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eatyualive
Eat's You Alive :)



Registered: 08/17/01
Posts: 19,026
Loc: In Your Head
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Re: taping holes in monotubs/casing at spawning [Re: filthyknees]
#22442024 - 10/27/15 08:40 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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update
Tub 3

light source is to the sides of the tub down the middle of the stack. not sure im liking this light setup. all the fruits are moving towards it.
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azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
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Re: taping holes in monotubs/casing at spawning [Re: eatyualive]
#22442035 - 10/27/15 08:42 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Well they obviously like the light!
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eatyualive
Eat's You Alive :)



Registered: 08/17/01
Posts: 19,026
Loc: In Your Head
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Re: taping holes in monotubs/casing at spawning [Re: azur]
#22442071 - 10/27/15 08:47 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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yeah its just the fruits are moving sideways 
i usually have the light directly above the tubs. had to tear down the grow room so when i put it back up tried something different.
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eatyualive
Eat's You Alive :)



Registered: 08/17/01
Posts: 19,026
Loc: In Your Head
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Re: taping holes in monotubs/casing at spawning [Re: eatyualive]
#22445549 - 10/28/15 03:58 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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just to reiterate "your tubs don't need to be dialed in" to have success. 10 ways to skin a cat.
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FriedEgg



Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 2,536
Loc: Taiwan
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Re: taping holes in monotubs/casing at spawning [Re: eatyualive]
#22445564 - 10/28/15 04:02 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Nice job. When did you spawn that tub?
-------------------- (Yes, the egg is real)
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eatyualive
Eat's You Alive :)



Registered: 08/17/01
Posts: 19,026
Loc: In Your Head
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Re: taping holes in monotubs/casing at spawning [Re: FriedEgg]
#22445599 - 10/28/15 04:17 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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posted the answer one page earlier. http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22437935#22437935
also the tubs i spawned a few days ago are already popping through the casing. this was done exactly as stated in the original post.
these were cased and spawned 10.24.2015. so we are 4 days in. AA again. From cornmeal LI prepared spawn.

I am also going to finally open up this thread because i think its relevant.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22445600/vc/1#22445600
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: taping holes in monotubs/casing at spawning [Re: eatyualive]
#22448399 - 10/29/15 09:04 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Three MS B+ tubs going in 6qt dubs.
Tub one was put straight into fruiting 12 days ago, it's starting to pin. My second tub, which was given ten days to colonize was put into fruiting 2 days ago, it's knotting up. My third tub, I'm letting consolidate until it pins.
All three tubs were given a top layer of CVG.
Here's a little pin from tub one.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
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Re: taping holes in monotubs/casing at spawning [Re: paperbackwriter]
#22448682 - 10/29/15 10:42 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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 Did you mist any of them?
My tub that had its first pin in 7 days colonized in 3 days and i misted from then on
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: taping holes in monotubs/casing at spawning [Re: azur]
#22448967 - 10/29/15 12:08 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yea, I'm misting a couple times a day if they look like they need it.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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FriedEgg



Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 2,536
Loc: Taiwan
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Re: taping holes in monotubs/casing at spawning [Re: paperbackwriter]
#22449296 - 10/29/15 01:38 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Update on some poly-spawned experiments im running
GT clone, (uncased) with top layer of CVG applied at spawn. poly at spawn. this one might be pretty good. it seems to be moving along at the same schedule as the other GT but has way more knotting than the uncased tub (probably because of the top layer). pic taken +8 days after spawning
 
GT clone, uncased, poly at spawn. knots were visible 7 days after spawning. first pin visible 10 days after spawning. damn i hate uncased tubs  pic taken +15 days after spawning
 
PE MS, taped at spawn, cased with 50/50 at 100%, then immediately fruited. knots visible 14 days after spawning pic taken +14 days after spawning

PE MS, poly at spawn, cased with 50/50 at spawn. i think it's starting to knot up but im not 100% sure yet. pic taken +5 days after spawning

PE MS, poly at spawn. almost done colonizing. i think if i mixed it evenly, it would have been done by now. pic taken +5 days after spawning

