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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
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Re: Why don't market forces work for healthcare? [Re: starfire_xes]
#22326276 - 10/02/15 10:52 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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starfire_xes said:
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Bigbadwooof said:
I am not a fan of excessive government power. I agree with you on that. Socialism only works when the people have a firm grip on their government.
I am not a fan of excessive government power. I agree with you on that. Capitalism only works when the people have a firm grip on their government.
You see, it works both ways.
True. I guess, the way I see it, people have to have a firm grasp on their workplace to have a firm grasp on government. Concentration of money and power in corporations and in government are destructive.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



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Re: Why don't market forces work for healthcare? [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22327251 - 10/03/15 08:51 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Then why did Russia end up in EXACTLY the same condition you are describing?
because when you're dealing in "theory", you can come up with any result you want, when dealing in the real world and the consequences of centralized power, you get exactly what you described...
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,857
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Why don't market forces work for healthcare? [Re: starfire_xes]
#22327373 - 10/03/15 09:38 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
starfire_xes said: well, hey there homer, remember the stuff about the PO? Maybe 'mandates' are now making healthcare more expensive. 
do you remember? As i recall, its was thoroughly shown that the USPS is a functioning social program that competes effectively with private competition.
How about the LADWP? were you in on that convo? Again, much like the USPS, LADWP is profitable, while providing the same services as private competitors, and helping to fund the gov't.
As for the ACA, there is really nothing socialist about it. It is corporate welfare for insurance companies, plain and simple. The ACA is a perfect example of the thesis, antithesis, synthesis, scam that is perpetuated by the 2 party system.
Dems: we need single payer healthcare. Republicans: no, we need government to stay out of healthcare compromise(?): We need the government to force private citizens to buy individual healthcare policies from private insurers.
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The Ecstatic
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Registered: 11/11/09
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Re: Why don't market forces work for healthcare? [Re: hostileuniverse]
#22327437 - 10/03/15 10:02 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
Then why did Russia end up in EXACTLY the same condition you are describing?
because when you're dealing in "theory", you can come up with any result you want, when dealing in the real world and the consequences of centralized power, you get exactly what you described...
So why don't we cede that centralized power to the people instead of 0.01% of the population?
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hostileuniverse
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Re: Why don't market forces work for healthcare? [Re: The Ecstatic]
#22327460 - 10/03/15 10:07 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
Then why did Russia end up in EXACTLY the same condition you are describing?
because when you're dealing in "theory", you can come up with any result you want, when dealing in the real world and the consequences of centralized power, you get exactly what you described...
So why don't we cede that centralized power to the people instead of 0.01% of the population?
oh you mean the govt? Im with you on that one, the govt is way to big, centralized, corrupt, and out of control...
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


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Re: Why don't market forces work for healthcare? [Re: hostileuniverse]
#22327552 - 10/03/15 10:31 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yes, the government. Unless you know of another mechanism the people can use to push common goals...
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burgerbrain
Freedom Lover


Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 962
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Re: Why don't market forces work for healthcare? [Re: ballsalsa]
#22327559 - 10/03/15 10:33 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said:
Quote:
starfire_xes said: well, hey there homer, remember the stuff about the PO? Maybe 'mandates' are now making healthcare more expensive. 
do you remember? As i recall, its was thoroughly shown that the USPS is a functioning social program that competes effectively with private competition.
How about the LADWP? were you in on that convo? Again, much like the USPS, LADWP is profitable, while providing the same services as private competitors, and helping to fund the gov't.
As for the ACA, there is really nothing socialist about it. It is corporate welfare for insurance companies, plain and simple. The ACA is a perfect example of the thesis, antithesis, synthesis, scam that is perpetuated by the 2 party system.
Dems: we need single payer healthcare. Republicans: no, we need government to stay out of healthcare compromise(?): We need the government to force private citizens to buy individual healthcare policies from private insurers.
USPS is profitable? HAHAHAHAHA Good joke.
The United States Postal Service has run up $4 billion in losses so far this year, on top of last year’s $15.9 billion deficit. Congress is considering legislation to rearrange the deck chairs on the postal Titanic. The only solution is for Washington to get out of the mail business. http://www.forbes.com/sites/dougbandow/2013/08/12/the-post-office-is-broke-its-time-to-end-washingtons-postal-monopoly/
U.S. Postal Service Records Second Quarter Loss of $1.9 Billion Urges Congress to Pass Comprehensive Postal Legislation WASHINGTON — The U.S. Postal Service ended the second quarter of its 2014 fiscal year (Jan. 1, 2014 – March 31, 2014) with a net loss of $1.9 billion. This marks the 20th of the last 22 quarters it has sustained a loss. https://about.usps.com/news/national-releases/2014/pr14_031.htm
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Why don't market forces work for healthcare? [Re: burgerbrain]
#22327572 - 10/03/15 10:37 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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It's already been explained ad nauseum why the USPS is running losses.
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burgerbrain
Freedom Lover


Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 962
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Re: Why don't market forces work for healthcare? [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22327585 - 10/03/15 10:39 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Now that the big government is taking over our lives, we can now all celebrate the fact that we are safe and comfy.
I feel good that the government now has an all-access-pass to my medical records.
I personally would never smoke Marijuana because it is illegal. My blood is free of drugs - how about you?
I'm so glad our big government is protecting each and everyone of us. I personally don't have the mental capacity to think for myself - therefore I need the government to help me. Thanks big brother!
I'll feel much better when the government tells us which foods to eat and which herbs to ingest. Can't wait! Thanks Liberals! - the_conservatarian
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
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Re: Why don't market forces work for healthcare? [Re: burgerbrain]
#22329178 - 10/03/15 04:16 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
burgerbrain said: on top of last year’s $15.9 billion deficit.
Every time you fucking talk, I feel like you're hurting the IQ of everyone who reads the fucking horse shit you post.
USPS never ran a $16 billion deficit.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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burgerbrain
Freedom Lover


Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 962
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Re: Why don't market forces work for healthcare? [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22329238 - 10/03/15 04:29 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
burgerbrain said: on top of last year’s $15.9 billion deficit.
Every time you fucking talk, I feel like you're hurting the IQ of everyone who reads the fucking horse shit you post.
USPS never ran a $16 billion deficit.
You may want to write a letter to the editor of Forbes magazine, seems you disagree with their info.
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
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Re: Why don't market forces work for healthcare? [Re: burgerbrain]
#22329428 - 10/03/15 05:14 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
burgerbrain said:
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
burgerbrain said: on top of last year’s $15.9 billion deficit.
Every time you fucking talk, I feel like you're hurting the IQ of everyone who reads the fucking horse shit you post.
USPS never ran a $16 billion deficit.
You may want to write a letter to the editor of Forbes magazine, seems you disagree with their info.
Link it, and I just might do that, because that is a flat out lie! lmao
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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burgerbrain
Freedom Lover


Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 962
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Re: Why don't market forces work for healthcare? [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22329883 - 10/03/15 07:24 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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"Send corrections to corrections@forbes.com" http://www.forbes.com/fdc/contact.html
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 30 minutes, 57 seconds
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Re: Why don't market forces work for healthcare? [Re: burgerbrain]
#22330373 - 10/03/15 09:29 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
burgerbrain said: "Send corrections to corrections@forbes.com" http://www.forbes.com/fdc/contact.html
Link me the article that says that they ran 16 billion under last year, and I'll be sure to do that, because that is a lie.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,857
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Why don't market forces work for healthcare? [Re: burgerbrain]
#22330503 - 10/03/15 09:51 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ok, i fact checked the 15.9 billion number, and it is technically true. here is what happened
Quote:
Due to the passage of P.L. 112-33 which changed the due date of the scheduled PSRHBF prefunding payment of $5.5 billion originally due by Sep. 30, 2011 into 2012, PSRHBF expenses were zero in 2011. As a result, total PSRHBF expenses in 2012, including the previously scheduled prefunding payment of $5.6 billion due by Sep. 30, 2012, were $11.1 billion
http://about.usps.com/publications/annual-reports/2012/annual-report-2012.pdf
https://about.usps.com/news/national-releases/2013/pr13_087.htm
Quote:
WASHINGTON — The U.S. Postal Service ended the 2013 fiscal year (Oct. 1, 2012 – Sept. 30, 2013) with a net loss of $5 billion. This marks the 7th consecutive year in which the Postal Service incurred a net loss, highlighting the need to continue to capitalize on growth opportunities, reduce costs, and enact comprehensive legislation to provide a long-term solution to the agency’s financial challenges.
Even though the Postal Service has implemented a number of strategies that resulted in $15 billion in annual expense reductions since the Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act was passed in 2006, the combination of onerous mandates in existing law and continued First-Class Mail volume declines threatens the Postal Service’s financial viability.
“We’ve achieved some excellent results for the year in terms of innovations, revenue gains and cost reductions, but without major legislative changes we cannot overcome the limitations of our inflexible business model,” said Patrick Donahoe, Postmaster General and Chief Executive Officer. “Congress is moving forward with legislation that has the potential to give us greater flexibility and put us back on a firm financial footing, and we strongly encourage that they continue moving forward.”
https://about.usps.com/news/national-releases/2014/pr14_059.htm
Quote:
At the Board meeting, the Postal Service reported that operating revenue increased $569 million in fiscal year 2014 (Oct. 1, 2013 – Sept. 30, 2014). Excluding a one-time adjustment to revenue of $1.3 billion in 2013 resulting from a change in accounting estimate for Forever stamps, 2014 operating revenue would have increased by $1.9 billion. This revenue growth resulted from the January 2014 price increase and strong growth in the Shipping and Packages business. Offsetting this positive news, however, were legislative burdens and constraints that contributed to a $5.5 billion net loss in 2014. This eighth consecutive annual net loss underscores the need for comprehensive legislation to repair the Postal Service’s broken business model.
so, you can see, that these losses are directly tied to the prefunding requirement. basically, they are being forced to sock away much more than necessary, and any money that isn't paid out to retirees each year is loaned to the gov't at roughly 3%. If the USPS is doing so poorly, why does congress want to skim its retirement fund so heavily?
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Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 30 minutes, 57 seconds
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Re: Why don't market forces work for healthcare? [Re: ballsalsa]
#22330633 - 10/03/15 10:23 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said: Ok, i fact checked the 15.9 billion number, and it is technically true. here is what happened
Quote:
Due to the passage of P.L. 112-33 which changed the due date of the scheduled PSRHBF prefunding payment of $5.5 billion originally due by Sep. 30, 2011 into 2012, PSRHBF expenses were zero in 2011. As a result, total PSRHBF expenses in 2012, including the previously scheduled prefunding payment of $5.6 billion due by Sep. 30, 2012, were $11.1 billion
http://about.usps.com/publications/annual-reports/2012/annual-report-2012.pdf
https://about.usps.com/news/national-releases/2013/pr13_087.htm
Quote:
WASHINGTON — The U.S. Postal Service ended the 2013 fiscal year (Oct. 1, 2012 – Sept. 30, 2013) with a net loss of $5 billion. This marks the 7th consecutive year in which the Postal Service incurred a net loss, highlighting the need to continue to capitalize on growth opportunities, reduce costs, and enact comprehensive legislation to provide a long-term solution to the agency’s financial challenges.
Even though the Postal Service has implemented a number of strategies that resulted in $15 billion in annual expense reductions since the Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act was passed in 2006, the combination of onerous mandates in existing law and continued First-Class Mail volume declines threatens the Postal Service’s financial viability.
“We’ve achieved some excellent results for the year in terms of innovations, revenue gains and cost reductions, but without major legislative changes we cannot overcome the limitations of our inflexible business model,” said Patrick Donahoe, Postmaster General and Chief Executive Officer. “Congress is moving forward with legislation that has the potential to give us greater flexibility and put us back on a firm financial footing, and we strongly encourage that they continue moving forward.”
https://about.usps.com/news/national-releases/2014/pr14_059.htm
Quote:
At the Board meeting, the Postal Service reported that operating revenue increased $569 million in fiscal year 2014 (Oct. 1, 2013 – Sept. 30, 2014). Excluding a one-time adjustment to revenue of $1.3 billion in 2013 resulting from a change in accounting estimate for Forever stamps, 2014 operating revenue would have increased by $1.9 billion. This revenue growth resulted from the January 2014 price increase and strong growth in the Shipping and Packages business. Offsetting this positive news, however, were legislative burdens and constraints that contributed to a $5.5 billion net loss in 2014. This eighth consecutive annual net loss underscores the need for comprehensive legislation to repair the Postal Service’s broken business model.
so, you can see, that these losses are directly tied to the prefunding requirement. basically, they are being forced to sock away much more than necessary, and any money that isn't paid out to retirees each year is loaned to the gov't at roughly 3%. If the USPS is doing so poorly, why does congress want to skim its retirement fund so heavily?
We've already been over this. The USPS is functioning perfectly fine, and creating a profit. They are being forced to put away $5.5 billion a year unnecessarily, and Republicans want to say they are running a deficit.
It is funny, because they say they are doing this to keep the postal service solvent in the future, but in reality it is making it insolvent today.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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burgerbrain
Freedom Lover


Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 962
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Re: Why don't market forces work for healthcare? [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22331199 - 10/04/15 02:14 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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"We've already been over this. The USPS is functioning perfectly fine, and creating a profit." -Bigbadwooof
Derp derp derp from your own link "This eighth consecutive annual net loss underscores the need for comprehensive legislation to repair the Postal Service’s broken business model."
How does an annual net loss mean that USPS is "functioning perfectly fine, and creating a profit"? HAHAHHA LOL Socialists aren't very bright.
How can we have meaningful discussion when even the basic facts elude socialists?
Edited by burgerbrain (10/04/15 02:38 AM)
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


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Re: Why don't market forces work for healthcare? [Re: burgerbrain]
#22333609 - 10/04/15 05:06 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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How many times can someone point out a fact until you accept it?
But no, the "HAHA HAHA LOL SOCIALISTS" crowd is the one looking for meaningful discussion.
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
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Re: Why don't market forces work for healthcare? [Re: burgerbrain]
#22335430 - 10/05/15 01:12 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
burgerbrain said: "We've already been over this. The USPS is functioning perfectly fine, and creating a profit." -Bigbadwooof
Derp derp derp from your own link "This eighth consecutive annual net loss underscores the need for comprehensive legislation to repair the Postal Service’s broken business model."
How does an annual net loss mean that USPS is "functioning perfectly fine, and creating a profit"? HAHAHHA LOL Socialists aren't very bright.
How can we have meaningful discussion when even the basic facts elude socialists?
Do you even understand why they wrote that in the article?
Whatever dude. Your confirmation bias is astounding. Its like you have a logic filter.
Let me ask, real quick, are you an evangelical young earth creationist also?
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Why don't market forces work for healthcare? [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22336205 - 10/05/15 09:20 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: I'm talking about single payer vs the Capitalist style healthcare system we have.
The Socialist system is MUCH more efficient.
how exactly do you define efficient?
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