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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 34,046
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: directexperience]
    #22295734 - 09/26/15 08:29 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Im bumping this thread because the OP is still extremely relevant to this sub. Ignore the derails and lets discuss the original premise. Heres the first post:

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
What I mean by this is that proponents of these ideals always seem to have a swift answer to the most complex problems the world faces.

Poverty? Laziness.
Corrupt government? Do away with it altogether.
Income inequality? Laziness.
Geopolitics? Kill them all.
Racism? It doesn't exist.

Granted, these views don't respresent all the proponents of said philosophies, but I'm speaking on what I see most often. And here's the root of the problem: There is no single vial of snake oil that will cure all of society's ills, and your typical Reaganite believes just the opposite.

And they do so because it's EASY to think that way.

How do these people reconcile the negative consequences of capitalism? Write it off as cronyism. People like this don't struggle with reconciliation of different ideals, because in their mind, the answer is clear. And it's easier that way, sorta like the people who believe God is responsible for any and all unknowns.

This kind of thinking is pervasive, and I'm getting sick of seeing these multiple choice discussions take place on this forum because certain people are too insecure in their beliefs to admit that, just maybe, there are downsides to the beliefs they hold dear. there's no internal conflict, no struggle, and it's downright dishonest.





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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #22295778 - 09/26/15 08:39 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Im bumping this thread because the OP is still extremely relevant to this sub. Ignore the derails and lets discuss the original premise. Heres the first post:

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
What I mean by this is that proponents of these ideals always seem to have a swift answer to the most complex problems the world faces.

Poverty? Laziness.
Corrupt government? Do away with it altogether.
Income inequality? Laziness.
Geopolitics? Kill them all.
Racism? It doesn't exist.

Granted, these views don't respresent all the proponents of said philosophies, but I'm speaking on what I see most often. And here's the root of the problem: There is no single vial of snake oil that will cure all of society's ills, and your typical Reaganite believes just the opposite.

And they do so because it's EASY to think that way.

How do these people reconcile the negative consequences of capitalism? Write it off as cronyism. People like this don't struggle with reconciliation of different ideals, because in their mind, the answer is clear. And it's easier that way, sorta like the people who believe God is responsible for any and all unknowns.

This kind of thinking is pervasive, and I'm getting sick of seeing these multiple choice discussions take place on this forum because certain people are too insecure in their beliefs to admit that, just maybe, there are downsides to the beliefs they hold dear. there's no internal conflict, no struggle, and it's downright dishonest.








People like to be sure of things. I saw a study (can't remember by who, and I'm not going to look it up) that showed that people try to answer questions when they know nothing about the subject at all, because it is part of human nature. Our brains even automatically fill things in for what we don't know. It's not necessarily a conscious thing.

Some people don't have the time to thoroughly investigate things, but they want to have an opinion. They want to be sure of their political/economic stance, but they don't want to earn their assurance. So, they exercise intellectual laziness and opt for the simple agenda that can answer everything in simplistic terms.

This world is so incredibly complicated. That's why we discuss these things, and none of it is simple.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns

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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #22295849 - 09/26/15 08:54 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

i saw this thread and i was like :raisemyglass:
then i saw that it was old as fuck and is was like :bathtub40lol:


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: ballsalsa]
    #22296295 - 09/26/15 10:19 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Wow, this thread is from March! lol

Still, true.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns

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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22298394 - 09/27/15 12:40 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:


People like to be sure of things. I saw a study (can't remember by who, and I'm not going to look it up) that showed that people try to answer questions when they know nothing about the subject at all, because it is part of human nature. Our brains even automatically fill things in for what we don't know. It's not necessarily a conscious thing.

Some people don't have the time to thoroughly investigate things, but they want to have an opinion. They want to be sure of their political/economic stance, but they don't want to earn their assurance. So, they exercise intellectual laziness and opt for the simple agenda that can answer everything in simplistic terms.

