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OfflineAnnoA
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Buy, don't dry legal mushroom loophole
    #2231326 - 01/09/04 04:11 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/content/N...3A22%3A42%3A833

Buy, don't dry legal mushroom loophole


January 8, 2004 12:22

A SHOP in Norwich has exploited a legal loophole to sell hallucinogenic magic mushrooms.

Head in the Clouds in Pottergate is legally selling fresh mushrooms of various strengths and said demand for them had been "phenomenal".

It is perfectly legal to sell the mushrooms if they are fresh. It is only once they have been dried-out or "altered by the hand of man" they become a class A drug.

Police today warned people would face jail if they dried the mushrooms out.

Drug action groups also urged the store to be responsible in who it sold the mushrooms to and the quantity they allowed them to buy.

The mushrooms are not addictive, but health experts warn overuse could lead to mental problems among vulnerable people.

Head in the Clouds are selling the mushrooms for as little as ?10 for 20g, and a worker there said they had contacted the Home Office before putting them on sale.

"The Home Office said it was legal to sell fresh mushrooms as long as they were not dried or touched by the hand of man," said the female worker, who asked not to be named.

"As long as they are fresh they can be sold. It's been phenomenal. In the UK the consumption of mushrooms has overtaken Amsterdam and Germany."

The varieties on sale include Mexican, Cubensis and the stronger Philosopher's Stone type ? a truffle which grows on the roots of normal mushrooms.

An undercover Evening News reporter bought ?10 of Mexican mushrooms. Half of the quantity sold "should result in a "trip" of four to six hours, leading to uncontrollable giggling and colourful visuals".

Penny McVeigh, chief executive of alcohol and drug service Norcas, said: "They are selling this stuff for a particular reason and it seems to me they haven't thought to give people any advice on the taking of these substances.

"But it's a well established city shop that has been there for a long time so I'm sure they wouldn't do anything which would risk that."

But Head In The Clouds, which specialises in New Age products, said it was doing all it could to give people responsible advice, but admitted the mushrooms could be misused.

"There is a chance that people can to something with them that isn't legal," said the worker.

"We do give people advice, but there's only so many who will listen to you."

Steve Rolls, a spokesman for drug policy thinktank Transform, added: "All drugs are potentially dangerous, including magic mushrooms.

"The voluntary regulation we have is a step in the right direction, but what is required is a legal regulatory framework to ensure quality of product so people know how strong they are."

PC Richard Price, force drugs co-ordinator with Norfolk police, said there were only a handful of prosecutions each year for possession of magic mushrooms.

But he said people drying-out the fungus to create a more powerful hallucinogen were in possession of a class A drug ? on a par with heroin or cocaine.

"Once the mushroom is dried out or cooked it goes through a cycle change," he said.

"The psilocybin (a chemical within the mushroom) then becomes fully psycho-active.

"When they are fresh you would probably vomit on the quantity eaten before you get any hallucinogenic experience. If you pick them and eat them it is legal and there's nothing the police can do about them."


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OfflineSorceroom
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Re: Buy, don't dry legal mushroom loophole [Re: Anno]
    #2231504 - 01/09/04 05:16 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Argh! 'They' are trying so hard to change the law! Wont take long.


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Offlineamyloid
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Re: Buy, don't dry legal mushroom loophole [Re: Anno]
    #2231784 - 01/09/04 07:16 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

wait till good ol' george doublyeh heres bout them comfounded foreeners. the ink should be dry by next week.


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"A human being is part of a whole, called by us the Universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings, as something separated from the rest--a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circles of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty."
-Al Einstein


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Buy, don't dry legal mushroom loophole [Re: Anno]
    #2231801 - 01/09/04 07:25 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

>"When they are fresh you would probably vomit on the quantity eaten before you get any hallucinogenic experience."

Yeah, sure.....


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OfflinePhatSlacker
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Re: Buy, don't dry legal mushroom loophole [Re: Anno]
    #2231851 - 01/09/04 07:49 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

In florida the law about being dried is the same i belive, would a store like this work here? I cant stop thinking about the money that could be made doing this.


