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Sivarted
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Crumbled cased cakes side pinning
#22321448 - 10/01/15 10:11 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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So I saw some posts about crumbling and casing cakes, and I'm trying all sorts of random shit to gain experience, so I figured I'd give that a shot, and I kinda fucked it up. You know, like I do. 
So here's the plastic shoebox I crumbled them into, using straight verm (cause that's what I had on hand at the time), verm on the bottom, 5 crumbled cakes (in a zip lock using a fork), and verm on top.

A few obvious things:
I may have gone heavy on the verm, both top and bottom.
I clearly did not crumble the cakes small enough (although to be perfectly fair that huge gap was mainly cause by a thick giant deformed shroom that was the result of the first side pin I saw). If I ever try this again I'll probably cheese grate em, but are you supposed to really try to pack and press the chunks together?
I didn't wait long enough to put it in my fruiting chamber. Myc started coming through the top, so I patched that and then a few days later thought I saw a lot more spots coming through so I fruited it, but I was clearly wrong about the "lots more".
So, as a result of all of these things, I've got a lot of side pins up against the edge of the tub, and I'm not sure what to do about that. Just let em grow and rip the thing apart trying to get them out when they're big, like I did with the first one?
The good news is that the top surface is pinning too:

It's a little hard to see in the pic, but there are 7 or 8 spots where pins or clusters of pins are pushing up through the verm casing, spread out over the surface of the entire tub.
Just not sure what to do about the side pins, and there are quite a lot of them. 
One option I've considered is pulling the whole beastie out of the tub and just setting it in the fc on a tray, and letting those suckered do whatever the heck they feel like doing. Bad idea?
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Sivarted
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Re: Crumbled cased cakes side pinning [Re: Sivarted]
#22321547 - 10/01/15 10:42 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Just came across this thread, where the OP took a mono tub substrate that was side pinning and moved it to a bigger tub and just let the side pins go crazy.
That's sort of leaning me towards the idea that pulling it all out of the shoebox, putting it on the lid instead, and just letting it do its thing might not be a bad idea after all.
Anybody tried anything like this before?
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Sivarted
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Re: Crumbled cased cakes side pinning [Re: Sivarted]
#22321551 - 10/01/15 10:43 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Here's the thread I'm talking about, meant to post a link and then spaced it. 
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/9463584#9463584
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cronicr



