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OfflineCrentistTheBensis
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Shmuv box consensus
    #22294687 - 09/26/15 05:19 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Hey everybody,

So I'm having terrible luck with agar work in my still air box. My sterile procedure is pretty over the top, but I'm still seeing a terrible success rate. I cannot afford to buy or build a flow hood,but I recently saw a couple threads involving the use of a shmuv box. My question isn't nessisarily how it works, but rather how WELL it works. If anyone uses one regularly and has any input I would greatly appreciate it!


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OfflineDionili
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Re: Shmuv box consensus [Re: CrentistTheBensis]
    #22294705 - 09/26/15 05:22 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Describe your sterile procedure your lacking some where


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Invisiblejbaby007
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Re: Shmuv box consensus [Re: CrentistTheBensis]
    #22294741 - 09/26/15 05:31 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Check out the Let's Grow Mushrooms videos. RR goes over his sterile technique which is pretty much the same even in a SAB. It doesn't matter if you use a flowhood, a SAB, or a cardboard box, if your technique sucks and you don't know what to look for, your success rates are going to suck. :shrug:


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OfflineCrentistTheBensis
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Re: Shmuv box consensus [Re: Dionili]
    #22294761 - 09/26/15 05:35 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

So I have a 105 quart tote with 2 roughly 4" holes drilled in ithe, anyways this step by step pretty much what I do:
-shower
-brush teeth
-spray sab with lysol and a bleach solution
-wash and dry a large towel
-soak it in soapy water
-lay it on my work surface
-put on gloves, sleeves, mask, etc
-wipe down items with rubbing alc
-place them on towel
-spray and wipe down the box again
-fold edges of towel over the box and tape them
(The box has no bottom, the wet towel is the bottom per spitball sab tek)
-uncover holes and put in my arms
- wipe down all the stuff inside with alc
-proceed to do what I'm doing
-in between each plate or jar or whatever I wipe everything down again
-seal everything up
-done.

I'm sure there is something at some point that I'm doing wrong, but nobody has perfect sterile procedure. I'm assuming that a shmuv would at least be a little bit of a leg up. Am I correct in that assumtion?


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OfflineCrentistTheBensis
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Re: Shmuv box consensus [Re: jbaby007]
    #22294790 - 09/26/15 05:41 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

jbaby007 said:
Check out the Let's Grow Mushrooms videos. RR goes over his sterile technique which is pretty much the same even in a SAB. It doesn't matter if you use a flowhood, a SAB, or a cardboard box, if your technique sucks and you don't know what to look for, your success rates are going to suck. :shrug:



I have the video series, it is most dope. It's cool seeing RR actally do the stuff he posts about, sorta like putting a face to a name.


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Invisiblejbaby007
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Re: Shmuv box consensus [Re: CrentistTheBensis]
    #22294842 - 09/26/15 05:53 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I've never even heard of a shmuv box until this thread so I looked it up. It seems a hell of a lot more complicated than what is necessary. A simple plastic sterilite tub or something similar with some arm holes cut out is all you really need. The SAB doesn't need to be sprayed with lysol or bleach. It's not a sanitary box, it's only used to keep the air still while you are inoculating/g2g/agar.

You can just spray soapy water or even just water on the walls of your SAB that way any loose dust/particles can cling to it while you work on whatever it is you're doing.
Make sure you aren't putting anything (besides your scalpel) over your open media.

Never wipe down with iso after flame sterilizing your needle/scalpel, it defeats the purpose.
When you're working with agar, remember that you can transfer healthy mycelium away from any contams to a new plate too. That's the great thing about agar.

Check out these videos too, they might help.


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Edited by jbaby007 (09/26/15 05:58 PM)


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OfflineCrentistTheBensis
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Re: Shmuv box consensus [Re: jbaby007]
    #22294953 - 09/26/15 06:19 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Thanks man! I think I'll just keep trying it how I'm doing and make any improvements I can think of. Maybe one day I'll make a change to a flow hood or a shmuv box, but I don't think a shmuv will just fix all my problems though. Wishful thinking.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Shmuv box consensus [Re: CrentistTheBensis]
    #22295034 - 09/26/15 06:42 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

If a SAB doesn't work for you, you are the problem. 100s have used it with great success. Techniques are far more important than the tool be it a FH SAB or shumv


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Offlinemushpunx
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Re: Shmuv box consensus [Re: CrentistTheBensis]
    #22295048 - 09/26/15 06:45 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

There are a few folks on here that are much more experienced growers than I do that swear by them.
I don't know too much about them myself though, never used one.

