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Invisibleluvdemboomers
loner with a boner
Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 5,054
Re: Shooting at Oregon college [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22338279 - 10/05/15 07:38 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
he was just giving his opinion. :shrug: then you all immediately went for the jugular.



I'm ignoring you after I hit submit


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Registered: 08/28/09
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Re: Shooting at Oregon college [Re: luvdemboomers]
    #22338301 - 10/05/15 07:44 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

ok. what does that mean?


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OfflineShroomslip
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Re: Shooting at Oregon college [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #22338316 - 10/05/15 07:48 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
he was just giving his opinion. :shrug: then you all immediately went for the jugular.



It's not that he's giving his opinion, it's that he's giving his misguided opinion as if it were fact. He's free to his opinion all he wants just as I'm free to say it's a stupid one.

Guarantee if he were in a class that was taken over by a gunman he'd be freaking out and praying to god, even if he doesn't believe in god, that someone would do something to save him. He wouldn't be sitting there saying "well it sure is a good thing other students don't have guns or this could get messy!"


--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way.
I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today.
Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear.
I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear.


You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being
With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline


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OfflineAdolin
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Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 06/28/11
Posts: 8,292
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Re: Shooting at Oregon college [Re: Adolin]
    #22338321 - 10/05/15 07:49 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Gresh said:
does anyone else find it strange that this shooting took place on a college campus in 2015, yet there is no footage of it? not even shitty grainy cellphone footage or CCTV, which virtually every college has




anyone at all?


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Shooting at Oregon college [Re: Shroomslip] * 1
    #22338330 - 10/05/15 07:51 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

he's just thinking in a less mandatory way about possible outcomes. i don't think he was stating his opinion's as fact. i don't see it. he was just conversing. :shrug:

you don't need to stop on my account though, go right ahead, continue.


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Invisibleluvdemboomers
loner with a boner
Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 5,054
Re: Shooting at Oregon college [Re: Adolin]
    #22338338 - 10/05/15 07:53 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Gresh said:
Quote:

Gresh said:
does anyone else find it strange that this shooting took place on a college campus in 2015, yet there is no footage of it? not even shitty grainy cellphone footage or CCTV, which virtually every college has




anyone at all?




yes


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Invisiblemillzy
Male

Registered: 05/12/10
Posts: 12,404
Re: Shooting at Oregon college [Re: luvdemboomers] * 2
    #22338343 - 10/05/15 07:55 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

you guys really need to learn how to discuss issues. just because i disagree with your points doesn't mean i'm a coward or that i'm uninformed any more than it means that you're a bunch of trigger happy morons, which in no way am i painting you to be. i see the reasons for wanting armed civilians where mass shootings occur. it just seems to me that doing so creates even more safety concerns than it resolves.

let's just suppose that arming students and teachers substantially reduces the damage caused by school shootings. what follows from having more armed students and teachers? one consequence will be that, inevitably, someone on a college campus with open or concealed carry will accidentally get their head blown off. that's not because gun owners are stupid people; it's because guns go off accidentally. but what about stupid gun owners? what about college kids with guns? is it really that out there to imagine a scenario when some bro fucks some other bro's chick and the dude decides to blow bro number one's brains all over the classroom and then his own in the heat of the moment? what about a teacher who loses his mind and decides to take out his shithead class who is always making his job harder than it should be? those may seem like typical school shooting scenarios, but there is an important distinction: in these scenarios the shooters are legally armed. how would you even distinguish a potential shooter before it's too late if everyone has guns? this solution simply does not make anyone safer, and in some important ways makes us less safer than before.

do i have a solution to the problem of mass shootings? admittedly, i don't. at this point nobody seems to. that doesn't mean that arming virtually everyone is a good idea.


--------------------
I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger


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Invisiblemillzy
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Posts: 12,404
Re: Shooting at Oregon college [Re: Shroomslip] * 2
    #22338359 - 10/05/15 07:59 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomslip said:
It's not that he's giving his opinion, it's that he's giving his misguided opinion as if it were fact. He's free to his opinion all he wants just as I'm free to say it's a stupid one.

Guarantee if he were in a class that was taken over by a gunman he'd be freaking out and praying to god, even if he doesn't believe in god, that someone would do something to save him. He wouldn't be sitting there saying "well it sure is a good thing other students don't have guns or this could get messy!"




you can label my opinions as misguided, but you fail to sufficiently back your claims. and again, it's really hard to take anything you say seriously when you attempt to paint me as a coward because i disagree with your solution. truth be told, i don't even know what i would be thinking if someone just ran into my classroom blasting. i probably wouldn't even have time to think, which is part of the basis of my concerns, as mentioned before.


