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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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InvisibleKurt
Thinker, blinker, writer, typer.

Registered: 11/26/14
Posts: 1,688
American Tradition
    #22314842 - 09/30/15 03:47 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

"America is the original version of modernity. We are the dubbed or subtitled version. America ducks the question of origins; it cultivates no origin or mythical authenticity; it has no past and no founding truth. Having known no primitive accumulation of time, it lives in a perpetual present."

Jean Baudrillard





Though I do not consider myself versed, I think I am able to inquire of the condions of my thinking acting and existing, and I cannot doubt that being an American is crucial to this. Probably this is fundamental, one way or another.

Perhaps this should seem a condition too broad to question, but I cannot believe that. Suppose these conditions are not just suggested by any specific present political affiliation, or by any criticism of them in general. Suppose a critical attitude, must by its only possibility turn to some kind of historical or philosophical self awareness?

Though we deign to evoke tradition, is there something unique to speak of? This thread is for anyone who would like to speak to that prospect, or be critical. With some reserved optimism, at least to inquire and wonder, I'll quote the poet Walt Whitman:

Quote:


AMERICA does not repel the past or what it has produced under its forms or amid other politics or the idea of castes or the old religions . . . . accepts the lesson with calmness . . . is not so impatient as has been supposed that the slough still sticks to opinions and manners and literature while the life which served its requirements has passed into the new life of the new forms . . . perceives that the corpse is slowly borne from the eating and sleeping rooms of the house . . . perceives that it waits a little while in the door . . . that it was fittest for its days . . . that its action has descended to the stalwart and wellshaped heir who approaches . . . and that he shall be fittest for his days.





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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: American Tradition [Re: Kurt] * 1
    #22314946 - 09/30/15 04:06 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I could say a lot about America, but I doubt it will be well received, so suffice it to say that I feel we are extremely shallow culturally, and primarily, almost exclusively, interested in the acquisition of money, which we do through extremely dubious means.  That said, I shall submit some quotations:



Quote:

"[Like Rome in the later stages of the Empire, the U.S. is] a similarly soulless, politically corrupt, everybody-for-himself civilization." --Arthur Koestler


"Our Congress has been hijacked by corporate America and its enforcer, the imperial military machine.... We have allowed our institutions to be taken over in the name of a globalized American empire that is totally alien in concept to anything our founders had in mind. I suspect it is far too late in the day for us to restore the republic that we lost a half-century ago." --Gore Vidal


"Our material success is our punishment, in terms of what the success has done to the natural environment, our social fabric, and our personal lives." --Robert Bellah




--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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InvisiblehTx
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Registered: 03/27/13
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Re: American Tradition [Re: DividedQuantum] * 1
    #22315708 - 09/30/15 06:51 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

What you say above, definitely applies to a lot, possibly even the majority of Americans.

However, with one extreme, another is born.

There are a number of subcultures which may have spawned in direct response to what you say above.

Ive met them, had many conversations with many different types of people..i think that because of the exteme materialist, mainstream media fed culture of people, there exists its polar opposite..

And this is why America seems to be the birthplace of so much art and novel movement.

Diamonds are born under pressure.


--------------------
zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes
Light up the darkness.


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InvisibleKurt
Thinker, blinker, writer, typer.

Registered: 11/26/14
Posts: 1,688
Re: American Tradition [Re: hTx]
    #22316651 - 09/30/15 10:26 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks for the thoughts guys; I'll let them steep a bit.


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: American Tradition [Re: Kurt]
    #22318100 - 10/01/15 09:26 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

What other subcultures?

Also I would have to agree with the perpetual present aspect of it. The "history" of us is rather short compared to that of the natives.


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As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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OfflineSoul journey 879
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Registered: 08/12/15
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Re: American Tradition [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22334731 - 10/04/15 08:56 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Incredible, "diamonds are made under pressure."
"His views, the basis of Transcendentalism, suggested that God does not have to reveal the truth but that the truth could be intuitively experienced directly from nature.[147]When asked his religious belief, Emerson stated, “I am more of a Quaker than anything else. I believe in the ‘still, small voice,’ and that voice is Christ within us.”[148]However, Emerson maintained that reform would be achieved through moral agreement rather than by militant action. " - Wikipedia
Just like all people around the world, we live in an incredible country. We are the ones that make it incredible. There are many wisdoms that shaped America to have freedom from tradition ways of ruling and governing. Breaking away from the old traditions of monarchy of Europe and mixing with this native culture. It is tragic, our history but I have hope for humanity. Native American peoples hold a great wisdom, living on this land and connecting with this tradition, the tradition of all these people. This rainbow wisdom, combing all the knowledge that is accessible and learning from each other, we can live with great harmony.


Edited by Soul journey 879 (10/04/15 08:58 PM)


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: American Tradition [Re: Soul journey 879]
    #22334797 - 10/04/15 09:10 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

You make some interesting points, but first we will need to stop oppressing the Indians.  We still do it to this day, almost as severely as ever.  Reservations are like third world countries, and nobody cares.  They don't have any rights or any money, and their prospects are shit.  We could start by giving them their billions in reparations that the Bureau of Indian affairs owes the tribes, but we can't even manage that.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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OfflineSoul journey 879
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Re: American Tradition [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22335290 - 10/04/15 11:46 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Wow, very true.


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OfflineSoul journey 879
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Re: American Tradition [Re: Soul journey 879]
    #22335331 - 10/05/15 12:06 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

What can we do?


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OfflineHippocampus
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Re: American Tradition [Re: Kurt] * 1
    #22335435 - 10/05/15 01:16 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I think in the beginning of America there was hope like the hope for a new child that it could become president or an astronaut.  Being unfettered by tradition meant that any individual could seek and find their fortune, and a new sort of meritocracy and individualism could thrive.  But as time went on the last 200 years, those individuals whose merit allowed their amassing of great wealth set up more of a plutocracy; equating meritocracy with capitalism.  As the wealth of America became more concentrated in the hands of fewer individuals the masses wanted more.  The plutocracy deigned to give them the scraps and called it socialism, thus further removing merit from success.  Now America is a country of people who think they are snowflakes and are entitled to a living.  Merit matters less and less in a system of strict hierarchy designed by those with power and money to keep the power and money in their hands only.  The system prevents those with merit from achieving their goals, thus stripping them of the possibility to find their own fortune and contribute to their country in a meaningful way.  The self serving hierarchy preserved the power structure and wealth for the few but undermines the overall success of the nation.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: American Tradition [Re: Hippocampus]
    #22336428 - 10/05/15 10:57 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Very true, Hippocampus.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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