Honestly I would stick with the Still air box. Its definitely not the problem, it has to be an error in your tecnique somewhere. If you are having trouble with agar work in SAB you will have trouble in front of a flow hood too.

The only real edge a flow hood provides is elbow room

What exactly are the troubles you are having with your agar work dude? Whats going wrong exactly?


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Edited by mushpunx (09/26/15 06:46 PM)


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OfflineCrentistTheBensis
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Re: Shmuv box consensus [Re: mushpunx]
    #22295119 - 09/26/15 07:00 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I can't pour a plate or clone tissue really, a zero percent success rate I suppose. Also, when I swipe spores or put tissue on a plate, Trich and bacteria grows fine, but I never see any myc. I assume it's because the myc never has a chance.


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Re: Shmuv box consensus [Re: Dionili]
    #22295126 - 09/26/15 07:01 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Dionili said:
Describe your sterile procedure your lacking some where




:hi:
havnt seen you in a while bro


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Re: Shmuv box consensus [Re: blackdust]
    #22295209 - 09/26/15 07:12 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Are you pouring into disposable plates yea? Have you ever given your plates a couple days wrapped up after you've poured them, to see if they were poured clean?
I


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Edited by mushpunx (09/26/15 07:15 PM)


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OfflineCrentistTheBensis
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Re: Shmuv box consensus [Re: mushpunx]
    #22295370 - 09/26/15 07:30 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Yes to both things. I use pre sterilized plates straight from the sleeve,and they all contamed. When I first got started i bought pre poured plates that I later contamed. If you guys ever need some Trich I'm a fucking master with that shit. I grow it without even trying!:cool:


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Re: Shmuv box consensus [Re: mushpunx]
    #22295381 - 09/26/15 07:33 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

yeah
reccomend practice states to test sterile method by allowing vessels to sit to check for contam isuuses

do this for cakes, grains, agar, etc


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Offlinemushpunx
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Re: Shmuv box consensus [Re: CrentistTheBensis]
    #22295426 - 09/26/15 07:40 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Dude if you saw how green some of my tubs get haha.. like Oscar the grouch in his trash can

So youre plates are getting contaminated during the pour?
The way that usually happens is if your fingers slip under the lids or touch the inside of the plate, even if your fingers don't touch anything they can drop contams into your work.

Is your still air box tall enough to let your work comfortably? Are you turning off anything that would stir up air currents in the room?

I sugguest maybe you try no pour plates for a little while, do some work and see if you can't get better results


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OfflineCrentistTheBensis
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Re: Shmuv box consensus [Re: mushpunx]
    #22295546 - 09/26/15 07:54 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

First of all, thanks man. I really appreciate the replies and the support, you troubleshooting this with me means alot and has inspired me to continue with trial and (mostly) error. Anyways, I have a small room that's pretty ideal with no air currents moving through it. I'm going to get more no pour plates and get that down first, although they are about 2X more expensive, I'd probably end up spending 4X that amount with all the agar and plates I would contam. Some day when I have a fridge full of insanely dope master slants this will all be well worth it.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Shmuv box consensus [Re: CrentistTheBensis]
    #22295562 - 09/26/15 07:57 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

at least with no pour you can re-use. I use pour plates because I get petri dishes free or next to free. if I have to pay it's like 2.50 a sleeve of 20.

it sounds stupid but try rehearsal. if your hands ever go above anything sterile = wrong

there's some good home made vids floating around the shroomery with SAB work too


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OfflineCrentistTheBensis
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Re: Shmuv box consensus [Re: bodhisatta]
    #22295619 - 09/26/15 08:05 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
at least with no pour you can re-use. I use pour plates because I get petri dishes free or next to free. if I have to pay it's like 2.50 a sleeve of 20.

it sounds stupid but try rehearsal. if your hands ever go above anything sterile = wrong

there's some good home made vids floating around the shroomery with SAB work too



I got pre poured and no pour mixed up. I just looked up a no pour tek and that looks like a great way of doing things.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Shmuv box consensus [Re: CrentistTheBensis]
    #22295621 - 09/26/15 08:05 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

pastywhyte's easy agar tek is the one


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OfflineDarkhome
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Re: Shmuv box consensus [Re: bodhisatta]
    #22295628 - 09/26/15 08:07 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
pastywhyte's easy agar tek is the one



:whathesaid:He's 100% right!!!:whathesaid:


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"NOTHING"...I post or say is "TRUE"...Any pictures are taken from the Web and any conversation is just research for a fictional character. That being said; He is constantly seeking knowledge and evolving.