--------------------
I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger


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Invisible404
error
 User Gallery

Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 14,539
Re: Shooting at Oregon college [Re: deucedbi9] * 1
    #22338377 - 10/05/15 08:04 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

deucedbi9 said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Shroomslip said:
I'd rather take my chance with the crossfire than be executed.



That is seriously one of the stupidest posts I have ever seen here and I have seen a bunch.




Yes, but not quite as stupid as this one>

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
If one other person in that classroom had a gun a lot of lives would have been saved.




So students should go to class carrying guns? :brilliant:
Not like that would lead to more them being shot in school is it, when some kid takes offence at something someone said/did/thought...bang.

Maybe the tutor should be the one carrying the gun, again, fucking :brilliant:
Like the lunatic wouldn't know where the teacher might be sitting would he, you know, cos he's a lunatic and incapable of reasoning.

The lunatics always seem to be suicidal, in that they often save a bullet for themselves. They just want to take people out with them, so the fact their going to die that day is neither here nor there.






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Invisibleluvdemboomers
loner with a boner
Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 5,054
Re: Shooting at Oregon college [Re: millzy] * 1
    #22338384 - 10/05/15 08:06 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

millzy said:
you guys really need to learn how to discuss issues. just because i disagree with your points doesn't mean i'm a coward or that i'm uninformed any more than it means that you're a bunch of trigger happy morons, which in no way am i painting you to be. i see the reasons for wanting armed civilians where mass shootings occur. it just seems to me that doing so creates even more safety concerns than it resolves.

let's just suppose that arming students and teachers substantially reduces the damage caused by school shootings. what follows from having more armed students and teachers? one consequence will be that, inevitably, someone on a college campus with open or concealed carry will accidentally get their head blown off. that's not because gun owners are stupid people; it's because guns go off accidentally. but what about stupid gun owners? what about college kids with guns? is it really that out there to imagine a scenario when some bro fucks some other bro's chick and the dude decides to blow bro number one's brains all over the classroom and then his own in the heat of the moment? what about a teacher who loses his mind and decides to take out his shithead class who is always making his job harder than it should be? those may seem like typical school shooting scenarios, but there is an important distinction: in these scenarios the shooters are legally armed. how would you even distinguish a potential shooter before it's too late if everyone has guns? this solution simply does not make anyone safer, and in some important ways makes us less safer than before.

do i have a solution to the problem of mass shootings? admittedly, i don't. at this point nobody seems to. that doesn't mean that arming virtually everyone is a good idea.





We are not talking about arming people. We are talking about letting armed people stay armed when they go to school.  You don't see people with permits on the news all the time being charged for murder because they follow the law. I don't have a link but there was a study that showed that people with concealed carry permits are less likely to break the law than your average citizen that doesn't. Guns very very rarely go off on their own. It's called accidental discharge for a reason... the person with the gun fucked up. And that's almost always when you handle the gun and don't follow safety precautions. It's near impossible for most modern pistols to go off accidently when it's sitting in a proper holster on your waist On top of there being nothing to hit the trigger most pistols have one or more safeties. Around here I believe 3% of people have carry permits. That's a far cry from everyone. You're acting like a shooter is gonna start shooting and then all 102 students in the classroom and are gonna stand up and start shooting at each other, that's ridiculous. And pretty much all school shootings have been done with rifles or shotguns... so it's pretty easy... the guy shooting multiple people with the long gun is the bad guy.


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OfflineShroomslip
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Re: Shooting at Oregon college [Re: millzy]
    #22338398 - 10/05/15 08:10 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Gresh said:
Quote:

Gresh said:
does anyone else find it strange that this shooting took place on a college campus in 2015, yet there is no footage of it? not even shitty grainy cellphone footage or CCTV, which virtually every college has




anyone at all?



Not really but I don't make a habit of trying to find shit like that. If there's talk of the video or something I might go try to find it just so I know what everyone is talking about (last time it happened was that reporter thing) but in absence of talk of video, I don't go looking for it.

I don't find it strange there is no cell video shot from within the classroom. All those people were just hoping to get to live, they aren't gonna do something that might piss him off and make him shoot them first. Also possible there were no cameras in the classroom or even near it.
Quote:

millzy said:
do i have a solution to the problem of mass shootings? admittedly, i don't. at this point nobody seems to. that doesn't mean that arming virtually everyone is a good idea.



Arming virtually everyone wouldn't happen anyways. No one is proposing guns be handed out with their class schedule. The same people who would be armed in class would probably be the same ones that are armed at Wal-mart or out cruising around on errands.

