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OfflineDaHamentashenkid
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Mini monotub issues
    #22308619 - 09/29/15 02:19 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Hey everyone,
I've been lurking for a while and I've successfully grown out four mini monotubs over the last few months. My issue is that, no matter how tightly I stuff the bottom holes, I never have the condensation on the walls that I've seen in a lot of posts. It hasn't been an issue but I'm wondering why that might be. My biggest issue is that my tubs never pin on the top of the sub. The first few tubs I only taped the outside of the tub which I've learned won't prevent side or bottom pinning. With my last two I lined them with plastic but they're still only pinning on the sides near where the liner meets the edge of the sub. How can I get the top to pin? Any help would be greatly appreciated.


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Re: Mini monotub issues [Re: DaHamentashenkid]
    #22308742 - 09/29/15 02:39 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

It pins from there because that's where the conditions are best, which means your probably have your tubs dialed in poorly.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17332777#17332777

You've read over that?  The condensation comes from a temperature difference between the inside and outside of the tub.  Are you misting?  Maybe you should try a light casing layer over the top to help promote a good pinning surface, with your next tub.


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OfflineDaHamentashenkid
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Re: Mini monotub issues [Re: Inocuole]
    #22308779 - 09/29/15 02:47 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

That's exactly the tek I've used on all of them. I'm aware as to why it's happening but this does nothing to explain how to fix the issue. I'm not misting bc a majority of everything I've read and everything people have commented on the subject say to not mist a monotub.


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OfflinePsilosoulful

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Re: Mini monotub issues [Re: DaHamentashenkid]
    #22308803 - 09/29/15 02:52 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DaHamentashenkid said:
I'm not misting bc a majority of everything I've read and everything people have commented on the subject say to not mist a monotub.



This is true, a monotub should be virtually set and forget. But, you should always make sure the surface has small beads of moisture, so evaporation can take place over time, thus aiding in producing a stronger pinset. A little misting never hurt anything, just don't spray the surface directly. Mist above the tub and let it fall gently on the surface. :thumbup:


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Re: Mini monotub issues [Re: Psilosoulful]
    #22308820 - 09/29/15 02:55 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I don't really see any detriment from just spraying down into the tub.


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Re: Mini monotub issues [Re: Inocuole]
    #22308841 - 09/29/15 02:59 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

was your substrate at field capacity when you spawned to it, or did you not even check and just hoped that some ratio you used was dead on for you too.


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Re: Mini monotub issues [Re: bodhisatta]
    #22308845 - 09/29/15 02:59 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

That would be a huge factor, yeah.


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OfflineDaHamentashenkid
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Re: Mini monotub issues [Re: Inocuole]
    #22308851 - 09/29/15 03:00 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

So maybe one of you can help me with the dialing in? The bottom holes are always stuffed tightly and I barely stuff the top holes. I even pull the top Polyfil if it seems to be causing lack of fae. What else can I do to get it set right? As far as I can tell I'm following everything correctly.


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OfflineDaHamentashenkid
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Re: Mini monotub issues [Re: bodhisatta]
    #22308856 - 09/29/15 03:01 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
was your substrate at field capacity when you spawned to it, or did you not even check and just hoped that some ratio you used was dead on for you too.



I've followed every tek for every piece of the grow exactly as they're written.


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Re: Mini monotub issues [Re: DaHamentashenkid]
    #22308873 - 09/29/15 03:03 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Well minis are a little harder to dial in.  How many bottoms holes do you have?  2 or 4?  One on each side is plenty for a mini, and they usually need to be stuffed real tight.  I don't know if you're rolling it up into a ball first but I just keep grabbing more and doing the ball-rolling motion and it gets pretty damn dense.  Having the top holes completely without polyfill will prevent condensation from forming for the most part, and will dry out the tub if the holes are too big.


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OfflineDaHamentashenkid
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Re: Mini monotub issues [Re: Inocuole]
    #22308889 - 09/29/15 03:06 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Four 1" holes on the sides, 2 on each at sub level and 2 1" holes at the top, one on each end. I have the bottom holes stuffed very tightly.


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Re: Mini monotub issues [Re: DaHamentashenkid]
    #22308893 - 09/29/15 03:08 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DaHamentashenkid said:
Quote:

bodhisatta said:
was your substrate at field capacity when you spawned to it, or did you not even check and just hoped that some ratio you used was dead on for you too.



