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OfflinePsyche delics
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Why do different psychedelics give us different trips
    #22315651 - 09/30/15 06:37 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Dont they all just increase serotonin why would it be different serotonins serotonin?? Just curius any input apreciated.


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OfflineGoldenEye
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Re: Why do different psychedelics give us different trips [Re: Psyche delics]
    #22315660 - 09/30/15 06:40 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

http://www.coursera.org - there is this free course called "drugs and the brain"


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Invisiblefilthyknees
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Re: Why do different psychedelics give us different trips [Re: GoldenEye]
    #22315674 - 09/30/15 06:44 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

what


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OfflinePsyche delics
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Re: Why do different psychedelics give us different trips [Re: GoldenEye]
    #22315753 - 09/30/15 06:57 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

GoldenEye said:
http://www.coursera.org - there is this free course called "drugs and the brain"



Cool ill deffinatly check that out.


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OfflinePsyche delics
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Re: Why do different psychedelics give us different trips [Re: filthyknees]
    #22315773 - 09/30/15 07:00 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

For example if you took lsd you would have a different trip than on shrooms they both increase serotonin so why are they different?


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OfflineSalviaGod
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Re: Why do different psychedelics give us different trips [Re: Psyche delics]
    #22315895 - 09/30/15 07:22 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Where did you hear that all tripping is is serotonin?
Cuz thats not even a little bit true.


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OfflineGoldenEye
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Re: Why do different psychedelics give us different trips [Re: SalviaGod]
    #22315910 - 09/30/15 07:27 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

He probably heard about serotonin receptors but forgot about the receptor part. Or hasn't got the slightest clue about biochemistry and never knew what a receptor is in the first place. Hence my course suggestion.


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Why do different psychedelics give us different trips [Re: Psyche delics]
    #22315973 - 09/30/15 07:42 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Psyched delics said:
Dont they all just increase serotonin why would it be different serotonins serotonin?? Just curius any input apreciated.




:dafuq:

No, they don't do that.


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OfflinePsyche delics
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Re: Why do different psychedelics give us different trips [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #22316158 - 09/30/15 08:24 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

No I know about receptors doesnt the psilocin or lsd or whatever bind to the seritonin receptors to cause and upregulation in seretonin, doesnt it?  Idk im a noob


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Edited by Psyche delics (09/30/15 08:25 PM)


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Why do different psychedelics give us different trips [Re: Psyche delics]
    #22316214 - 09/30/15 08:39 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Study it a bit, you'll get it. :thumbup:


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InvisibleStygianKnight
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Re: Why do different psychedelics give us different trips [Re: Psyche delics]
    #22316245 - 09/30/15 08:45 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

If they have different effects, yet it's thought that they all increase serotonin, then one of these statements is false.
Either they don't have different effects or they don't all do the same thing.

The answer of course is it's not nearly that simple.
There are more than one type of serotonin receptor (they are very similar but just different enough to matter), and different shaped psychedelics interact with them to different degrees.
Tryptamine based psychedelics are agonists (they activate) specific serotonin receptors, which causes increased firing and runaway activity.
Mushrooms and DMT could be considered the most 'pure' tryptamine psychedelics in that they are the closest to serotonin.
Acid mimics multiple types of transmitters and thus interacts with a slightly different set of receptors.

When you are talking about increase in serotonin my guess is you are confusing reuptake reversal which happens with certain psychedelics and especially MDMA related drugs.  This is where pumps which slurp up serotonin in the synaptic gaps are made to pump it back out, which can both activate the neuron and make it more likely to fire when stimulated.
Given reversal can be psychedelic, and/or enhance psychedelics, I can see the confusion.


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OfflinePsyche delics
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Re: Why do different psychedelics give us different trips [Re: StygianKnight]
    #22316312 - 09/30/15 09:00 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Cool thanks for clearing that up, all this shits interesting as hell.


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Offlinephishindub
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Re: Why do different psychedelics give us different trips [Re: Psyche delics]
    #22317132 - 10/01/15 01:19 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

IMO easiest answer would be different chemicals give different effects on the brain. Just how different benzo's opiates and even cannabis give different effects.


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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: Why do different psychedelics give us different trips [Re: Psyche delics]
    #22318534 - 10/01/15 10:52 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

The answer is that many have slightly different affinities for serotonergic receptor subtypes including the 5-HT2A receptor. More importantly, its what happens AFTER binding to the receptor. Its likely each activates different second messenger systems to different degrees, resulting in a different physiological response.


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...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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Re: Why do different psychedelics give us different trips [Re: badchad]
    #22318971 - 10/01/15 12:36 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

It also needs to be said that the half life and activation time of different drugs is different, and this, in combination with the spread of receptors, creates a different sort of experience over time as the components ebb and flow.


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Why do different psychedelics give us different trips [Re: Psyche delics]
    #22319344 - 10/01/15 02:10 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Its a lot more complex than that.

Psychedelic substances have different subjective trips because the chemical affects specific parts of the brain on specific neurotransmitter receptor sites.

Some mimic serotonin (like mushrooms/DMT), others are more complex in action (like LSD and mescaline).

Also, no two trips are the same since how they interact in our brains varies everytime. Plus our metabolism and current mind set and physical setting affect our trips heavily as well.

Here's an interesting article on shrooms: http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/1113185028/magic-mushroom-biological-basis-070414/


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Why do different psychedelics give us different trips [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #22319630 - 10/01/15 03:15 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

It's more complicated than that even.  OP would be well served by just calling up "psilocybin mushrooms", "psilocybin", and "psilocin" on Wiki and reading about pharmocology (as well as "baeocystin" and  "norbaeocystin" though these haven't been studied much). 

Psilocin activates more than just serotonin receptor sites, 5-HT, 5-HT1A, 5-HT1D, and 5-HT2C, it also (wiki):

Quote:

indirectly increases the concentration of the neurotransmitter dopamine in the basal ganglia, and some psychotomimetic symptoms of psilocin are reduced by haloperidol, a non-selective dopamine receptor antagonist. Taken together, these suggest that there may be an indirect dopaminergic contribution to psilocin's psychotomimetic effects.[20] In contrast to LSD, which binds to dopamine receptor D2, psilocybin and psilocin have no affinity for the dopamine D2 receptors.[1]




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OfflineGoldenEye
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Re: Why do different psychedelics give us different trips [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #22320074 - 10/01/15 05:12 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

And it's infinitely more complex than that even. We don't know shit about how the brain works yet. Let alone psychedelics which practically haven't been studied.


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Why do different psychedelics give us different trips [Re: GoldenEye]
    #22320112 - 10/01/15 05:22 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Let's not go there, though.  :timeofneed:


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Re: Why do different psychedelics give us different trips [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #22322186 - 10/02/15 05:24 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Fair enough :tongue:

OP, it's all lock and key. Psychs are the key, receptors are the locks. Different keys fit into different locks. Some keys fit but don't open the lock. Some get stuck in the lock for a while.

That's the easiest analogy I have.


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