PE MS pic taken +2 days after spawning

APE MS pic taken +2 days after spawning

damn azur, how do you do it? PE pins in 7 days? wtf man i'm barely starting to see knots form on my PE tub and im 5 days in. i can't imagine seeing a pin in 2 more days. you must be using a very fast culture and a high spawn ratio, yea?
-------------------- (Yes, the egg is real)
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azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
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Re: taping holes in monotubs/casing at spawning [Re: FriedEgg]
#22449326 - 10/29/15 01:52 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hey man. You're doing great. If you're seeing knots in 5 days, a pin will sprout soon. I use a 1:1 ratio. I also used hpoo. And I've got pe down. They're nothing new to me. So what are your thoughts so far? Liking this way or not?
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FriedEgg



Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 2,536
Loc: Taiwan
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Re: taping holes in monotubs/casing at spawning [Re: azur]
#22449349 - 10/29/15 02:00 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
azur said: Hey man. You're doing great. If you're seeing knots in 5 days, a pin will sprout soon. I use a 1:1 ratio. I also used hpoo. And I've got pe down. They're nothing new to me. So what are your thoughts so far? Liking this way or not?
thanks 
1:1? ahhh thats probably why. i bet that shaves off a few days. i'm using a 1:2 or 1:2.5 ratio. and yea this is my first time growing PE. i'm definitely liking it so far. i thought i would risk drying things out with the poly at spawn but nope... looking at the standard way (taping until 100% / casing / fruiting at 30%), i can already tell it's several days faster. and it's simpler too 
next time, i'll up my spawn ratio to 1:1 and sterilize my cvg and see if that helps speed things up a bit.
-------------------- (Yes, the egg is real)
How to post pics
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azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
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Re: taping holes in monotubs/casing at spawning [Re: FriedEgg]
#22449448 - 10/29/15 02:30 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Shweet. Keep us updated here please.
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Achillita
Back to the basics



Registered: 05/26/14
Posts: 4,565
Last seen: 3 years, 10 days
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Re: taping holes in monotubs/casing at spawning [Re: azur]
#22449564 - 10/29/15 03:02 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
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Re: taping holes in monotubs/casing at spawning [Re: Achillita]
#22449570 - 10/29/15 03:04 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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ok got som isolates readay going to grain to give this a shot. Things i'm looking for are colonizing times pinning times total harvest.
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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eatyualive
Eat's You Alive :)



Registered: 08/17/01
Posts: 19,026
Loc: In Your Head
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Re: taping holes in monotubs/casing at spawning [Re: FriedEgg]
#22450485 - 10/29/15 06:44 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
FriedEgg said:
Quote:
azur said: Hey man. You're doing great. If you're seeing knots in 5 days, a pin will sprout soon. I use a 1:1 ratio. I also used hpoo. And I've got pe down. They're nothing new to me. So what are your thoughts so far? Liking this way or not?
thanks 
1:1? ahhh thats probably why. i bet that shaves off a few days. i'm using a 1:2 or 1:2.5 ratio. and yea this is my first time growing PE. i'm definitely liking it so far. i thought i would risk drying things out with the poly at spawn but nope... looking at the standard way (taping until 100% / casing / fruiting at 30%), i can already tell it's several days faster. and it's simpler too 
next time, i'll up my spawn ratio to 1:1 and sterilize my cvg and see if that helps speed things up a bit.
My tubs run in 3 days 1:2 even PE and ape. Warm temps 76-78 degrees. They still take forever to pin though.
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FriedEgg



Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 2,536
Loc: Taiwan
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Re: taping holes in monotubs/casing at spawning [Re: eatyualive]
#22450884 - 10/29/15 08:08 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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what kind of spawn?
-------------------- (Yes, the egg is real)
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eatyualive
Eat's You Alive :)



Registered: 08/17/01
Posts: 19,026
Loc: In Your Head
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Re: taping holes in monotubs/casing at spawning [Re: FriedEgg]
#22451138 - 10/29/15 09:01 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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update 5 days in.
these were cased and spawned 10.24.2015. AA again. From cornmeal LI prepared spawn.
Tub 1:
  Tub 2:

Tub 3:

