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InvisibleAlexander Wood
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Registered: 09/24/15
Posts: 2
pseudo sclerotia psilocybe cubensis (strain amazonian)
    #22297876 - 09/27/15 10:54 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Hi,

My English is not so good, but i hope you'll understand what i'm writing. I've already searched this forum for what happened to my Cubensis cake, but all explanations and descriptions about that don't really match with what i've grown. The differences may cause of the substrate i'm using (It's edible. I'll maybe explain later in another thread when all tests are done).

It have taken about 4 weeks to fully colonize the jar. After that i put the cake for about 3 weeks into my makeshift fruiting chamber ( a plastic bucket with plastic cover, don't want to set up the "real" fruiting chamber for only one cake). But nothing happened in that time (may caused of lack of fresh air, temperature or something, that could not be controlled in that bucket).

I decided to take the cake out of the bucket to cut and dry it. It smells like every other cake i've harvested, like mushroom. I recognized a strong bluing reaction where i've touched the cake. It takes about 20 - 30 seconds to turn this spots into dark blue.After one minute they turn nearly black. I've never seen such a strong reaction on my cakes before. When i turned the cake upside down i saw some yellow balls (pseudo sclerotia) jut out of the cake, that reminded me of sclerotia of Psilocybe mexicana. The strong bluing reaction only took place around the pseudo sclerotia. The rest of the mycelium shows a little or no bluing reaction. The pseudo sclerotia formed up to 4 cm under the cake like sclerotia of P. tampanensis and P. mexicana also do. The pseudo sclerotia that forms under the cake shows rhizomorphic strings with which they are connected to the cake. I've broken some of them  to look if they got any inclusions, but nothing. They look white to yellowish inside, like a nut. The consistence is a little bit softer than a nut. Nearly the same as sclerotia of P. mexicana.

I don't want to eat and test the effects and potency of these pseudo sclerotia, because the rest of the substrate is not looking like that i've harvested before. It looks darker and browner, may caused of an higher alkaloid level in the cake. But i don't really know what happened to my cake, so i'm afraid of eating it.

Maybe there is a way to reproduce this under controlled conditions. I'll try.

If anybody had an idea in which way i can stimulate or stress the mycelium to form pseudo sclerotia or anybody got some experience with it, please let me know.


Yellowish pseudo sclerotia with bluing reaction



Pseudo sclerotia at the bottom of the cake





Pseudo sclerotia with rhizomorphic strings




Some harvested pseudo sclerotia




Alexander


--------------------
Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen
and thinking what nobody else has thought.


-- Albert Szent-Györgyi --


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: pseudo sclerotia psilocybe cubensis (strain amazonian) [Re: Alexander Wood]
    #22299461 - 09/27/15 04:43 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I'm not quite sure what "pseudo-sclerotia" is.

I've only read about it in random posts.

p. Cubensis does not form actual sclerotia, however, if that is your goal >.<


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InvisibleAlexander Wood
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Registered: 09/24/15
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Re: pseudo sclerotia psilocybe cubensis (strain amazonian) [Re: micro]
    #22308263 - 09/29/15 01:18 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Yes, now it is some kind of goal maybe reached in a few years. :smile:

It is strange that no one seems to be interested in it. In addition to
the question about the growth, there are still some other interesting
things to be clarified.


--------------------
Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen
and thinking what nobody else has thought.


-- Albert Szent-Györgyi --


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: pseudo sclerotia psilocybe cubensis (strain amazonian) [Re: Alexander Wood]
    #22309987 - 09/29/15 06:02 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

This gives some interesting insights:

http://www.mdpi.com/1422-0067/14/11/22967/htm


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OfflineMrcloudy
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Re: pseudo sclerotia psilocybe cubensis (strain amazonian) [Re: micro]
    #22333682 - 10/04/15 05:25 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I still don't understand the difference between psuedosclerotia and true sclerotia is. But I do know that Panaeolus cinctulus produces psudeosclerotia.


--------------------

10 different Ganoderma species from across the USA

AMU

MrCloudys guide to North American GanodermaUpdated A rough guide to North American Ganoderma species, with an emphasis on the laccate species.


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: pseudo sclerotia psilocybe cubensis (strain amazonian) [Re: Mrcloudy]
    #22333947 - 10/04/15 06:17 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Well, "pseudo" from the greek pseudēs meaning "false" leads me to believe it's not actually sclerotia, which bring forth the question: "what defines sclerotia that is not present in these species?"

looking up the one you gave:

Quote:

Panaeolus subbalteatus, an uncommon coprophilous agaric, has been grown in single-spore culture on malt-extract agar.The fungus is heterothallic, exhibiting four sexual groups and a remarkable regularity in its pairing reactions.Both haplophytes and diplophytes produce sclerotia of a striking greenish-blue color. These sclerotia are capable of producing mycelium, even after they have been dried for some weeks, but do not give rise to fruit bodies.The haplophyte is distinguishable macroscopically as well as microscopically from the diplophyte.The mycelia do not exhibit the phenomenon of mutual aversion or barrage.




