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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Pin straight to grain jar??? Anyone done this?
    #22307200 - 09/29/15 09:20 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I've got a question to see if anyone has ever done this or have an opinion on it.  I am having good success with Violet's culturing system which is essentially invitro zip-loc jars with RGS only.  The RGS will pin and grow without even opening the jar so I'm thinking ...  could I wait till a few first pins show up before I"ve opened the jar (the jar should be contam free) and then just pluck the pin in a SAB and transfer it to a PC'd RGS grain jar about half full ... shake it up really good ... Would it grow out from that pin?  I would think contam risk would be very low as nothing was ever exposed to open air??? 

Second question is if I let a mushroom grow out fully in the invitro jar without opening it, waiting till the cap opens and is ready to drop spores, could I remove the cap in a SAB (remember, opening the zip-loc jar for the first time)  and then just drop the open, ready to drop spores cap into a waiting PC'd grain jar?  I would think the cap would be contam free as the jar it grew in was never opened???  This gets a new MS grow going right on PC"d RGS with no interim step(s) of printing, agar, etc. 

Anyone ever tried either of these two techniques or have an opinion to share?  Thanks for any response.


Edited by KauaiOrca (09/29/15 09:43 AM)


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Invisibletahoe
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Re: Pin straight to grain jar??? Anyone done this? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22308697 - 09/29/15 02:31 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Both ideas should work in theory. Give it a shot.


--------------------
Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.


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InvisiblePeter Pan
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Re: Pin straight to grain jar??? Anyone done this? [Re: tahoe]
    #22308850 - 09/29/15 03:00 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Yes.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Pin straight to grain jar??? Anyone done this? [Re: tahoe]
    #22308884 - 09/29/15 03:05 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

if you want to build a ship in a bottle for no good reason then go for it. it sounds way harder than actually doing a good job as to not have to worry about everything being 100% sterile just to get some shrooms though.

back in the day before even I signed up here lots of people did pins to grain or biopsy tissue to grain, but things got a little more advanced. you can go back and use last decades techniques but there's a reason why things moved forward. while yes, people succeeded, they didn't do so as often or as well as they do now using more rigorous techniques.

look up the 9er tek. you don't even need a sterile-in-vitro mushroom.

not to be a dick but when I see people so overly concerned about contamination risks and steirle spore prints, and sterile fruit bodies etc.. it just makes me think they actually suck at growing mushrooms hence why they're worring about stupid shit like that. whne the real investment should be in the skill not the corner cutting.


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Pin straight to grain jar??? Anyone done this? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #22309783 - 09/29/15 05:24 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
if you want to build a ship in a bottle for no good reason then go for it. it sounds way harder than actually doing a good job as to not have to worry about everything being 100% sterile just to get some shrooms though.

back in the day before even I signed up here lots of people did pins to grain or biopsy tissue to grain, but things got a little more advanced. you can go back and use last decades techniques but there's a reason why things moved forward. while yes, people succeeded, they didn't do so as often or as well as they do now using more rigorous techniques.

look up the 9er tek. you don't even need a sterile-in-vitro mushroom.

not to be a dick but when I see people so overly concerned about contamination risks and steirle spore prints, and sterile fruit bodies etc.. it just makes me think they actually suck at growing mushrooms hence why they're worring about stupid shit like that. whne the real investment should be in the skill not the corner cutting.




Thanks for the reply.  Just FYI, I'm doing spore prints to agar to LC's to grain ... the whole "updated" system and have had success with it.  That isn't really the issue.  My sense is, with this site, there's a pretty strong bias with the experienced people to get into bigger, monotub type grows as some kind of rite of passage as having arrived as a cultivator.  For me, I just don't need that much production for me and a few friends.  The main reason I made this post is to look for the most simplified system of producing, with a few very stealthy jars a month producing an ounce or so dry with a system that perpetuates itself and cuts out three major steps ... printing, agar and making a clean LC/LI.  It eliminates a fruiting chamber like a SGFC or Monotub, eliminates spawning the grain to a substrate and makes contamination such a minuscule risk that it's practically nil.  The reason why low contams is so important is so you can just keep starting jar after jar from the first couple of pins that show up without having to clean up the pins on agar ...

Most of what I was doing with agar I can also do with a small jar of RGS and with RGS, you can get some great pins really quick.  Anyway, not trying to argue, just to help you understand why I asked the question.  The big benefit of invitro, if you find a strain that thrives on it because a lot of them don't, is how easy it is.  I'm continually amazed how many big shrooms will grow off of a half pint of RGS with a vermiculite casing and bottom watering.  Super easy ... way easier than PF Tek, IMHO.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Pin straight to grain jar??? Anyone done this? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22309874 - 09/29/15 05:40 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I go small too, I haven't done my "rite of passage" either, :lol:
But still pull off an open air tray somewhere inconspicuous unless you want to hide it in a closet


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Pin straight to grain jar??? Anyone done this? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #22309985 - 09/29/15 06:02 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
I go small too, I haven't done my "rite of passage" either, :lol:
But still pull off an open air tray somewhere inconspicuous unless you want to hide it in a closet




Open air tray?  Where I live it is super dry so it would be very difficult to maintain the kind of humidity needed without constant attention, I'd think.  It seems with open air, your spore print is going to need to go to agar first ... + a couple of transfers. 