Tub 4:
  sux when pins popup ill be on vacation. 
Edited by eatyualive (10/29/15 09:15 PM)
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azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
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Re: taping holes in monotubs/casing at spawning [Re: eatyualive]
#22452459 - 10/30/15 06:48 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Better pins on vacation than harvest time on vacation, which is what always happens to me!
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Re: taping holes in monotubs/casing at spawning [Re: eatyualive]
#22452722 - 10/30/15 08:45 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Alright azur. I got a theory for the results you and many other's are experiencing with this old and lost gem of a concept that you have enlightened us with.
From my findings, I have shown that temperature differentials fluctuate from hour to hour and from day to day. These temperature differentials follow the circadian rhythm and local climate, with higher differentials coming at peak hour of the day and for lower differentials coming just before the crack of dawn. Temperature differentials are important because they represent the same thing that co2 concentration represents, the rate of metabolism. There for, we can say that the higher the temp diff, the higher the co2 concentration.
During the first 24 hours after spawning the tub, the spawn begins to recover and temperatures are becoming more stabalized. In fact, my data shows that average daily temperature differentials during the first 3 days do not fluctuate all that much.
8/12 +3.5*F 8/13 +3.3*F 8/14 +3.5*F 8/15 +3.8*F
What I've noticed is that most of the colonization of the substrate can be observed during the first 3-4 days after spawning. Days 5 - 7 or 8 (full colonization) it seems as though I'm always waiting for 1 or 2 small spots to finish up. So the first half of the spawn run stage (days 1-4), the oxygen levels are high and co2 levels are low which is ideal for mycelium metabolism. The second half of the spawn run stage (days 5-8), the rate of metabolism slows down dramatically as temperature differentials increase. If temp diff are high then so are co2 levels. Is it coincidence that during those last 4 days of spawn run, the average daily temperature differentials increase rapidly and metabolism slows down rapidly?
8/16 +4.2*F 8/17 +4.1*F 8/18 +4.0*F 8/19 +4.2*F
That high co2 concentration is choking the system and is counter productive when comparing the results between tape vs no tape during spawn run
When a person holds their breath for an extended period of time, the first thing that person does after exhaling is taking a deep breath, maybe even a few of them until finally their breathing becomes stabalized. Mycelium metabolism is fueled by oxygen just like ours and when co2 concentration is high and oxygen levels are low, metabolism is slowed and the network is stressed. When untaping the holes of a monotub to introduce FAE, temperature differentials rapidly increase. With temperature differentials increasing from +5.0*F to +7.4*F in that first 4 hour period after introducing fresh air and then finally stabalizing 4 hours after that which it went back down to +5.0*F again.
I can't help but think that that type of shock to the system is yet another period of counter productivity. Most likely not as detrimental as choking the system with high co2/low o2 levels during the spawn run but still an added delay to pinning. Because those types of rapid temperature increases overwork the system and probably stress the mycelium network and a stressed network is not as productive.
As the mycelium begins to produce hyphal knots, temps increase to a point before dropping back off again and begin climbing back up after pin formation and continues to increase through maturity of mushrooms. If co2 levels are represented by temperature than that would mean that as mushrooms grow, the network is working harder and needs more oxygen to metabolise the substrate to feed the mushroms, the nutrients, they need to grow. If this is the case than it may be most productive to maintain a certain temperature differential throughout the cycle of a monotub. So as temperature differentials increase, we should counter this by increasing flow rate. And this is exactly what most ,in this community, do when they loosen or take out the polyfil in the top holes during maturation of the pinset. With my understanding of natural ventilation, increasing outlet hole size will increase flow rate while decreasing inlet hole size increases speed and distance of incoming jet stream. So when taking poly out of top holes, one is simply increasing flow rate which is increasing o2 levels and lowering co2 levels.
I will be spawning 4 tubs today which gives me the opportunity to track temperature differential trends for the tape vs no tape experiment. I will be using my AA+ agar pin clone and will have 2 tubs with tape and 2 tubs with no tape. I will only be able to track trends for 1 tub from each pair. The data collected from the observation run should give me a basis for a multi-stage ventilation system that has no counter productive periods during the cycle of a monotub.
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