This world is so incredibly complicated. That's why we discuss these things, and none of it is simple.




Will you be my friend?  It looks like you know everything and are smarter than everyone else and have all the answers.  :smirk:

con·de·scend·ing1

[ˌkändəˈsendiNG]

ADJECTIVE

1)  having or showing a feeling of patronizing superiority:
    "she thought the teachers were arrogant and condescending"

synonyms: patronizing · supercilious · superior · snobbish · snobby


--------------------

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Invisibleburgerbrain
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Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 962
Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #22298503 - 09/27/15 01:02 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Im bumping this thread because the OP is still extremely relevant to this sub. Ignore the derails and lets discuss the original premise. Heres the first post:

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
What I mean by this is that proponents of these ideals always seem to have a swift answer to the most complex problems the world faces.

Poverty? Laziness.
Corrupt government? Do away with it altogether.
Income inequality? Laziness.
Geopolitics? Kill them all.
Racism? It doesn't exist.

Granted, these views don't respresent all the proponents of said philosophies, but I'm speaking on what I see most often. And here's the root of the problem: There is no single vial of snake oil that will cure all of society's ills, and your typical Reaganite believes just the opposite.

And they do so because it's EASY to think that way.

How do these people reconcile the negative consequences of capitalism? Write it off as cronyism. People like this don't struggle with reconciliation of different ideals, because in their mind, the answer is clear. And it's easier that way, sorta like the people who believe God is responsible for any and all unknowns.

This kind of thinking is pervasive, and I'm getting sick of seeing these multiple choice discussions take place on this forum because certain people are too insecure in their beliefs to admit that, just maybe, there are downsides to the beliefs they hold dear. there's no internal conflict, no struggle, and it's downright dishonest.









Too much bullshit in one thread. Bullshit overload.

I'll start slow for the libs:

Poverty? Laziness. Poverty in America? First world problems. Our poor have enough food, cable tv, etc.

Corrupt government? Do away with it altogether. Tea Party Libertarians voted in to end corruption and make gov smaller so the corruption doesn't do as much damage.

Income inequality? Laziness. When has income inequality never existed? Obviously the real conversation should be about "Standard of Living"

Geopolitics? Kill them all. Is that what Ron Paul the Libertarian said, kiddo?

Racism? It doesn't exist. Our nation elected Obowma, twice. That must be RACIST! More whites than blacks are killed by cops. Where's the racism? Oh I found it! Affirmative Action is RACISM.


--------------------

Edited by burgerbrain (09/27/15 01:03 PM)

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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: burgerbrain]
    #22298664 - 09/27/15 01:43 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Poverty? Laziness. Poverty in America? First world problems. Our poor have enough food, cable tv, etc.




America has the richest "poor" in the world, our standard of living is so high, whats considered middle class here, is wealthy in most of the rest of the world...

Quote:

Corrupt government? Do away with it altogether. Tea Party Libertarians voted in to end corruption and make gov smaller so the corruption doesn't do as much damage.




exactly, Ive never heard ONE conservative talk about doing away with the govt altogether, but thats what liberals hear anytime they hear talk about cutting a program, reducing the size or scope of govt... "Oh my God! the sky is falling!"

Quote:

Income inequality? Laziness. When has income inequality never existed? Obviously the real conversation should be about "Standard of Living"




plus the fact they rarely really address how to raise anyone up, only that the rich have too much and need to be knocked down...

Quote:

Geopolitics? Kill them all. Is that what Ron Paul the Libertarian said, kiddo?




this one really boggles the mind, most of the wars started have been under democratic leadership or had democratic support, yet, its the GOP labeled as the "war mongers"

Quote:

Racism? It doesn't exist. Our nation elected Obowma, twice. That must be RACIST! More whites than blacks are killed by cops. Where's the racism? Oh I found it! Affirmative Action is RACISM.




the left loves this one, gotta problem? blame racism... the lack of constructive thought process is almost inconceivable, anytime you criticize obama, must be a racist, its such an intellectual copout that it borders on retardedness... <<<my autocorrect is telling me thats not a word, I beg to differ...