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OfflineCrentistTheBensis
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Re: Shmuv box consensus [Re: bodhisatta]
    #22295753 - 09/26/15 08:34 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
pastywhyte's easy agar tek is the one



I just checked it out. I think everything is going to be just fine.:laugh::thumbup::grin:


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Offlinemushpunx
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Re: Shmuv box consensus [Re: CrentistTheBensis]
    #22295901 - 09/26/15 09:04 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Goodie Gumdrops! I think thats a great place for you to start man. Update us!


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OfflineCrentistTheBensis
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Re: Shmuv box consensus [Re: mushpunx]
    #22295924 - 09/26/15 09:10 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I just ordered what I needed for the easy agar tek, so in a few days I'll do a whole write up with picturesand post it here, just for shits.


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Invisiblemicelio
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Re: Shmuv box consensus [Re: CrentistTheBensis]
    #22296157 - 09/26/15 09:53 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I'm a believer in using your clean room for cultures agar work only.
No growing or mixing substrate in the clean room.
Keep the clean room as small as possible.
clean clothing.
No carpet or rugs in the clean room.
No fans or air movement.
Always wash your arms and hand before entering your clean room.
The bottom of your shoes are a great carrier of contaminates.

There's approximately one million particles in a cubic foot of outside air and one half of all those particles are live contaminates.( John Holliday Aloha medicinal, with his laser counter)

:cookiemonster:


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Re: Shmuv box consensus [Re: micelio]
    #22296234 - 09/26/15 10:07 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Yea man I think this is where a lot of my problems come from. I only do culture/spawn work in that room but its certainly not as clean as I'd like to be able to keep it


But if you keep the table your flow hood is on clean, should it matter what the rest of the room is like if you work in the stream of the flow hood? I mean isnt that the point of a hood? Excluding your clothing, gloves/sleeves, wiping your work and workspoace w ISO etc

And for SABs I would think that goes double?


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Re: Shmuv box consensus [Re: mushpunx]
    #22296344 - 09/26/15 10:33 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Actually from what I have heard a FH needs even more attention to the overall sporeload of the room, but I could use an SAB in a room with 50 loaves of trich ridden bread with success. A FH is just about ergonomics and is by no means more forgiving AFAIK.


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Invisiblemicelio
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Re: Shmuv box consensus [Re: mushpunx]
    #22296347 - 09/26/15 10:33 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

mushpunx said:
Yea man I think this is where a lot of my problems come from. I only do culture/spawn work in that room but its certainly not as clean as I'd like to be able to keep it


But if you keep the table your flow hood is on clean, should it matter what the rest of the room is like if you work in the stream of the flow hood? I mean isnt that the point of a hood? Excluding your clothing, gloves/sleeves, wiping your work and workspoace w ISO etc

And for SABs I would think that goes double?



Your right. Working in the airstream of a flow hood makes all the difference in the world. All my plates are super clean. I haven't seen green in along time.. I still like using a check list though, just to keep myself from getting sloppy...


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Re: Shmuv box consensus [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22296360 - 09/26/15 10:36 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

yep a FH basically needs a dedicated room with surfaces you can wipe down. if you're using it in a room with carpet that's pretty stupid if you ask me. not only that but your sterile technique has to be more spot on too.

still air box you could do that in the mcdonalds play place.


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Re: Shmuv box consensus [Re: bodhisatta]
    #22296366 - 09/26/15 10:36 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
the mcdonalds play place.




:puke:


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OfflineMachiavelliavore
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Re: Shmuv box consensus [Re: bodhisatta]
    #22297033 - 09/27/15 04:31 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
at least with no pour you can re-use. I use pour plates because I get petri dishes free or next to free. if I have to pay it's like 2.50 a sleeve of 20.

it sounds stupid but try rehearsal. if your hands ever go above anything sterile = wrong

there's some good home made vids floating around the shroomery with SAB work too




Seriously, don't put your damn hands above what you're working on.  I used to be focused on a lot of other things, like covering my arms to the elbows with alcohol every time I pulled my arms out of the airbox.  Now I pretty much focus on my hand positioning and trying to be relaxed and smoothe about what I'm doing.  Stopped trying to be speedy and overly santizing.

You can get some nopour plates nearly that cheap from dollartree (5/$1.)  Place is magic for pp5 shit :smile:


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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister.  I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave.  I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent.
Triggered yet?

Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."


No, this does not look right...