I've followed every tek for every piece of the grow exactly as they're written.



you still have to make sure the ratio of the water to substrate that the writer of the TEK used is the same ratio for you to use. some people find they need more or less water to achieve field capacity.


you can say your bottoms are tight and tops are loose all you want but tight and loose are subjective and we have no idea if you're doing it right. you'll really just have to play with it and get a feel for it via experience. also pictures are worth 10,000 words


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OfflinePsilosoulful

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Re: Mini monotub issues [Re: Inocuole]
    #22308911 - 09/29/15 03:09 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Got any pics OP?? :begger:


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Re: Mini monotub issues [Re: DaHamentashenkid]
    #22308918 - 09/29/15 03:10 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Here's a good thread with a lot of mini-mono designs.  Casings seem to help a lot.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21032606


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OfflineDaHamentashenkid
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Re: Mini monotub issues [Re: Psilosoulful]
    #22308929 - 09/29/15 03:12 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I'm still trying to figure out how to post photos from android. One I figure that out I can post some.

My sub is field capacity, a few drops when squeezed lightly in the hand and nothing when pressure is released.


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Re: Mini monotub issues [Re: DaHamentashenkid]
    #22308934 - 09/29/15 03:13 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

A few drops is not enough.  You want a thin stream.


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Re: Mini monotub issues [Re: DaHamentashenkid]
    #22308939 - 09/29/15 03:14 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

when you go to upload choose documents not camera or take a picture. when you click documents you can go to your pictures folder. there's only about 3 different things you can even do and all but one of those ways is wrong so you should just figure it out by trial and error in 2 minutes


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OfflinePoIIo
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Re: Mini monotub issues [Re: DaHamentashenkid]
    #22308943 - 09/29/15 03:14 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Dont put so much thought into constantly having condensation on the walls. That only happens because of temp difference from what I've read and its completely normal for it to dissipate. Focus on the moisture content of the sub itself.


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OfflineDaHamentashenkid
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Re: Mini monotub issues [Re: Inocuole]
    #22308948 - 09/29/15 03:15 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Inocuole said:
A few drops is not enough.  You want a thin stream.



I suppose the amount of pressure applied could be subjective also then yeah?


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OfflinePsilosoulful

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Re: Mini monotub issues [Re: DaHamentashenkid]
    #22308955 - 09/29/15 03:16 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DaHamentashenkid said:
I'm still trying to figure out how to post photos from android. One I figure that out I can post some.

My sub is field capacity, a few drops when squeezed lightly in the hand and nothing when pressure is released.



The sub should be squeezed tightly with a stream of water rolling down your hand. Once it comes to a halt and only a couple of drops are falling down, then it's at proper field capacity. Water should be pooled up lightly around the knuckles and thumb. RR demonstrates this in one of his brf tek videos, can't seem to remember which one tho. I'm sure someone has the link to it.


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Re: Mini monotub issues [Re: DaHamentashenkid]
    #22308956 - 09/29/15 03:16 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I don't know, do you have very frail hands?  I'm not exactly Dr. Vicegrip.  I try not to squeeze it completely dry when testing it.


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OfflineDaHamentashenkid
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Re: Mini monotub issues [Re: Inocuole]
    #22308998 - 09/29/15 03:25 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)



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OfflineDaHamentashenkid
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Re: Mini monotub issues [Re: DaHamentashenkid]
    #22309018 - 09/29/15 03:27 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DaHamentashenkid said:




So this is the newest one.
I don't try to flatten it in my hand when I squeeze it but they pressure I apply leads to drops. If I squeeze harder it does stream slightly for a few seconds and then tapers off.


Edited by DaHamentashenkid (09/29/15 03:28 PM)


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Re: Mini monotub issues [Re: DaHamentashenkid]
    #22309020 - 09/29/15 03:27 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Okay so you have 4 holes, not two, very close together, they look very large, polyfill isn't very dense in any of the bottom holes, looks like you don't really have the hang of rolling it into a ball before stuffing it since it looks like it was kinda just.. shoved through both sides somehow, then pulled loose.

You're gonna have to mist to keep this thing moist.


6 holes is a bit too many for a box that small though.

In case you never had access to play doh, the motion I'm talking about is holding a huge amount of polyfill in one palm facing upward, and using the other palm in a circular motion around the polyfill repeatedly until it condenses.  You can usually add a bit more after condensing a giant handful once.


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OfflineDaHamentashenkid
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Re: Mini monotub issues [Re: Inocuole]
    #22309028 - 09/29/15 03:30 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Inocuole said:
Okay so you have 4 holes, not two, very close together, they look very large, polyfill isn't very dense in any of the bottom holes, looks like you don't really have the hang of rolling it into a ball before stuffing it since it looks like it was kinda just.. shoved through both sides somehow, then pulled loose.