I can't find any P. cubensis ref's for this, however (I have tried multiple times). I'm not sure there *is* a difference. Everything I've read regarding P. cubensis says it does not form sclerotia. Maybe people are getting it confused with some kind of monokaryotic or homokaryotic isolate that didn't fully fruit? The latter has been known to happen, for example with mutations to the A type mating locus that causes the mycelium to lose it's "self-aversion" and mate with another isolate of the same genetic type.


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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: pseudo sclerotia psilocybe cubensis (strain amazonian) [Re: micro]
    #22336911 - 10/05/15 01:20 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

cubes do not form scletoria they forms blobs which is a reaction to nutrition levels, lack of consolidation on cakes tends to get you these from time to time(shitake are notorious for it).
Scletoria is something grass lovers produce whcih helps them survive things like grass fires


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: pseudo sclerotia psilocybe cubensis (strain amazonian) [Re: cronicr]
    #22337047 - 10/05/15 02:04 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

They are actually called "mounds" if that is what people are referring to when they say "pseudo-sclerotia."

Quote:

An abnormal growth form called mound has been hypothesized to be a neoplasm in the filamentous fungus Schizophyllum commune. An alternative hypothesis is that mounds represent some unusual developmental form in the fruiting body morphogenetic pathway. Hydrophobin proteins have been found in fruiting bodies where they line the surface of gas exchange pores and function to keep the pores hydrophobic. To further determine possible relationships between mounds and fruiting bodies, mound tissue was examined for gas exchange pores and the presence of hydrophobins. Cryoscanning electron microscopic images revealed the presence of channels in mound tissue and presumptive hydrophobin rodlets similar to the air channels in fruiting bodies. Hydrophobin gene expression was also measured in mound tissue using quantitative real-time PCR and showed both monokaryotic and dikaryotic mound tissue exhibited high expression of the dikaryotic specific Sc4 hydrophobin gene. In contrast, Sc4 hydrophobin expression was barely detectable in monokaryotic fruiting bodies. The expression of Sc4 hydrophobin genes in mounds suggests mound development uses this aspect of the dikaryotic fruiting developmental pathway.




Quote:

Two monokaryons of Schizophyllum commune can form a fertile dikaryon when the mating-type genes differ. Monokaryons form sterile aerial hyphae, while dikaryons also form fruiting bodies that function in sexual reproduction. The SC3 hydrophobin gene is expressed both in monokaryons and in dikaryons. The SC4 hydrophobin is dikaryon specific. In the monokaryon, SC3 lowers the water surface tension, coats aerial hyphae with a hydrophobic layer and mediates attachment of hyphae to hydrophobic surfaces. The SC4 protein lines gas channels within fruiting bodies with a hydrophobic membrane. Using gene disruptions, in this study, we show that in dikaryons SC3 fulfils the same roles as in monokaryons. SC4, on the other hand, has a role within fruiting bodies. In contrast to gas channels in fruiting bodies of the wild type, those of a DeltaSC4 strain easily filled with water. Thus, SC4 prevents gas channels filling with water under wet conditions, probably serving uninterrupted gas exchange. Other dikaryon-specific hydrophobin genes, SC1 and SC6, apparently do not substitute for the SC4 gene. In addition, by expressing the SC4 gene behind the SC3 promoter in a DeltaSC3 monokaryon, it was shown that SC4 cannot fully substitute for SC3, indicating that both hydrophobins evolved to fulfil specific functions.




http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18093852

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10760177

Wild types and those cultivated differ in mound production:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC388776/?page=1


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OfflineMrcloudy
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Re: pseudo sclerotia psilocybe cubensis (strain amazonian) [Re: micro]
    #22337064 - 10/05/15 02:12 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)



Here is the pseudosclerotia formed by P.cinctulus. The green color is actually bluing, not mold. It was pretty green in real life.


--------------------

10 different Ganoderma species from across the USA

AMU

MrCloudys guide to North American GanodermaUpdated A rough guide to North American Ganoderma species, with an emphasis on the laccate species.


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Invisibledreadhed
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Re: pseudo sclerotia psilocybe cubensis (strain amazonian) [Re: Mrcloudy]
    #22340847 - 10/06/15 12:06 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

:popcorn:


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OfflineDrCrumbs
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Re: pseudo sclerotia psilocybe cubensis (strain amazonian) [Re: dreadhed]
    #22349129 - 10/08/15 08:43 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

It looks like early sclerotia to me.

What did you start with?
A spore syringe, print, LC, etc?
(Did you make it?)

It really looks like if you got it somewhere else, that it was mixed up and not really amazon, prob like you said Alt#7, P. tampanensis or P. mexicana.

Really cant tell till it fruits, if thats even possible.


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: pseudo sclerotia psilocybe cubensis (strain amazonian) [Re: DrCrumbs]
    #22389100 - 10/16/15 04:06 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Is that not something that got stuck to the glass while sterilising?

Have you opened them yet?


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