Anyway, I was just looking for a super simple kinda wholistic method.  Clean pins and caps to keep the cycle going indefinitely with no agar and no LC/LI needed.

I just looked up the 9er tek ... that is complicated ... shroom water ... blender ... fruiting chamber ... lots of steps.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


Edited by KauaiOrca (09/29/15 06:29 PM)


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Offlinemushpunx
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Re: Pin straight to grain jar??? Anyone done this? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22310092 - 09/29/15 06:29 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

You just have to pay a lot of attention to misting if you fruit trays in the open air

I dunno man honestly I think it would be better just to drop that pin on agar.. you also have the added bonus of being able to store that clone culture in the fridge while you are fruiting it out to test it


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Pin straight to grain jar??? Anyone done this? [Re: mushpunx]
    #22311006 - 09/29/15 09:14 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

mushpunx said:
You just have to pay a lot of attention to misting if you fruit trays in the open air

I dunno man honestly I think it would be better just to drop that pin on agar.. you also have the added bonus of being able to store that clone culture in the fridge while you are fruiting it out to test it




The thing is, I don't need or even want HUGE grows and just so long as I have decent grows going continuously with a jar or two giving me 50-100g (wet) a week, I'm happy.  I'd much rather have just a steady, always fruiting grows ( some fruits every week) rather than a huge grow here and there.  I'm just trying to find a way to keep a grow going indefinitely without agar, LC's, LI's, slants, spore prints or fruiting chambers ... easy ... virtually no contams ... That's what I'm looking to do. 

I'm amazed how well the bottom watering approach works with RGS.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Pin straight to grain jar??? Anyone done this? [Re: KauaiOrca] * 1
    #22311234 - 09/29/15 10:10 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)


Unmodified tub no holes no poly. My RH is about 20-40% usually. I'm not home 10 hrs a day or more


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Invisibletahoe
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Re: Pin straight to grain jar??? Anyone done this? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #22312220 - 09/30/15 02:32 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:

Unmodified tub no holes no poly. My RH is about 20-40% usually. I'm not home 10 hrs a day or more




Wow! Someone else who grows like me. I got called and idiot a few weeks back for saying that I compress the substrate and grow with no holes in my tubs. People act like it's hard to grow. They build these elaborate tubs that dry out their substrate. Then they wonder why they have piss poor pin set.
So happy to see a tub without holes


--------------------
Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.


My Legacy
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987

Teh=The
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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Pin straight to grain jar??? Anyone done this? [Re: tahoe]
    #22312228 - 09/30/15 02:35 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

And when that happens you just tell them to mist better. The point bod was making is that he doesn't have a lid on it and it's in 20-40% humidity, in the open air. Misted when needed. At least that's what I gathered?


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Offlinemushpunx
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Re: Pin straight to grain jar??? Anyone done this? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22312456 - 09/30/15 05:01 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

mushpunx said:
You just have to pay a lot of attention to misting if you fruit trays in the open air

I dunno man honestly I think it would be better just to drop that pin on agar.. you also have the added bonus of being able to store that clone culture in the fridge while you are fruiting it out to test it




The thing is, I don't need or even want HUGE grows and just so long as I have decent grows going continuously with a jar or two giving me 50-100g (wet) a week, I'm happy.  I'd much rather have just a steady, always fruiting grows ( some fruits every week) rather than a huge grow here and there.  I'm just trying to find a way to keep a grow going indefinitely without agar, LC's, LI's, slants, spore prints or fruiting chambers ... easy ... virtually no contams ... That's what I'm looking to do. 



Agar doesn't mean you have to do big grows man. But "virtually no contams" and no agAr in the same sentence is never gunna happen.
I think you are looking for somethinh un reasonable.

Put in the work, find a culture that has the potency and yeild you like... keep it in the fridge on agar.
Everyone once in a while grow out a plate and i nnoculate a couple quarts of spawn.

Pull a quart out and spawn a small tray or mini mono.

Small grow, contam free, consistent results... easy.. perpetual.. just stagger your spawn instead of innoculating it all at once so you don't have more than one ir two fully colonized jars at any given time


Oh and growing on a small scale like this you have the added bonus of omitting grain to grain transfer, all your spawn can be started directly from plate



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Edited by mushpunx (09/30/15 05:57 AM)


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OfflineMachiavelliavore
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Re: Pin straight to grain jar??? Anyone done this? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22312490 - 09/30/15 05:21 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Yes, tissue to grain works.  I did quite a bit of it myself before I got agar powder.  It takes forever to expand, so unless you just wanna do 1 time throwaway clones for a few jars, it really sucks.