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Re: Crumbled cased cakes side pinning [Re: Sivarted]
#22321829 - 10/02/15 12:26 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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just leave it for now
--------------------
  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Sivarted
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Re: Crumbled cased cakes side pinning [Re: cronicr]
#22321900 - 10/02/15 01:00 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said: just leave it for now
And just dig into the sides to pick anything that grows down there?
It's not a mini mono or anything (9qt container would be truly mini), it's just a cased container fruiting in my sgfc, because I'm trying a bunch of different things. Cakes weren't even fresh before being crumbled, they had gone through two flushes as cakes, so my expectations aren't through the roof to begin with.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
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Re: Crumbled cased cakes side pinning [Re: Sivarted]
#22321922 - 10/02/15 01:13 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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let the top finish and then harvest the side pins
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Ilyana
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Re: Crumbled cased cakes side pinning [Re: cronicr]
#22322820 - 10/02/15 09:47 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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You've got side pins because light is hitting the cake bits, just carefully cover the outside of the container with duct tape, after you've harvested those little guys. Next time tape first, or line the container with an opaque trash can bag.
-------------------- read, read, and read some more!
Mushrooms & Stone Mandala
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iSmkGrnBud
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Re: Crumbled cased cakes side pinning [Re: Ilyana]
#22322989 - 10/02/15 10:39 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ilyana said: You've got side pins because light is hitting the cake bits, just carefully cover the outside of the container with duct tape, after you've harvested those little guys. Next time tape first, or line the container with an opaque trash can bag.
Light is not what causes side pinning, this is outdated information. Don't tape the outside of your tubs with duct tape, it's a waste of good tape. Just use liner from now on to help prevent any side pins.
-------------------- iSmkGrnBud's Teks iSmkGrnBud's Wild Mushroom Finds  The Noob Forum's List of Teks “The probability of success is difficult to estimate; but if we never search the chance of success is zero.” -Giuseppe Cocconi
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Sivarted
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Re: Crumbled cased cakes side pinning [Re: iSmkGrnBud]
#22323009 - 10/02/15 10:43 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
iSmkGrnBud said:
Quote:
Ilyana said: You've got side pins because light is hitting the cake bits, just carefully cover the outside of the container with duct tape, after you've harvested those little guys. Next time tape first, or line the container with an opaque trash can bag.
Light is not what causes side pinning, this is outdated information. Don't tape the outside of your tubs with duct tape, it's a waste of good tape. Just use liner from now on to help prevent any side pins. 
A liner wouldn't have prevented side pins in this case. The edges aren't even because of the crumbling. Which is why I think I'll grate instead of crumble if I try this again.
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Sivarted
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Re: Crumbled cased cakes side pinning [Re: Sivarted]
#22331440 - 10/04/15 06:12 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Well hello there
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taGyo
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Re: Crumbled cased cakes side pinning [Re: Sivarted]
#22331476 - 10/04/15 06:34 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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A liner would have helped,
The reason why they're popping like that is because they're not getting great surface conditions. I don't see your FAE holes which is a problem. People who get away with not using a liner fill in their substrate very well in the tub. As the tub gets colonized and the mycelium moves water around the sub contracts. Mycelium actually wraps around things and constricts.
It constricted and freed up the sides where humidity was better so it pinned there. I can get away with not using a liner but since I started using them I haven't gotten side pins.
As mentioned above, light is outdated info. Light is a secondary pinning trigger.
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows TNF Q&A AMU Q&A Dominus fortunae meae sum
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Sivarted
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Re: Crumbled cased cakes side pinning [Re: taGyo]
#22333156 - 10/04/15 03:02 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
taGyo said: A liner would have helped,
The reason why they're popping like that is because they're not getting great surface conditions. I don't see your FAE holes which is a problem. People who get away with not using a liner fill in their substrate very well in the tub. As the tub gets colonized and the mycelium moves water around the sub contracts. Mycelium actually wraps around things and constricts.
It constricted and freed up the sides where humidity was better so it pinned there. I can get away with not using a liner but since I started using them I haven't gotten side pins.
As mentioned above, light is outdated info. Light is a secondary pinning trigger.
It's an open tub in my SGFC, alongside my other remaining cakes. FAE shouldn't be an issue, unless having a tub in there interferes with the airflow, but everything growing in it looks really healthy, better even that what's growing on the cakes, which I suspect has to do with the extra casing moisture reservoir.
Because I crumbled the cakes instead of grating them, there are all sorts of gaps in the substrate that appear to be really good climates for pinning, and those gaps still would have been present with a liner, because they're not caused by the substrate pulling away from the sides, but because the chunks don't pack together perfectly. But the top surface is growing out quite nicely too, there are lots of clusters popping up that aren't quite visible in that last pic.
I'm not too worried about it, the mushrooms growing on the side are going to be a little bit of a pain, but it's made from cakes that had already produced a couple flushes, meant to be more of a learning experience with casing than anything else, and I'm really happy with what it's doing.
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enlightened seed
Utopia is a state of mind



Registered: 05/04/07
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Re: Crumbled cased cakes side pinning [Re: Sivarted]
#22333244 - 10/04/15 03:23 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sivarted said: So I saw some posts about crumbling and casing cakes, and I'm trying all sorts of random shit to gain experience, so I figured I'd give that a shot, and I kinda fucked it up. You know, like I do. 
So here's the plastic shoebox I crumbled them into, using straight verm (cause that's what I had on hand at the time), verm on the bottom, 5 crumbled cakes (in a zip lock using a fork), and verm on top.