--------------------
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Invisibleburgerbrain
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Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 962
Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22298778 - 09/27/15 02:06 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Hear Hear .. These guys don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 34,046
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: burgerbrain]
    #22299008 - 09/27/15 03:03 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Did you know Einstein was a socialist?


--------------------

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 34,046
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: starfire_xes]
    #22299017 - 09/27/15 03:04 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:


People like to be sure of things. I saw a study (can't remember by who, and I'm not going to look it up) that showed that people try to answer questions when they know nothing about the subject at all, because it is part of human nature. Our brains even automatically fill things in for what we don't know. It's not necessarily a conscious thing.

Some people don't have the time to thoroughly investigate things, but they want to have an opinion. They want to be sure of their political/economic stance, but they don't want to earn their assurance. So, they exercise intellectual laziness and opt for the simple agenda that can answer everything in simplistic terms.

This world is so incredibly complicated. That's why we discuss these things, and none of it is simple.




Will you be my friend?  It looks like you know everything and are smarter than everyone else and have all the answers.  :smirk:

con·de·scend·ing1

[ˌkändəˈsendiNG]

ADJECTIVE

1)  having or showing a feeling of patronizing superiority:
    "she thought the teachers were arrogant and condescending"

synonyms: patronizing · supercilious · superior · snobbish · snobby




What superiority?

I saw nothing but a humble admission that the world and it's problems are complicated. His comments on human nature are spot on, as I'm sure he realizes he too is a human.


--------------------

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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Registered: 03/11/15
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22299250 - 09/27/15 04:00 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

    Quote:
    Poverty? Laziness. Poverty in America? First world problems. Our poor have enough food, cable tv, etc.



America has the richest "poor" in the world, our standard of living is so high, whats considered middle class here, is wealthy in most of the rest of the world...




oh, i see. you want American poor to be as poor as indian or african poor.  i get it now. thanks for clearing that up for me.


--------------------


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: ballsalsa]
    #22299305 - 09/27/15 04:10 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Quote:

    Quote:
    Poverty? Laziness. Poverty in America? First world problems. Our poor have enough food, cable tv, etc.



America has the richest "poor" in the world, our standard of living is so high, whats considered middle class here, is wealthy in most of the rest of the world...




oh, i see. you want American poor to be as poor as indian or african poor.  i get it now. thanks for clearing that up for me.




Yeah, some of us don't enjoy the race to the bottom.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns

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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: ballsalsa]
    #22299511 - 09/27/15 04:55 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Quote:

    Quote:
    Poverty? Laziness. Poverty in America? First world problems. Our poor have enough food, cable tv, etc.



America has the richest "poor" in the world, our standard of living is so high, whats considered middle class here, is wealthy in most of the rest of the world...




oh, i see. you want American poor to be as poor as indian or african poor.  i get it now. thanks for clearing that up for me.




Lol, what??? Strawman much? America has such high standards of living because of CAPITALISM, even those European socialist countries don't compete...

Let me guess, the next lib talking point will be "but they're happier" smh...


--------------------
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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22299692 - 09/27/15 05:46 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Isn't it weird how America was at its peak when socialist programs were introduced, unions were strong, and tax rates were comparable to other modern Western nations?


--------------------

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Offlineqman
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #22299804 - 09/27/15 06:19 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Isn't it weird how America was at its peak when socialist programs were introduced, unions were strong, and tax rates were comparable to other modern Western nations?




America was at it's peak when we had a tight labor market, which naturally created a more even distribution of income and wealth.

When you have a tight labor market with true economic growth, most of the real problems for the working class will disappear.

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 34,046
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: qman]
    #22299823 - 09/27/15 06:23 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Isn't it weird how America was at its peak when socialist programs were introduced, unions were strong, and tax rates were comparable to other modern Western nations?