You're gonna have to mist to keep this thing moist.



Yeah, like I said, four holes on the sides, two on each. Two holes at the top, one on each end.


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OfflineDaHamentashenkid
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Re: Mini monotub issues [Re: DaHamentashenkid]
    #22309045 - 09/29/15 03:32 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DaHamentashenkid said:
Quote:

Inocuole said:
Okay so you have 4 holes, not two, very close together, they look very large, polyfill isn't very dense in any of the bottom holes, looks like you don't really have the hang of rolling it into a ball before stuffing it since it looks like it was kinda just.. shoved through both sides somehow, then pulled loose.

You're gonna have to mist to keep this thing moist.



Yeah, like I said, four holes on the sides, two on each. Two holes at the top, one on each end.



So practice my balling and fewer holes on smaller tubs. I'm looking to move to bigger tubs in a couple of days with some bird seed I have ready and if just like to figure this thing out before I do so I can get the best results. I really appreciate the help and patience.


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Re: Mini monotub issues [Re: DaHamentashenkid]
    #22309066 - 09/29/15 03:35 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

:thumbup:

In short, for a mini:
-too many holes
-too big of holes
-holes not stuffed tightly enough on the bottom

You want to scale the size of the holes to the size of the tub.  The 66qt tub design for 5 jars of spawn, a brick of coir, and 2 qts of verm is the standard monotub.  When you deviate from that size you want to scale your FAE similarly, and anything under a 10 gallon tub, you want to only put one hole on each side.  If you have any slightly smaller hole saws those are handy for minis too.

You can get good mushrooms out of that though just by misting to compensate for lost moisture.  High FAE is good.


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Re: Mini monotub issues [Re: DaHamentashenkid]
    #22309068 - 09/29/15 03:35 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Dial in the poly better. Roll each piece into a ball and lightly push it though until it's halfway inside the tub. Top holes should be a lot looser.

Quote:

DaHamentashenkid said:
Quote:

DaHamentashenkid said:




So this is the newest one.
I don't try to flatten it in my hand when I squeeze it but they pressure I apply leads to drops. If I squeeze harder it does stream slightly for a few seconds and then tapers off.



That's perfect. Once the stream tapers off to a light dripping, that's when you know it is at field capacity. Like I said before, it should pool up around the knuckles and thumb when squeezed tightly. It's always better to have a sub a bit on the dry side than too wet.


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Re: Mini monotub issues [Re: DaHamentashenkid]
    #22309080 - 09/29/15 03:37 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DaHamentashenkid said:
Quote:

Inocuole said:
A few drops is not enough.  You want a thin stream.



I suppose the amount of pressure applied could be subjective also then yeah?



you bet, but field capacity itself is not subjective, once you know it it's always the same


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OfflineDaHamentashenkid
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Re: Mini monotub issues [Re: Inocuole]
    #22309081 - 09/29/15 03:38 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Inocuole said:
:thumbup:

In short, for a mini:
-too many holes
-too big of holes
-holes not stuffed tightly enough on the bottom

You want to scale the size of the holes to the size of the tub.  The 66qt tub design for 5 jars of spawn, a brick of coir, and 2 qts of verm is the standard monotub.  When you deviate from that size you want to scale your FAE similarly, and anything under a 10 gallon tub, you want to only put one hole on each side.  If you have any slightly smaller hole saws those are handy for minis too.

You can get good mushrooms out of that though just by misting to compensate for lost moisture.  High FAE is good.



Yeah I mean I've pulled a couple ounces out of two of these over the last month and a half so they're not totally unproductive.


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Re: Mini monotub issues [Re: Psilosoulful]
    #22309092 - 09/29/15 03:40 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Psilosoulful said:
Dial in the poly better. Roll each piece into a ball and lightly push it though until it's halfway inside the tub. Top holes should be a lot looser.

Quote:

DaHamentashenkid said:
Quote:

DaHamentashenkid said:




So this is the newest one.
I don't try to flatten it in my hand when I squeeze it but they pressure I apply leads to drops. If I squeeze harder it does stream slightly for a few seconds and then tapers off.



That's perfect. Once the stream tapers off to a light dripping, that's when you know it is at field capacity. Like I said before, it should pool up around the knuckles and thumb when squeezed tightly. It's always better to have a sub a bit on the dry side than too wet.



