concept of time/space.
every century or so our current model time/space becomes completely flipped upside-down.
I wouldn't say that science is wrong, rather just incomplete. very incomplete when looking at problems of this magnitude.
it could be freakin anything, really. god, tmckenna's "great attracter at the end of time", the other side of a black hole from another universe, some scientists in a lab experimenting with a LHC in another universe. who knows dude. maybe the universe was created at the end of time and goes backwards and shrinks into a singularity, and we actually just experience time going in the opposite direction like how a mirror would reflect a mirror image in its reverse direction.
who fucking knows, dude
-------------------- smack a hoe out this dimension continue my ascension -bhad bhabie rip. todcasil, acid sloth, st1llnox, zappaisgod, big worm (sketch), tim b
|
DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
|
Re: Why did the early universe expand? [Re: morrowasted]
#22325666 - 10/02/15 08:09 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
.
Edited by DieCommie (11/14/16 06:49 PM)
|
Envix
Avoidant Disorder



Registered: 11/04/08
Posts: 18,206
Last seen: 9 months, 25 days
|
Re: Why did the early universe expand? [Re: DieCommie]
#22325969 - 10/02/15 09:08 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
yep i looked it up and the word "causality" is indeed a philosophical term. So is the law of cause & effect.
-------------------- smack a hoe out this dimension continue my ascension -bhad bhabie rip. todcasil, acid sloth, st1llnox, zappaisgod, big worm (sketch), tim b
|
akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
Re: Why did the early universe expand? [Re: Envix]
#22325979 - 10/02/15 09:11 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
"We cannot live for ourselves alone. Our lives are connected by a thousand invisible threads, and along these sympathetic fibers, our actions run as causes and return to us as results." - Herman Melville, author of Moby-Dick
|
DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
|
Re: Why did the early universe expand? [Re: Envix]
#22325983 - 10/02/15 09:12 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Envix said: yep i looked it up and the word "causality" is indeed a philosophical term. So is the law of cause & effect.
Hume, an old scottish philosopher, has some interesting points on the validity and nature of causality. I like those thoughts and generally think causality is a useless concept in many cases.
One of my least favorite phrases is "Correlation is not causation". Well if correlation is not causation then what is? Because correlation is the best we got. When we purport causation its because the correlation is high.
|
404
error


Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 14,539
|
Re: Why did the early universe expand? [Re: morrowasted]
#22325995 - 10/02/15 09:15 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
i thought there was something recently that hinted that the universe has always existed?
oh here it is
http://phys.org/news/2015-02-big-quantum-equation-universe.html
Quote:
(Phys.org) —The universe may have existed forever, according to a new model that applies quantum correction terms to complement Einstein's theory of general relativity. The model may also account for dark matter and dark energy, resolving multiple problems at once.
The widely accepted age of the universe, as estimated by general relativity, is 13.8 billion years. In the beginning, everything in existence is thought to have occupied a single infinitely dense point, or singularity. Only after this point began to expand in a "Big Bang" did the universe officially begin.
Although the Big Bang singularity arises directly and unavoidably from the mathematics of general relativity, some scientists see it as problematic because the math can explain only what happened immediately after—not at or before—the singularity.
"The Big Bang singularity is the most serious problem of general relativity because the laws of physics appear to break down there," Ahmed Farag Ali at Benha University and the Zewail City of Science and Technology, both in Egypt, told Phys.org.
Ali and coauthor Saurya Das at the University of Lethbridge in Alberta, Canada, have shown in a paper published in Physics Letters B that the Big Bang singularity can be resolved by their new model in which the universe has no beginning and no end.
Old ideas revisited
The physicists emphasize that their quantum correction terms are not applied ad hoc in an attempt to specifically eliminate the Big Bang singularity. Their work is based on ideas by the theoretical physicist David Bohm, who is also known for his contributions to the philosophy of physics. Starting in the 1950s, Bohm explored replacing classical geodesics (the shortest path between two points on a curved surface) with quantum trajectories.
In their paper, Ali and Das applied these Bohmian trajectories to an equation developed in the 1950s by physicist Amal Kumar Raychaudhuri at Presidency University in Kolkata, India. Raychaudhuri was also Das's teacher when he was an undergraduate student of that institution in the '90s.
Using the quantum-corrected Raychaudhuri equation, Ali and Das derived quantum-corrected Friedmann equations, which describe the expansion and evolution of universe (including the Big Bang) within the context of general relativity. Although it's not a true theory of quantum gravity, the model does contain elements from both quantum theory and general relativity. Ali and Das also expect their results to hold even if and when a full theory of quantum gravity is formulated.
No singularities nor dark stuff
In addition to not predicting a Big Bang singularity, the new model does not predict a "big crunch" singularity, either. In general relativity, one possible fate of the universe is that it starts to shrink until it collapses in on itself in a big crunch and becomes an infinitely dense point once again.
Ali and Das explain in their paper that their model avoids singularities because of a key difference between classical geodesics and Bohmian trajectories. Classical geodesics eventually cross each other, and the points at which they converge are singularities. In contrast, Bohmian trajectories never cross each other, so singularities do not appear in the equations.
In cosmological terms, the scientists explain that the quantum corrections can be thought of as a cosmological constant term (without the need for dark energy) and a radiation term. These terms keep the universe at a finite size, and therefore give it an infinite age. The terms also make predictions that agree closely with current observations of the cosmological constant and density of the universe.
New gravity particle
In physical terms, the model describes the universe as being filled with a quantum fluid. The scientists propose that this fluid might be composed of gravitons—hypothetical massless particles that mediate the force of gravity. If they exist, gravitons are thought to play a key role in a theory of quantum gravity.
In a related paper, Das and another collaborator, Rajat Bhaduri of McMaster University, Canada, have lent further credence to this model. They show that gravitons can form a Bose-Einstein condensate (named after Einstein and another Indian physicist, Satyendranath Bose) at temperatures that were present in the universe at all epochs.
Motivated by the model's potential to resolve the Big Bang singularity and account for dark matter and dark energy, the physicists plan to analyze their model more rigorously in the future. Their future work includes redoing their study while taking into account small inhomogeneous and anisotropic perturbations, but they do not expect small perturbations to significantly affect the results.
"It is satisfying to note that such straightforward corrections can potentially resolve so many issues at once," Das said.
|
akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
Re: Why did the early universe expand? [Re: DieCommie]
#22326009 - 10/02/15 09:17 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
DieCommie said:
Quote:
Envix said: yep i looked it up and the word "causality" is indeed a philosophical term. So is the law of cause & effect.
Hume, an old scottish philosopher, has some interesting points on the validity and nature of causality. I like those thoughts and generally think causality is a useless concept in many cases.
One of my least favorite phrases is "Correlation is not causation". Well if correlation is not causation then what is?
Delineation
|
DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
|
Re: Why did the early universe expand? [Re: akira_akuma]
#22326051 - 10/02/15 09:34 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Huh? I don't think that word means what you think it means.
From google;
Quote:
de·lin·e·a·tion diˌlinēˈāSH(ə)n/ noun 1. the action of describing or portraying something precisely. "the artist's exquisite delineation of costume and jewelry" 2. the action of indicating the exact position of a border or boundary. "the eventual delineation of the border between the two states"
I usually think of the second definition there when I think of the word. I can see no way that describing something precisely or indicating an exact position is causation.
|
akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
Re: Why did the early universe expand? [Re: DieCommie]
#22326062 - 10/02/15 09:39 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
no, it's correlation. not causation. any delineation could be seen as a point on a map/chart/ect. as correlations to the utmost causation; or it can be seen as any factual correlation of which it is a part of the culminated causation or event next it (the correlation next it).
could be maybe. maybe that's a stretch.
|
Envix
Avoidant Disorder