A few obvious things:
I may have gone heavy on the verm, both top and bottom.
I clearly did not crumble the cakes small enough (although to be perfectly fair that huge gap was mainly cause by a thick giant deformed shroom that was the result of the first side pin I saw). If I ever try this again I'll probably cheese grate em, but are you supposed to really try to pack and press the chunks together?
I didn't wait long enough to put it in my fruiting chamber. Myc started coming through the top, so I patched that and then a few days later thought I saw a lot more spots coming through so I fruited it, but I was clearly wrong about the "lots more".
So, as a result of all of these things, I've got a lot of side pins up against the edge of the tub, and I'm not sure what to do about that. Just let em grow and rip the thing apart trying to get them out when they're big, like I did with the first one?
The good news is that the top surface is pinning too:

It's a little hard to see in the pic, but there are 7 or 8 spots where pins or clusters of pins are pushing up through the verm casing, spread out over the surface of the entire tub.
Just not sure what to do about the side pins, and there are quite a lot of them. 
One option I've considered is pulling the whole beastie out of the tub and just setting it in the fc on a tray, and letting those suckered do whatever the heck they feel like doing. Bad idea?
painting the sides and bottom of the fruiting container would help.
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Sivarted
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Re: Crumbled cased cakes side pinning [Re: Sivarted]
#22336536 - 10/05/15 11:32 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Now I'm just posting progress pics on this thing, cause it's working out better than I expected even though it's technically third flush on the cakes, and I screwed everything up. 
This morning

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Sivarted
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Re: Crumbled cased cakes side pinning [Re: Sivarted]
#22336544 - 10/05/15 11:34 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Already has a bunch of new pins pushing through for another round too. Been giving it plenty of misting and fanning.
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FreeWorldOrder


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Re: Crumbled cased cakes side pinning [Re: Sivarted]
#22336730 - 10/05/15 12:19 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sivarted said:
Quote:
iSmkGrnBud said:
Quote:
Ilyana said: You've got side pins because light is hitting the cake bits, just carefully cover the outside of the container with duct tape, after you've harvested those little guys. Next time tape first, or line the container with an opaque trash can bag.
Light is not what causes side pinning, this is outdated information. Don't tape the outside of your tubs with duct tape, it's a waste of good tape. Just use liner from now on to help prevent any side pins. 
A liner wouldn't have prevented side pins in this case. The edges aren't even because of the crumbling. Which is why I think I'll grate instead of crumble if I try this again.
A liner may not prevent all of them but it will certainly help...
-------------------- "They who can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin Lets Grow Mushrooms Videos PastyWhyte's Easy Agar TEK Agar's Liquid Inoculant TEK
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FreeWorldOrder


Registered: 12/24/13
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painting the sides and bottom of the fruiting container would help.
Like stated above.... this is outdated info. Painting the container would be the same a duct taping it...lol. Side pinning occurs due to the micro-climate between the substrate and container. That is why we use a liner. Un-taped, so the liner sticks to the substrate as it shrinks...
-------------------- "They who can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin Lets Grow Mushrooms Videos PastyWhyte's Easy Agar TEK Agar's Liquid Inoculant TEK
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Sivarted
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Appreciate all the advice about how to prevent side pinning even though it's not really applicable in this case. (A liner would not have prevented side pins because of the way I made the tub)
Mostly I was wondering how to handle them hopefully without tearing things up too much since they are happening, and intrigued by the idea of pulling the whole thing out onto a tray. So far I've just kinda been teeing it up cause there have been some pretty sizable ones growing in the sides.
Like I said, not too worried about it, I was just messing around anyway, and don't expect a ton more production out of it anyway. Already on track for getting more than I hoped out of it anyway, and that biggest cap is almost two inches across, getting a nice fat print from it right now.
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