I will make those adjustments and mist when it's dry. Thank you very much. You guys are awesome. I've tried to not bother anyone with shit like this but I'm just at a point where my research hasn't gotten me anywhere.


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Re: Mini monotub issues [Re: DaHamentashenkid]
    #22309105 - 09/29/15 03:42 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

One more thing, I use the wal mart polyfill but I hear it's the worst.  People claim it's a world of difference to just get it out of a 10 dollar pillow or get a higher quality craft brand.  Might help.


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Re: Mini monotub issues [Re: DaHamentashenkid]
    #22309106 - 09/29/15 03:42 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I didn't see anything about how deep OP substrate is. Am I missing that somewhere? Too little substrate could definitely cause this right?


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Re: Mini monotub issues [Re: brandonshmandon]
    #22309118 - 09/29/15 03:43 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

It could, but it's more about the ratio of substrate to container volume that decides whether it can hold its own humidity.  Thin subs do fine in containers that still meet that ratio.


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Re: Mini monotub issues [Re: Inocuole]
    #22309127 - 09/29/15 03:45 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

This is true.


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Re: Mini monotub issues [Re: brandonshmandon]
    #22309139 - 09/29/15 03:47 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I dunno the specs so you could be right.  Seems like it's a number of factors.  I'd go out and get some bigger tubs for sure, seems like that one is like 2-3 gallons, the smallest I use with the mono design is 5 gallon.  Smaller than that and I just colonize it with the lid on and put it inside a mono to fruit.


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Re: Mini monotub issues [Re: Inocuole]
    #22309142 - 09/29/15 03:47 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Inocuole said:
One more thing, I use the wal mart polyfill but I hear it's the worst.  People claim it's a world of difference to just get it out of a 10 dollar pillow or get a higher quality craft brand.  Might help.



I've wondered this myself. I've seen tubs posted with poly that looks a lot thicker than the one I use (from Walmart of course :lol:)

Is there a specific brand I should look for? Maybe I'll go to an arts and crafts store and get my poly there. Thanks for the heads up Inoc.


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Offlinebrandonshmandon
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Re: Mini monotub issues [Re: Inocuole]
    #22309165 - 09/29/15 03:51 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Sounds right. My smallest is 7.5gal and I haven't had any issues with it yet


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Re: Mini monotub issues [Re: Psilosoulful]
    #22309167 - 09/29/15 03:51 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Well if you look at my tubs, my polyfill balls are pretty tidy.  I don't have issues with it for whatever reason, other than the occasional fruit growing through it.

(this tub is embarrassing but it shows the poly well, it's also uncased boner cloner, gimme a break)


I'm not sure if it's technique or if there's a regional difference in quality.  That second one is actually a really good example of stumps being reconsumed by the mycelium.

And yeah, I use opaque tubs for 90% of my stuff, big whoop.  They're cheaper.


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Re: Mini monotub issues [Re: Psilosoulful]
    #22309180 - 09/29/15 03:53 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Psilosoulful said:
Quote:

Inocuole said:
One more thing, I use the wal mart polyfill but I hear it's the worst.  People claim it's a world of difference to just get it out of a 10 dollar pillow or get a higher quality craft brand.  Might help.



I've wondered this myself. I've seen tubs posted with poly that looks a lot thicker than the one I use (from Walmart of course :lol:)

Is there a specific brand I should look for? Maybe I'll go to an arts and crafts store and get my poly there. Thanks for the heads up Inoc.



I actually saw you guys discussing this on another thread recently while talking about panty hose. Would the difference in poly matter if I made those balls with the nylons?


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Re: Mini monotub issues [Re: DaHamentashenkid]
    #22309183 - 09/29/15 03:53 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Not as much, no, that's a good idea, I always forget about that.


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Re: Mini monotub issues [Re: Inocuole]
    #22309194 - 09/29/15 03:54 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Ahhh. That big fucker on the side...:eek:


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Re: Mini monotub issues [Re: brandonshmandon]
    #22309198 - 09/29/15 03:55 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Hey OP what's the volume/dimensions of your tub?


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Re: Mini monotub issues [Re: brandonshmandon]
    #22309200 - 09/29/15 03:56 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah.. can't keep sidepins at bay past the first flush without a liner.  :shrug:  Oh you're talking about the wall shroom... yeah, also what happens without a liner, I get coir all over the walls and stuff fruits from it.