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InvisibleHarveyWalbanger
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Re: Buy, don't dry legal mushroom loophole [Re: PhatSlacker]
    #2231915 - 01/09/04 08:22 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

*WHAP* ...... NO, you'll be arrested... AND its not about the money, cock....


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Invisiblechodamunky
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Re: Buy, don't dry legal mushroom loophole [Re: HarveyWalbanger]
    #2231925 - 01/09/04 08:29 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

lol, that was sort of mean but witty  :smile:  I hope more countries can catch on to this growing trend though hell will freeze over before something like this happens in north america.


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OfflinePhatSlacker
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Re: Buy, don't dry legal mushroom loophole [Re: chodamunky]
    #2231934 - 01/09/04 08:31 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Why cant you do in it North america if its not illegal?


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OfflinePhatSlacker
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Re: Buy, don't dry legal mushroom loophole [Re: PhatSlacker]
    #2232018 - 01/09/04 09:03 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

i got this off erowid.com,
Florida: Florida stands out because of a decision in 1978 in Fiske v Florida by the Florida Supreme Court which ruled that wild-picked psilocybin mushrooms could not be legally considered "containers" of psilocybin and thus would have to be specifically listed in Florida law by the legislature if they meant to make them illegal. Since the Florida legislature has not chosen to change the laws since then, wild Psilocybin mushrooms are presumptively legal to possess in Florida

Would a wild mushroom farm that grew cubes be allowed by law?


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OfflineMitchnast
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Re: Buy, don't dry legal mushroom loophole [Re: PhatSlacker]
    #2232037 - 01/09/04 09:13 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)


But he said people drying-out the fungus to create a more powerful hallucinogen were in possession of a class A drug – on a par with heroin or cocaine.

"Once the mushroom is dried out or cooked it goes through a cycle change," he said.

"The psilocybin (a chemical within the mushroom) then becomes fully psycho-active.

"When they are fresh you would probably vomit on the quantity eaten before you get any hallucinogenic experience. If you pick them and eat them it is legal and there's nothing the police can do about them."
/quote

hey look at me, I have no idea what the fuck im taking about but i get paid for it like an expert!
/sarcasm


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OfflinejamboUK
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Re: Buy, don't dry legal mushroom loophole [Re: PhatSlacker]
    #2232050 - 01/09/04 09:17 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

There's no truth in what the policeman says, is there? About drying or cooking making a "cycle change" which makes the psylocybin "fully psycho-active"? Fresh is just as good as, if not better than, dry, isn't it?


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Buy, don't dry legal mushroom loophole [Re: jamboUK]
    #2232116 - 01/09/04 09:44 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

yes...


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OnlinegeokillsA
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Re: Buy, don't dry legal mushroom loophole [Re: PhatSlacker]
    #2232318 - 01/09/04 11:32 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

PhatSlacker said:
i got this off erowid.com,
Florida: Florida stands out because of a decision in 1978 in Fiske v Florida by the Florida Supreme Court which ruled that wild-picked psilocybin mushrooms could not be legally considered "containers" of psilocybin and thus would have to be specifically listed in Florida law by the legislature if they meant to make them illegal. Since the Florida legislature has not chosen to change the laws since then, wild Psilocybin mushrooms are presumptively legal to possess in Florida

Would a wild mushroom farm that grew cubes be allowed by law?


While you may be able to get away with hunting your own fresh mushrooms - the second you setup a storefront selling fresh mushrooms containing psychedelics, the federal government will come after you.  Federal law superseeds state law and since Psilocybin is a controlled substance under the Controlled Substances Act, a person selling the substance in the United States regardless of form or container would be held liable under the federal law, making the state loophole useless.  :mushroom2:

This is akin to the situation in my home state where medical marijuana has been made legal and there are storefronts that provide the plant to valid state-licensed cardholders.  Unfortunately, the fed's periodically decide to send in their cronies to bust up some of the supply houses even though state law allows them to exist.  Fortunately, some cities (including Santa Cruz, where I spend a portion of my time) know that Uncle Sam is full of ego-trippin' madness and in the case of the raids on some clinics here in Santa Cruz approximately 1-2 years ago, the city sponsored a giveaway of medicinal marijuana on the steps of city hall!!  Now that makes me smile. :sun:

PS.  Everyone vote for Judge Jim Gray for senate if you are a registered voter in California www.judgejimgray4senate.com (campaign website) www.judgejimgray.com (website dedicated to his book on the current ludiocrasy of the Drug War in America).