America was at it's peak when we had a tight labor market, which naturally created a more even distribution of income and wealth.

When you have a tight labor market with true economic growth, most of the real problems for the working class will disappear.




There's certainly some truth to that, but the reality is we won't ever have a tight labor market again due to globalism, and eternal growth is a fantasy.

So what do we do for the working class knowing that?


--------------------

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Offlineqman
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #22299888 - 09/27/15 06:35 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Isn't it weird how America was at its peak when socialist programs were introduced, unions were strong, and tax rates were comparable to other modern Western nations?




America was at it's peak when we had a tight labor market, which naturally created a more even distribution of income and wealth.

When you have a tight labor market with true economic growth, most of the real problems for the working class will disappear.




There's certainly some truth to that, but the reality is we won't ever have a tight labor market again due to globalism, and eternal growth is a fantasy.

So what do we do for the working class knowing that?




Well, if I had my way I would bring back production to the US, but since there's no political will to do so, I don't think we will see it, unfortunately it's not even up for debate. I mean when Trump suggested a 35% tariff on foreign products, no one even contested what he stated, it's too touchy of a subject to even discuss. :shrug:

Educating more people only works if there's already a shortage of high skilled workers, that's no longer the case in any developed nation.

So at the end of the day, I can't help but think that the US standard of living will continue to decline for the bottom 80%.

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: qman]
    #22300039 - 09/27/15 07:11 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Unfortunately I think you're right.

We're past the point of tariffs bring considered a viable option.


:feelsbadman:


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: qman]
    #22300196 - 09/27/15 07:42 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Isn't it weird how America was at its peak when socialist programs were introduced, unions were strong, and tax rates were comparable to other modern Western nations?




America was at it's peak when we had a tight labor market, which naturally created a more even distribution of income and wealth.

When you have a tight labor market with true economic growth, most of the real problems for the working class will disappear.




There's certainly some truth to that, but the reality is we won't ever have a tight labor market again due to globalism, and eternal growth is a fantasy.

So what do we do for the working class knowing that?




Well, if I had my way I would bring back production to the US, but since there's no political will to do so, I don't think we will see it, unfortunately it's not even up for debate. I mean when Trump suggested a 35% tariff on foreign products, no one even contested what he stated, it's too touchy of a subject to even discuss. :shrug:

Educating more people only works if there's already a shortage of high skilled workers, that's no longer the case in any developed nation.

So at the end of the day, I can't help but think that the US standard of living will continue to decline for the bottom 80%.




You're right. The solution will continue to become more and more apparent in the coming decades. The labor force will never tighten back up without some sort of global disaster, and technology will continue to replace jobs with machinery. Socialism or destitution will eventually be the only option for 99% of society.

As I've said before, Socialism is inevitable, and that is a good thing. It is what we've been building for he last century. Change is scary, regardless, but Socialism is empowerment of the people, beyond what the world has ever known.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns

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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22300262 - 09/27/15 07:53 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Quote:

    Quote:
    Poverty? Laziness. Poverty in America? First world problems. Our poor have enough food, cable tv, etc.



America has the richest "poor" in the world, our standard of living is so high, whats considered middle class here, is wealthy in most of the rest of the world...




oh, i see. you want American poor to be as poor as indian or african poor.  i get it now. thanks for clearing that up for me.




Lol, what??? Strawman much? America has such high standards of living because of CAPITALISM, even those European socialist countries don't compete...

Let me guess, the next lib talking point will be "but they're happier" smh...




European Feudalist nations had far more than Africa too. It had nothing to do with their economic structure, and everything to do with the resources available to them. From an anthropological standpoint, farming societies made technological strides far beyond hunter gatherer communities, because farming freed he minds of portions of society from the toils of hunting/gathering, so they could innovate. It also freed laborers to focus on building new things.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns

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