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Re: Mini monotub issues [Re: brandonshmandon]
    #22309256 - 09/29/15 04:04 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

brandonshmandon said:
Hey OP what's the volume/dimensions of your tub?



I think that one is a two gallon. It's pretty small. I just wanted to get something going to try and figure out how to properly set everything up before I move into bigger tubs. The sub is a 1:2 ratio spawn:c/v/castings. But I'm using pints bc its small.


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Re: Mini monotub issues [Re: DaHamentashenkid]
    #22309390 - 09/29/15 04:19 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Psilosoulful said:
Quote:

Inocuole said:
One more thing, I use the wal mart polyfill but I hear it's the worst.  People claim it's a world of difference to just get it out of a 10 dollar pillow or get a higher quality craft brand.  Might help.



I've wondered this myself. I've seen tubs posted with poly that looks a lot thicker than the one I use (from Walmart of course :lol:)

Is there a specific brand I should look for? Maybe I'll go to an arts and crafts store and get my poly there. Thanks for the heads up Inoc.




Pasty mentioned PCing polyfill.  I stuffed a quart jar full of it to give it a try and it was a lot easier to work with.


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Re: Mini monotub issues [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22309454 - 09/29/15 04:29 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

paperbackwriter said:
Quote:

Psilosoulful said:
Quote:

Inocuole said:
One more thing, I use the wal mart polyfill but I hear it's the worst.  People claim it's a world of difference to just get it out of a 10 dollar pillow or get a higher quality craft brand.  Might help.



I've wondered this myself. I've seen tubs posted with poly that looks a lot thicker than the one I use (from Walmart of course :lol:)

Is there a specific brand I should look for? Maybe I'll go to an arts and crafts store and get my poly there. Thanks for the heads up Inoc.




Pasty mentioned PCing polyfill.  I stuffed a quart jar full of it to give it a try and it was a lot easier to work with.



How so? Does it become thicker and easier to roll? :takingnotes:


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Re: Mini monotub issues [Re: Psilosoulful]
    #22309470 - 09/29/15 04:31 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I think it softens it up and yeah, makes it easier to roll.  Dunno about thickening.


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Re: Mini monotub issues [Re: Inocuole]
    #22309519 - 09/29/15 04:36 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Hmm cool I might try that out, seems like an unnecessary step tho, I just wanna get the good poly right off the bat. Is getting poly from pillows really a better option than purchasing bags of it. I was under the impression that all poly was the same, but now I know there's different varieties :lol:


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Re: Mini monotub issues [Re: Psilosoulful]
    #22310363 - 09/29/15 07:20 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah, softer and easier to work with.


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Re: Mini monotub issues [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22310544 - 09/29/15 07:44 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Cool, I'll try that, thanks! :pipesmoke:


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Re: Mini monotub issues [Re: Psilosoulful]
    #22310945 - 09/29/15 08:59 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

How's this for a 1 inch hole? Too much or not enough. I don't exactly just pop it in the hole. I do have to force it quite a bit.









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InvisibleLocN9ne
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Re: Mini monotub issues [Re: vagblast]
    #22310975 - 09/29/15 09:07 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Triple that shit up and stuff that bitch like you love her...


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Re: Mini monotub issues [Re: vagblast]
    #22310989 - 09/29/15 09:10 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

20q mini mono.

Tight enough to poke with finger quite hard before it pops through but not so tight u can barely get it in.
Wanna show this.to op as advise but I'm still kinda new to monos myself. What do y'all think?


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Re: Mini monotub issues [Re: LocN9ne]
    #22310999 - 09/29/15 09:13 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

LocN9ne said:
Triple that shit up and stuff that bitch like you love her...




Ha really? I doubled it and it wouldn't go dude. I mean I almost broke the damn tub trying.to get it in. Lol


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InvisibleLocN9ne
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Re: Mini monotub issues [Re: vagblast]
    #22311115 - 09/29/15 09:35 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

vagblast said:
Quote:

LocN9ne said:
Triple that shit up and stuff that bitch like you love her...




Ha really? I doubled it and it wouldn't go dude. I mean I almost broke the damn tub trying.to get it in. Lol



Well then...perfect!! Good job...


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Re: Mini monotub issues [Re: LocN9ne]
    #22311141 - 09/29/15 09:43 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Haha! Awesome. Yeah they be tight. Like tiger. I mean I never get a perfect two tubs. Idk if anyone can do that rolling poly. Maybe like flat sheets of poly exactly the same thickness and.density glued to the holes or something like that. But rolled poly for me is hard to get right consistently and have the same results tub to tub


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