Actually I'd prefer it if there weren't people forcibly armed. Most concealed carry people are dedicated to learning to use the gun effectively. They go to the range quite often, and many practice drawing and dry firing their gun for at least an hour or two a month minimum. They aren't just cowboys strapping on a revolver and firing wildly when shit goes down. They know what they're doing because they've been practicing for quite awhile. Admittedly they will probably be nervous the first time they have to pull the gun (and maybe even times after that) but they are far more capable than someone who was just handed a gun and told they may need to use it someday.
Quote:

millzy said:
Quote:

Shroomslip said:
It's not that he's giving his opinion, it's that he's giving his misguided opinion as if it were fact. He's free to his opinion all he wants just as I'm free to say it's a stupid one.

Guarantee if he were in a class that was taken over by a gunman he'd be freaking out and praying to god, even if he doesn't believe in god, that someone would do something to save him. He wouldn't be sitting there saying "well it sure is a good thing other students don't have guns or this could get messy!"




you can label my opinions as misguided, but you fail to sufficiently back your claims. and again, it's really hard to take anything you say seriously when you attempt to paint me as a coward because i disagree with your solution. truth be told, i don't even know what i would be thinking if someone just ran into my classroom blasting. i probably wouldn't even have time to think, which is part of the basis of my concerns, as mentioned before.



I didn't call you a coward. I said your opinion that it's better for the students to not have guns and just put all their lives on the whim of the shooter is stupid logically.

Gunman didn't run in blasting. He tormented them. He had conversations with them. You'd have time to think "I wish someone would do something" probably at least a few dozen times before you finally ate the bullet.

What am I supposed to back up? That holsters are specifically designed to make quick retrieval of a concealed carry weapon as easy as reaching behind you and grabbing? That it's easily possible to pull it out while sitting? I shouldn't really have to. I gave you the worst case imaginable to pull out a gun without getting caught, and he still did it. That still isn't sufficient evidence someone could pull a gun out in a much more ideal situation to you. I don't have my CCW so I don't have a holster to record myself doing what you are trying to claim is impractical. Go to a gun forum, go to the concealed carry section, read. A large percentage of the threads in that section are all about holsters and which make for the easiest and quickest retrieval possible. Holsters that don't work, don't get bought.


--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way.
I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today.
Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear.
I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear.


You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being
With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline


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Invisiblemillzy
Male

Registered: 05/12/10
Posts: 12,404
Re: Shooting at Oregon college [Re: luvdemboomers] * 1
    #22338415 - 10/05/15 08:13 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

you are making a meaningless distinction boomers. allowing open or concealed carry would undoubtedly put more armed people on campus; if it didn't then why is allowing open or concealed carry even a viable solution to you?

you're also mischaracterizing my position. i am not saying that allowing concealed carry would create scenarios in which everyone in class is armed. but it would certainly increase the numbers of armed students and staff. and it would also increase the numbers of shooters in a mass shooting scenario. both of these factors are problematic in my view.

you seem to be hedging your bets on nothing bad ever happening, which is an extremely dangerous premise to base any solution top any problem on.


--------------------
I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger


Edited by millzy (10/05/15 08:14 PM)


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Registered: 08/28/09
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Re: Shooting at Oregon college [Re: Shroomslip]
    #22338418 - 10/05/15 08:14 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

yeah, i think that...you know what i think...you're like using like mad pathos to swell the conversion here between mad piles of data, bro, like you just wanna have it be your way or the high way, you know what i'm saying man? :fasted:


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OfflineShroomslip
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Re: Shooting at Oregon college [Re: millzy]
    #22338420 - 10/05/15 08:15 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Why would it create a substantially higher amount of concealed carriers? What do you base that on? You think people who want to carry guns simply aren't because they can't do it at school? People who don't already have their CCW either can't get one or don't want one. All the people inclined to carry, get them, regardless of where they can or cannot carry.

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
yeah, i think that...you know what i think...you're like using like mad pathos to swell the conversion here between mad piles of data, bro, like you just wanna have it be your way or the high way, you know what i'm saying man? :fasted:




No.. No one ever knows what you're saying honestly.


--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way.
I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today.
Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear.
I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear.


You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being
With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline


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Invisibleluvdemboomers
loner with a boner
Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 5,054
Re: Shooting at Oregon college [Re: millzy] * 1
    #22338447 - 10/05/15 08:21 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

millzy said:
you are making a meaningless distinction boomers. allowing open or concealed carry would undoubtedly put more armed people on campus; if it didn't then why is allowing open or concealed carry even a viable solution to you?

you're also mischaracterizing my position. i am not saying that allowing concealed carry would create scenarios in which everyone in class is armed. but it would certainly increase the numbers of armed students and staff. and it would also increase the numbers of shooters in a mass shooting scenario. both of these factors are problematic in my view.

you seem to be hedging your bets on nothing bad ever happening, which is an extremely dangerous premise to base any solution top any problem on.