Registered: 11/04/08
Posts: 18,206
Last seen: 9 months, 25 days
|
Re: Why did the early universe expand? [Re: DieCommie] 1
#22326063 - 10/02/15 09:40 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
here's another translation of the word. i think it's originally a geographical terminology...
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/delineate
Quote:
delineate (third-person singular simple present delineates, present participle delineating, simple past and past participle delineated)
To sketch out, draw or trace an outline. To depict, represent with pictures. To describe or depict with words or gestures. To outline or mark out.
-------------------- smack a hoe out this dimension continue my ascension -bhad bhabie rip. todcasil, acid sloth, st1llnox, zappaisgod, big worm (sketch), tim b
|
musiclover420
psychonaut



Registered: 11/06/12
Posts: 19,563
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
|
Re: Why did the early universe expand? [Re: Envix]
#22326105 - 10/02/15 10:00 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I vote consciousness, the nothingness became aware of itself creating the duality of the universe and then started expanding.

Makes about as much sense as any other way of explaining how something can come from nothing 
Plus there is so much about consciousness we don't understand.
It's possible the lowest frequency/ vibration that permeates the universe is consciousness which our brains pick up on like an antenna.
Tesla believed something along those lines as did many other people and ancient cultures.
Just some food for thought. I would try to explain it better if I were no so
Edited by musiclover420 (10/02/15 10:04 PM)
|
akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
Re: Why did the early universe expand? [Re: musiclover420]
#22326135 - 10/02/15 10:09 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|

the universe brah, it's sound that started it.
|
musiclover420
psychonaut



Registered: 11/06/12
Posts: 19,563
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
|
Re: Why did the early universe expand? [Re: akira_akuma]
#22326184 - 10/02/15 10:22 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Indeed, I was too lazy/ baked to find a good example but that is a great one. Thanks 
I love breathing exercises, been wanting to get into chanting too and other cool stuff. Throat singing one day maybe
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
|
akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
Re: Why did the early universe expand? [Re: musiclover420]
#22326251 - 10/02/15 10:41 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
ever hear any Roomful of Teeth yet?
|
musiclover420
psychonaut



Registered: 11/06/12
Posts: 19,563
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
|
Re: Why did the early universe expand? [Re: akira_akuma]
#22326269 - 10/02/15 10:48 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
No interesting name though, is that a band or something?
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
|
akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
Re: Why did the early universe expand? [Re: musiclover420]
#22326274 - 10/02/15 10:50 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
it's a vocal group. check it out!
|
musiclover420
psychonaut



Registered: 11/06/12
Posts: 19,563
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
|
Re: Why did the early universe expand? [Re: akira_akuma]
#22326326 - 10/02/15 11:07 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Once I finish this Klockwerk Orange album Abracadabra I will check it out. Have you checked out Mongolia throat singing ever? Pretty crazy stuff.
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
|
akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
Re: Why did the early universe expand? [Re: musiclover420]
#22326344 - 10/02/15 11:12 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
never except in like Shpongle or whatever...but i'm hearing some now, it's definitely cool stuff, the original kind of music i mean.
and now this too
Edited by akira_akuma (10/02/15 11:17 PM)
|
musiclover420
psychonaut



Registered: 11/06/12
Posts: 19,563
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
|
Re: Why did the early universe expand? [Re: akira_akuma]
#22326484 - 10/03/15 12:05 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Roomful of teeth is definitely some interesting stuff.
That is some nice throat singing too
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
|
|