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Edited by geokills (01/09/04 11:38 PM)


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OfflinejamboUK
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Re: Buy, don't dry legal mushroom loophole [Re: geokills]
    #2233249 - 01/10/04 03:20 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

The interview by the policeman seems to go further than misinformation... it's so wrong, it's pretty much lying to the public. I didn't think they were allowed to do that. How are we supposed to trust anything they say if they're going to lie about things like this?


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OfflineMitchnast
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Re: Buy, don't dry legal mushroom loophole [Re: jamboUK]
    #2233607 - 01/10/04 07:14 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

its comial, they make it illegal to sell dried shrooms to discourage trafficking, and now that its temporarily available undried in legal open market, they are trying to justify the gross oversite with a bullshit amalgum of urban legends loosely based on storage meathods of amanita muscaria. its a message to paranoid parents who are wondering why the laws weren't in place to protect their impressionable children from all dangerous forms of "the drugs"
so now its, "oh we made dried mushrooms illegal because thats what makes it dangerous."
WRONG! that just makes it shippable, storable, and easy to conceal and sell, with a tenth the weight and WAY less spoilage.
you watch, someone is going to argue that 10 grams dried is WAY more potent than 10 grams fresh. so fresh is little cause for concern as kids can't grow it and really dont know hoe to pick and pushers aren't going to carry around fresh mushrooms.

this confused spin of hasty ill-thought out statement blankets is going to end soon thogh, with a more solid, thurougly beleiveable (but completely false) set of statements allong with sweeping prohibition, and harsh criminal "examples" to be made of nay=doers


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OfflinePsiloSteve
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Re: Buy, don't dry legal mushroom loophole [Re: Anno]
    #2252374 - 01/19/04 11:47 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

"Once the mushroom is dried out or cooked it goes through a cycle change," he said.

"The psilocybin (a chemical within the mushroom) then becomes fully psycho-active.

Thats bullshit. I agree, fresh mushrooms are easier to get away with because if you ordered them in florida, you could say you picked them. Fresh mushrooms are in no way "not fully psychoactive" though. What's wrong with people?


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Offlinepietruk
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Re: Buy, don't dry legal mushroom loophole [Re: PsiloSteve]
    #2265187 - 01/23/04 10:30 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I don't know the wording of U.K. drug laws but in the U.S. this "loophole is related to the Fiske case.

In that case the guy was coming out of the woods with some mushrooms and claimed he didn;t know they were active mushrooms. The florida courts dismissed his case as only psilocybin and psilocin are declared illegal in the wording of the law.

This case sets up the presedent for possible defense in mushroom cases.

I think the heart of this is that other cultures / counties are more enlightened with less of an us vs. the attitude towards goverernment. Hopefully more countries begin to see the pointlessness of making criminals out of their sisters/brothers, aunts/uncles, cousins, neighbors etc... And drug consequence awareness can begin to change from elsewhere...perhaps a hundredth monkey sort of thing..unfortunately the war on drugs is a huge money maker, as is selling fear to capture tax money....God, sometimes it really sucks in the us.

Back to mushie law...

Only about eight cases have been even remotely argued when it comes to mushrooms, usually the only thing that happens is the courts decide how much time/money to steal from a person. People assume magic mushrooms are illegal and don't try to defend their legality of having them.