I think leaving an open grain jar for long enough to get enough spore matter is risky and inviting problems.  If you wanna do this kinda thing, put the cap over a jar of sterilized water on a wire rack, then suck syringes out of that.


IMO you're thinking about easy continuous growing the wrong way, as a perfect selfperpetuating cycle.  That will always be more work and more risk than putting in the work to get a constant clean source of inoculant that'll last year's.

Here's what I'd do.  Get a clone you like.  Put it on agar.  Noc up a master grain jar, then suck up some mycellium into a clean syringe off the plate and store both in the fridge.  Pc a spoon with each of your small batches, g2g.  When your master jar gets low, g2g another master from what's left.  After doing that once or twice, start a new master from your mycellium water syringe with a few drops.

I don't see why you'd avoid agar though.  It always makes this Shit cleaner and easier.


--------------------


I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister.  I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave.  I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent.
Triggered yet?

Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."


No, this does not look right...


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Pin straight to grain jar??? Anyone done this? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #22312571 - 09/30/15 06:14 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:

Unmodified tub no holes no poly. My RH is about 20-40% usually. I'm not home 10 hrs a day or more




Nice!  How big a tub is that?  Is this an example of an "open air grow" in that you grow this without the top on the tub?  What is the RH (roughly) of where you live?  I live in a very arid climate with RH from 10-20% on average. 

I just got this from a zip-loc jar about half filled with only RGS and cased with a very thin layer of verm.  2nd flush ... invitro.



--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


Edited by KauaiOrca (09/30/15 06:40 AM)


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Pin straight to grain jar??? Anyone done this? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22313036 - 09/30/15 09:02 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

46quart

like that when I'm home or with the lid completely off.
when I'm gone I put it on with just a few air gaps

my RH is like I said 20-40 usually, winter soon it will be 0-20


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Pin straight to grain jar??? Anyone done this? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #22313156 - 09/30/15 09:37 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
46quart





46 quart tub definitely qualifies as  bulk grow, at least in my book.  That changes the dynamics a lot in terms of spawn > substrate > casing > fruiting ... Wouldn't even consider doing that method without agar first and making 100% sure grain/spawn is very clean.  Obviously you've got your system really dialed in ...  :congrats:

With a small grain jar (fruits right off the RGS) that colonizes very quickly, the factors are completely different because the contamination risk is so much lower invitro.  At any rate, I got a really helpful PM on using clean pins to colonize small grain jars so I think I'll give it a shot.  I'll post in a few months what happens.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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Re: Pin straight to grain jar??? Anyone done this? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22313362 - 09/30/15 10:51 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
I've got a question to see if anyone has ever done this or have an opinion on it.  I am having good success with Violet's culturing system which is essentially invitro zip-loc jars with RGS only.  The RGS will pin and grow without even opening the jar so I'm thinking ...  could I wait till a few first pins show up before I"ve opened the jar (the jar should be contam free) and then just pluck the pin in a SAB and transfer it to a PC'd RGS grain jar about half full ... shake it up really good ... Would it grow out from that pin?  I would think contam risk would be very low as nothing was ever exposed to open air???




I made an attempt at this last week. So far everything looks good, It's moving along much slower than the jars I g2g'd the same day though.


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Pin straight to grain jar??? Anyone done this? [Re: TBJ12]
    #22313475 - 09/30/15 11:19 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

TBJ12 said:

I made an attempt at this last week. So far everything looks good, It's moving along much slower than the jars I g2g'd the same day though.




I was thinking of dropping the pin into a very small jar of grain ... like maybe a half inch or so in a pint sized jar ... shaking up like crazy then letting it colonize (shouldn't take too long because of so little grain) then making a grain LC out of it ... Could test out 4-5 pins pretty quickly to find one that's a winner.  Something different to try, anyway.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Pin straight to grain jar??? Anyone done this? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22313537 - 09/30/15 11:32 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:

With a small grain jar (fruits right off the RGS) that colonizes very quickly, the factors are completely different because the contamination risk is so much lower invitro.






they're all in-vitro if you consider I left them in the jar and used sandwich bags as humidity tents, the tub is fruited a grocery store bag humidity tent
they're all fruited open air when I'm home or with a humidity tent for when I'm away. you could stuff the bottles in a mini mono or a lot of bottles in a regular mono too.

unless you're completely unable to fruit without contamination unless you do the completely in-vitro setups then I don't see why you wouldn't want to try to maximize the yield for your work and jar size by doing easier work

as you can see though most of what I did were a few bottles here and there, no right of passage ammounts of shrooms being grown.


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