So one guy with a gun wanting to kill as many people as possible in a classroom full of 100 unarmed defenseless people is better than than one guy with a gun wanting to kill as many people as possible in a classromm of 97 unarmed people and 3 armed people that don't want people getting killed? Am I getting that right? Do you realize how illogical that is?


Edited by luvdemboomers (10/05/15 08:23 PM)


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Shooting at Oregon college [Re: Shroomslip]
    #22338450 - 10/05/15 08:22 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

LOL adhominem butthurtedness galore.

you can't understand? let me clarify. calling him stupid, cause "...your logic is stupid as fuck honestly", is really unnecessary, and i'm trying to be coy here and ask you if you could kindly have a nice cup of :stfu:.

and try talking to him less like some sort of criminal or reprobate.

you need to be talked to like one now.


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Invisiblemillzy
Male

Registered: 05/12/10
Posts: 12,404
Re: Shooting at Oregon college [Re: Shroomslip] * 2
    #22338453 - 10/05/15 08:23 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomslip said:

I didn't call you a coward. I said your opinion that it's better for the students to not have guns and just put all their lives on the whim of the shooter is stupid logically.




you implied i was a coward by saying that i would wish for someone with a gun to be in class when a mass shooting occurs.

Quote:

What am I supposed to back up? That holsters are specifically designed to make quick retrieval of a concealed carry weapon as easy as reaching behind you and grabbing? That it's easily possible to pull it out while sitting? I shouldn't really have to. I gave you the worst case imaginable to pull out a gun without getting caught, and he still did it. That still isn't sufficient evidence someone could pull a gun out in a much more ideal situation to you. I don't have my CCW so I don't have a holster to record myself doing what you are trying to claim is impractical. Go to a gun forum, go to the concealed carry section, read. A large percentage of the threads in that section are all about holsters and which make for the easiest and quickest retrieval possible. Holsters that don't work, don't get bought.




and again, like boomers, you're hedging your bets on nothing bad ever happening, and you're using anecdotal evidence to back your claims. better holsters and luck does not completely stop people from getting hurt when guns are involved. putting all of that at play during an actual fire fight makes it even less likely.

Quote:

Shroomslip said:
Why would it create a substantially higher amount of concealed carriers? What do you base that on? You think people who want to carry guns simply aren't because they can't do it at school?




if you are telling me that people wouldn't bring guns on campus if it were allowed then your solution is null to begin with, as mentioned. beyond that, it doesn't take an expert to see that that is exactly what would happen if open and concealed carry was allowed. if something that was formerly prohibited is suddenly permitted, more people are going to do it. that's human nature.


--------------------
I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger


Edited by millzy (10/05/15 08:26 PM)


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Invisibleluvdemboomers
loner with a boner
Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 5,054
Re: Shooting at Oregon college [Re: millzy]
    #22338458 - 10/05/15 08:24 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

millzy said:

if you are telling me that people wouldn't bring guns on campus if it were allowed then your solution is null to begin with, as mentioned. beyond that, it doesn't take an expert to see that that is exactly what would happen if open and concealed carry was allowed. if something that was formerly prohibited is suddenly permitted, more people are going to do it. that's human nature.




Most people with permits, which is roughly 2-3% of people.


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Invisiblemillzy
Male

Registered: 05/12/10
Posts: 12,404
Re: Shooting at Oregon college [Re: luvdemboomers]
    #22338465 - 10/05/15 08:25 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemboomers said:

So one guy with a gun wanting to kill as many people as possible in a classroom full of 100 unarmed defenseless people is better than than one guy with a gun wanting to kill as many people as possible in a classromm of 97 unarmed people and 3 armed people that don't want people getting killed? Am I getting that right? Do you realize how illogical that is?




no, you didn't get it right at all. two shooters in a room full of people is worse than one. that's what i'm saying. if we have to have two shooters in a room full of people, i would prefer the one trying to save the people be a trained professional because the outcome would likely be better.


--------------------
I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger


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Invisiblemillzy
Male

Registered: 05/12/10
Posts: 12,404
Re: Shooting at Oregon college [Re: luvdemboomers]
    #22338467 - 10/05/15 08:25 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemboomers said:
Quote:

millzy said:

if you are telling me that people wouldn't bring guns on campus if it were allowed then your solution is null to begin with, as mentioned. beyond that, it doesn't take an expert to see that that is exactly what would happen if open and concealed carry was allowed. if something that was formerly prohibited is suddenly permitted, more people are going to do it. that's human nature.




Most people with permits, which is roughly 2-3% of people.




okay. so why is this even a viable solution?


--------------------
I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger


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