About the only loophole I can see is the argument that mushrooms aren't illegal since only the active chemicals INSIDE them are spelled out as prohibited. The law uses words like manufacturing, material, and container. Not too unreasonably argued as deliberately altered substances like psilocybin capsules as spelled out in Adam Gottliebs Psilocybin Production. Like Richard Glen Boire argues in his book Sacred Mushrooms and the Law (must read is you are serious about your liberty and interested in mushrooms) nobody refers to mushrooms as "container" or "materials" you don't say wow nice pics of those containers, you sure gathered some awsome materials on your foray saturday.

As most people already know, most mushrooms in the class Plisocybe are not active. Therefore It is difficult to pass laws proscribing certain ones as illegal. That would require the public to learn something, a requirement which dosen't stand up in law. I think that is the main reason there is still a grey area here. My last statement will go into this.

Remember when dealing with law, this is not a civilized conversation where we can assume understanding. This is you vs. them fighting for your free existance. Protect your self with their tools of the trade. The US is an overly litigous country, use that absurd fact to your benifit. If your busted you better do your homework and help prepare you defense. Preferable you did it beforehand and hopefully unnecessarily.

In closing I would like to point out that psilocybin in any form is ASSUMED illegal. That doesn't mean it is according to the law. We are a generation which has grown up with these drug laws and assume them to be facts. It will be a hard paridigm to change. Hopefully we don't harden as we get old and can keep an enlightened attitude...else change isn't likely to happen...

Sorry this was longwinded...I now have a question:

The International Code of Botanical Nomenclature (ICBN) is currently planning to change genus names to make a broad catagory of actives. This will open the way to make pass laws against mushrooms themselves. I last heard they are not decided about this.

Can anyone tell me more about where they are with this currently i.e. timetable, possible names. Post or pm me.

Most of this was gathered from Boire's book Sacred Mushrooms and the Law. I recomend reading it. It's only $13 and about 100 pages. He also has a book Marijuana and the Law. Much more in depth about protecting yourself and much can be adapted to mushies.

I hope this is of some use and I welcome your comments.  :alert:


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Buy, don't dry legal mushroom loophole [Re: pietruk]
    #2275549 - 01/26/04 08:16 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Pietruk,

There are more than 187 known species of mushrooms which contain psiline/psilocybine worldwide.

Out of those 187 species they beong to 13 families, Psilocybe included. P The genus Psilocybe contains 115 species alone making it the largest genus with psychoactive shrooms in t its family.

$5 of those Psilocybes are found in Mexico and more than two dozen of those 45 are used ceremoniousley by seven different tribes oif indegeous peoples.

Additionally, I am others are also working on the taxonomy of several new species to add tot he list.

This isfor is available in the Shroomeries FAQs as well as at my web-site which ahs 2500 photographs and 1500 of them are of 55 species of psilocybian mushrooms.

Have a shroomy day,

mj


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Offlinepietruk
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Re: Buy, don't dry legal mushroom loophole [Re: mjshroomer]
    #2276418 - 01/27/04 02:56 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks MJ,

I've been on your site a few times seems I need to spend more time there.

I was thinking the name change would make a law change easier.

But I think it's too spread out for that. Hope it stays that way becouse at least with wild patches you can say "what?, I didn't know thought they were the cookin kind was gonna go show them to someone who could tell me" Actually that sounds pretty good if you got freshies just as long as your not in yer house growin talking to the gov.

Thanks for the reply


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OfflineMetaShroom
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Re: Buy, don't dry legal mushroom loophole [Re: pietruk]
    #2278047 - 01/27/04 05:07 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

No real 'loophole' here in the UK. It was intended that law should be as it is. Put simply, the drug law is that listed substances are illegal in their pure form and if they are part of a preperation or product. So cannabis and ayahuasca are illegal (as cannabis is listed as a substance, and ayahuasca is a preperation containing DMT, which is also listed) but mushrooms and mimosa bark are legal (neither are listed but would become illegal if prepared as they contain listed substances.

This way someone who allows cannabis to grow on their land is commiting an offence, but somone who knowingly allows psilocybin mushrooms to grow isn't. The law was designed like this so as not to incriminate, for example, County Councils (local government) who 'allow' liberty caps to grow on their golf courses.


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