Edited by Machiavelliavore (09/27/15 04:32 AM)


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OfflineCrentistTheBensis
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Re: Shmuv box consensus [Re: Machiavelliavore]
    #22297730 - 09/27/15 10:21 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Machiavelliavore said:
Quote:

bodhisatta said:
at least with no pour you can re-use. I use pour plates because I get petri dishes free or next to free. if I have to pay it's like 2.50 a sleeve of 20.

it sounds stupid but try rehearsal. if your hands ever go above anything sterile = wrong

there's some good home made vids floating around the shroomery with SAB work too




Seriously, don't put your damn hands above what you're working on.  I used to be focused on a lot of other things, like covering my arms to the elbows with alcohol every time I pulled my arms out of the airbox.  Now I pretty much focus on my hand positioning and trying to be relaxed and smoothe about what I'm doing.  Stopped trying to be speedy and overly santizing.

You can get some nopour plates nearly that cheap from dollartree (5/$1.)  Place is magic for pp5 shit :smile:



I actually just bought some glad mini rounds, had to order micropre, but i have a really good feeling about next time.


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Re: Shmuv box consensus [Re: CrentistTheBensis]
    #22298028 - 09/27/15 11:25 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

e]bodhisatta said:
yep a FH basically needs a dedicated room with surfaces you can wipe down. if you're using it in a room with carpet that's pretty stupid if you ask me. not only that but your sterile technique has to be more spot on too.

still air box you could do that in the mcdonalds play place.





Thats what I was saying, you should be able to use a still air box anywhere as long as you wash your arms up

But while I got you guys on it

I hear conflicting information about the room a flow hood goes in though. I agree you should put a flow hood on a table that can be wiped clean before every use. You should hit the face with Lysol and run the hood for a while before you work.

  But I always thought that you should be alright as long as you wipe your work down before putting it on the table, work close to the hood, in the area of laminar flow it provides?

When you guys are talking about a dedicated room, I understand you probably don't want a nasty basement.. or yea a carpeted room (though I have an RR quote of him saying he used to work his flowhood in a bedroom with carpets that his dog slept in :lol: ) but do you really have to go beyond keeping the room reasonably clean, like swept and dusted?

I love my flow hood. Its awesome. But I struggle with more contam problems than I should hahaha. I was gunna try switching back to SAB for a minute and see if it makes much of a difference

My agar work in front of the hood is beautiful. I never see bacteria or mold colonies. But past that trich finds its way in


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Re: Shmuv box consensus [Re: mushpunx]
    #22298930 - 09/27/15 02:41 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

When you guys are talking about a dedicated room, I understand you probably don't want a nasty basement.. or yea a carpeted room (though I have an RR quote of him saying he used to work his flowhood in a bedroom with carpets that his dog slept in :lol: ) but do you really have to go beyond keeping the room reasonably clean, like swept and dusted?



I think in any case it's going mainly to come down to sterile technique but if there's dust and crap around it'll certainly make it easier to contaminate your gloves and the stuff your working before it's placed in the sterile field which makes any mistakes more likely to result in contamination.


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Re: Shmuv box consensus [Re: Kizzle]
    #22299003 - 09/27/15 03:02 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Kizzle said:
Quote:

When you guys are talking about a dedicated room, I understand you probably don't want a nasty basement.. or yea a carpeted room (though I have an RR quote of him saying he used to work his flowhood in a bedroom with carpets that his dog slept in :lol: ) but do you really have to go beyond keeping the room reasonably clean, like swept and dusted?



I think in any case it's going mainly to come down to sterile technique but if there's dust and crap around it'll certainly make it easier to contaminate your gloves and the stuff your working before it's placed in the sterile field which makes any mistakes more likely to result in contamination.



Well said..:thumbup:

I have gotten in the habit of buying cheap sandwich bags by the hundreds. My plate come out of the pc and directly into a sandwich bag, then into a plastic shoe boxes, just for that double protection against dust and contaminates floating around.


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Re: Shmuv box consensus [Re: Kizzle]
    #22299536 - 09/27/15 05:01 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Kizzle said:
Quote:

When you guys are talking about a dedicated room, I understand you probably don't want a nasty basement.. or yea a carpeted room (though I have an RR quote of him saying he used to work his flowhood in a bedroom with carpets that his dog slept in :lol: ) but do you really have to go beyond keeping the room reasonably clean, like swept and dusted?



I think in any case it's going mainly to come down to sterile technique but if there's dust and crap around it'll certainly make it easier to contaminate your gloves and the stuff your working before it's placed in the sterile field which makes any mistakes more likely to result in contamination.





Ah, right on man that makes sense. From what I understand (at least w mold like trich) its less floating around in the air and more getting picked up on things yea?

I get what you guys mean now. Thx for clarifying


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