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Raven Gnosis
𝔰𝔢𝔯𝔭𝔢𝔫𝔱𝔦𝔠𝔦𝔡𝔞


Registered: 02/10/11
Posts: 1,311
Loc: Necoc Yaotl
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I've only fallen in love once, and after the curtain dropped and the show was over I realized that that love was always and only mine to begin with. That despite that other person helping to wake that in me, that love wasn't explicitly tied to them nor was or is it dependent on them.
That being said, do I love my neighbor? Naah. But I can use the love I can stir within myself to be a good person to them when I desire.
-------------------- To be human is to be fettered, to endure what one is, in perpetuum, no matter what the debility or perversity.
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Great reply, Raven Gnosis.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant



Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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I define Love a bit differently, for me it's the best version of myself that I can be. Every time I love it's better than the last time, it's infinitely intense like that. Some day I hope to be able to take in any stupid bullshit thrown my way, transmute it, and hand back Love. I'm doing this to work on myself. Sadhana etc. I want to be totally free.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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nuentoter
conduit



Registered: 09/17/08
Posts: 2,721
Last seen: 7 years, 21 days
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Re: Do you love your neighbor? [Re: CosmicJoke] 1
#22310668 - 09/29/15 08:08 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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I guess the idea that love is the secondary in the equation is as alien to me as your feelings of love for your neighbor. For myself, I love everyone of you, honestly and whole hearted I can say that. This comes before any concept of who any of you are, saints or demons. I choose to love you all because it seems like that is the one thing that every person at the least should receive.
This is not to be confused with any notions of deserving anything, for earning anything, actions, words, or anything else that takes place afterwards. These are secondary things on the timeline. These cannot diminish my love because my love comes first just for being. Being an ass, or a psychopath only effect my level of personal approval of those actions of words. I maintain that there should never be any expectations of anyone else that is not you. Expectations are a system setup for failure.
I don't seem to understand how someone cannot love your fellow travelers in this journey just for being there with you. The default feeling that love is something to be held on to and guarded and then earned feels strange to me. Love feels like such a strong endless energy within that it should be given away at every street corner.
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The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know. - @entheolove "I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for" - Georgia O'Keefe I think the word is vagina
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant



Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Re: Do you love your neighbor? [Re: nuentoter]
#22310755 - 09/29/15 08:26 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
nuentoter said: Love feels like such a strong endless energy within that it should be given away at every street corner.
Hah, indeed.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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DisoRDeR
motional



Registered: 08/29/02
Posts: 1,158
Loc: nonsensistan
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Re: Do you love your neighbor? [Re: CosmicJoke]
#22310790 - 09/29/15 08:32 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 2 days
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The love that is taught in the New Testament is agapé, which is a matter of the will and has little to do with liking someone. Agapé is a warm but disinterested act of will. Warm, because one is not behaving in a cold, robotic way of simply 'following orders' (of God). It is not a religious obligation, it is an act of will, free will. This spiritual position defines one's moral compass or it does not. It is a Way of life or it is not. I prefer to affiliate myself with people who share this moral compass, but I do not belong to a religious congregation AS IF membership will somehow ensure a community of like-heart-minded individuals.
I couldn't stand my low-class next-door neighbor of 12 years, who mistreated his German Shepherd (which I gave daily treats to and offered to walk, which was refused). BUT, when his car alarm went off in the middle of the night on a couple of occasions, I ran outside in my Jockey-shorts with a heavy walking stick (no gun) because I intended to protect his property. I didn't think about it, I bolted out of bed because I knew that criminals were bent on jacking his car. They DID get his wheels on another occasion. I continued to dislike this man and his wife until they moved away one day without a word. He even lied to the buyer of his house that the dilapidated fence between our houses was my fence and responsibility, when it was not.
Nevertheless, my actions speak to a certain spontaneity of will that continually indwells me, although it doesn't manifest outwardly as constantly as I wish. The transcendence of the "natural man" is the "mind of Christ" or the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in Christian theology. Comparatively speaking, it is Bodhicitta (heart-mind) in Buddhism. It is important to acknowledge the Transcendental when it overshadows one's human nature, but obviously, it is most important to cultivate its Presence for the sake of the transformation of self and world.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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orison
mcfluffysugarnuts


Registered: 01/19/09
Posts: 5,468
Last seen: 24 days, 16 hours
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fuck no,, i wish that wigger pos would roll his faggot truck over a hillside ..
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mwhtmn
Seeker & Developer



Registered: 07/30/15
Posts: 723
Loc: USA
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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I believe that I should love everyone- all the time. Even if they don't know/love me. Love ya man. Have a good night!
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Yes, well I am actually quite unselfish and compassionate in my behaviors with other people in my life. I just don't feel the love for my fellow man that I used to feel, and my insecurity about this led me to make this thread.
To both CosmicJoke and nuentoter: That is how I would prefer for things to be. It just isn't for me. And I can't in good conscience pretend to be something I'm not, which I what I would be doing if I said I was full of love and wanted to include others in it. I just don't see things that way anymore. It just doesn't feel right to me. I would have to hold man in high esteem if I were to love him, and I just don't.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant



Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Quote:
DividedQuantum said: Yes, well I am actually quite unselfish and compassionate in my behaviors with other people in my life. I just don't feel the love for my fellow man that I used to feel, and my insecurity about this led me to make this thread.
To both CosmicJoke and nuentoter: That is how I would prefer for things to be. It just isn't for me. And I can't in good conscience pretend to be something I'm not, which I what I would be doing if I said I was full of love and wanted to include others in it. I just don't see things that way anymore. It just doesn't feel right to me. I would have to hold man in high esteem if I were to love him, and I just don't. 
As I said, I'm just working on myself to make everything better than the last time, Buddha meeting Buddha, that first moment. I mean anywhere, from loving to brush my teeth, to loving a stop and chat with my neighbor, to having sex, of late it keeps getting better and better...... a shroomerite Asante indirectly helped me with that actually.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 2 days
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As I said, the love that is required is agapé, compassion, dispassionate warmth. It is not for 'their' benefit, it is for your's. As you've disclosed, you've allowed yourself to become cynical and somewhat bitter. Consider helping others as you would a snared animal who might try to bite you even though you are trying to free it. It's like the vid I saw today about a man freeing a snared baby fox which he liberated, thanklessly, or another one of a fox (I think) with his head stuck in a jar. They take what they need and split, but YOU, YOU'VE acted compassionately without thought of reward. You've done what was needful in your local space-time corner of the universe. And what's more, it was an act of enlightened mind, compassion-in-action.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Yes, I understand. I am already actually quite a compassionate person. In the case of the baby fox, I would definitely act that way, and go out of my way to do so. As I said in the original post, I am respectful of people and not unconcerned for their welfare. I just don't feel about them the way I feel it would be most appropriate to do. I dunno, based on what you have said, maybe I'm doing okay. There are lots of definitions for love, I suppose.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 2 days
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Even among the various Yogas, I could not behave like a "Krishna-Conscious" Bhakti, singing and dancing, and chanting and expressing devotion to Krishna. No, I discovered that in the yogic idiom, I was "indirectly Krishna-Conscious," an "impersonalist," which my thick 1970s version of the Bhagavad Gita with colored plates illustrates as a meditating yogi with a small Krishna in my heart. In fact a guy from grad school once asked me how to get the Hare Krishnas to leave him alone in airports and whatnot. I told him to say this, and he actually remembered it (good memory, bright guy, but he became a lawyer): "I contemplate the plenary expansion of Vishnu in the lotus of my heart." This lawyer-to-be reported back to me that the Krishna devotee was stunned, silenced, and simply walked away. My point is that there is the Jnana yogi, the solitary realizer, whose path is naturally deemed inferior to the devotional-emotional path by the emotional-devotional types, but an Introverted Thinking type is NOT going to resonate with an Extraverted Feeling type such as those who populated the Krishna movement.
In other idioms, say Christianity, the exact same situation exists. Extraverted Evangelical Christians could not possibly fathom a Trappist monk, especially not an intellectual and ecumenical man like the late great Thomas Merton, who spent time with leaders of Eastern religions as his Asian Journal describes. Perhaps more to the point, if we are are a type who is not emotionally demonstrative, if we don't get all emotional, gushy, cry during movies, or express ourselves flamboyantly, there are a lot of people who will accuse us of not loving them, or of being a "cold fish." I didn't know how to keep a sick baby bird alive as a child but I tried. I picked up earth worms off the pavement after a heavy rain and put them back on the grass. These are acts of compassion, not overt manifestations of emotion. Want to see emotion, watch a Cuban novella on Miami Spanish TV. It usually has to do with lust and sexual jealousy, not love.
"4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres." - 1 Corinthians 13:4-7, NIV
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
Edited by MarkostheGnostic (10/02/15 12:42 AM)
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Very nice, Mark.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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circastes
Big Questions Small Head



Registered: 01/14/10
Posts: 8,781
Loc: straya
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
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Just be the best person you can be. Be the change you want to see in the world as Ghandi says. You will find that if you get on a roll nothing can stop you especially not immature dipshits.
-------------------- My solitude... My shield... My armour... TESTED WITH FULL FORCE
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circastes
Big Questions Small Head



Registered: 01/14/10
Posts: 8,781
Loc: straya
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
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Re: Do you love your neighbor? [Re: circastes]
#22318136 - 10/01/15 09:37 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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By the way dividedquantum you're very high functioning despite your diagnosis. Have you considered college?
-------------------- My solitude... My shield... My armour... TESTED WITH FULL FORCE
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Re: Do you love your neighbor? [Re: circastes]
#22318324 - 10/01/15 10:15 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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I actually have a bachelor of science degree in anthropology.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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Thanatos10
Stranger



Registered: 01/19/15
Posts: 2,770
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 8 months
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The older I got the less I understood simply loving people and compassion as well.
I have great love for animals though, and insects (some people don't consider them animals). I will go out of my way to save a turtle or baby ducks.
But I truly could not find any reason to give a damn about people. Don't know why exactly but I just cannot. To me they are often a means to an end. I sometimes find myself laughing a bit at the suffering, kind of makes me think I'm crazy. But whether it's individuals or the race as a whole I don't care. They can kill each other off and I wouldn't bat an eye. I just tolerate their existence.
This whole notion of deserving love is also foolish to me. It's almost like you are owed it for some reason. But we aren't. The universe and humanity owes you nothing.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 2 days
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-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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