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Erik77johansson77
Stranger 2.1


Registered: 03/12/15
Posts: 65
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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Monotub fruitstage more than three weeks
#22293003 - 09/26/15 11:24 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Hi guys!
I've a monotub with coir/verm/gypsum with almost ~ 1:2 ratio rye-spawn.
It's cubes with agar, isolated to mono then transferred to the rye.
I've been colonizing from 19 august and then into fruiting condition since 4 september until today
Colonized: 16 days (no pins) Fruited: 22 days (today) still no pins.
The monotub has been on 12/12 h with 6500k light. And fan (medium speed) has been on ~ 16h/day.
I've even misted it/manual fanned it. Dunked it even 1 hour. It smells fresh mushroom, but it doesn't pin at all.
What is wrong guys?

-------------------- /Erik
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent



Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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99% of isolates suck that's probably what wrong. Your better of growing MS and taking a clone. If you want isolates find 10 do test cakes keep the one that does well if any of them do. If not find ten more and try again.
I will say tho I'm highly confident you actually don't have an isolate anyway it usually takes over 10 transfers on agar from starting with spores. Unless you have pictures of the culture..
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PirateSwazey


Registered: 12/12/12
Posts: 2,993
Loc: Here, Now
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Re: Monotub fruitstage more than three weeks [Re: bodhisatta]
#22293043 - 09/26/15 11:32 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: 99% of isolates suck that's probably what wrong. Your better of growing MS and taking a clone.
I say this over and over again and people just blow me off like I am telling a stone faced lie...
either that or I'm some kind of sub par grower because I don't believe in isolating cubes
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Erik77johansson77
Stranger 2.1


Registered: 03/12/15
Posts: 65
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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Re: Monotub fruitstage more than three weeks [Re: bodhisatta]
#22293086 - 09/26/15 11:39 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: 99% of isolates suck that's probably what wrong. Your better of growing MS and taking a clone. If you want isolates find 10 do test cakes keep the one that does well if any of them do. If not find ten more and try again.
I will say tho I'm highly confident you actually don't have an isolate anyway it usually takes over 10 transfers on agar from starting with spores. Unless you have pictures of the culture..
hmm sucked like it doesn't fruit or what?
Ahh.. this is actually MS with five transfers until it looked like mono. (No pics)
I've another one going on. It's from a friends spore print (he had large fruits). Would I come to same dead end?
I thought agar was the best thing to do, and isolate.
-------------------- /Erik
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PirateSwazey


Registered: 12/12/12
Posts: 2,993
Loc: Here, Now
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deleted.. useless information.
Edited by PirateSwazey (09/26/15 12:00 PM)
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Erik77johansson77
Stranger 2.1


Registered: 03/12/15
Posts: 65
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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Re: Monotub fruitstage more than three weeks [Re: PirateSwazey]
#22293148 - 09/26/15 11:53 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
PirateSwazey said: Drop spores on agar. Transfer 2 or 3 times to ensure cleanliness. Inoculate grain. Grow it out & put some tissue from the inside of a stem on agar. Transfer 2 or 3 times to ensure cleanliness. Put a wedge in a slant so you can always go back to those younger cells. Store the slant in a little lunchbox inside a mini fridge so it will last a couple years. Grows lots of mushrooms & enjoy your life.
Clones are great:

Highly predictable, simple, beginner friendly, professionally certified 
Well thats what I thought. Im already on fifth transfer on my other project.
But it sounds like isolating mono is dead end, as bodhisatta is saying.
-------------------- /Erik
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PirateSwazey


Registered: 12/12/12
Posts: 2,993
Loc: Here, Now
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Oh please excuse me then... this one's yours bod! lol
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Erik77johansson77
Stranger 2.1


Registered: 03/12/15
Posts: 65
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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Re: Monotub fruitstage more than three weeks [Re: PirateSwazey]
#22301251 - 09/28/15 02:09 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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That's it?
I know mycology develops, have we found out now, 2015, that agar is bad now?
-------------------- /Erik
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Machiavelliavore
Vermiculite Hater



Registered: 12/08/14
Posts: 3,038
Loc: The Sporetorn States
Last seen: 3 months, 19 days
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Agar isn't bad and isolates aren't bad.
But when taking isolates/sectors from MS, all you know is their speed relative to the rest of the plate, and whether they tend to exhibit rhizomorphic behavior on the agar mix you are using. So basically, you don't know much.
You're just as likely to be throwing away good fruiting cultures isolating them. Mostly you're just narrowing down the genetics, which will make random fluctuations more impactful on the result.
By isolating from clone tissue, you're much more likely to get something that fruits well, and especially has consistent production.
Pinning on agar might be a sign of a good fruiting culture from MS, certainly better than no information.
Your result is really surprisingly bad though. I wonder if something else is going wrong. Is is a variety that is known for being slow like PE, TC, F+?
Edited by Machiavelliavore (09/28/15 03:09 AM)
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Erik77johansson77
Stranger 2.1


Registered: 03/12/15
Posts: 65
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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Quote:
Machiavelliavore said: Agar isn't bad and isolates aren't bad.
But when taking isolates/sectors from MS, all you know is their speed relative to the rest of the plate, and whether they tend to exhibit rhizomorphic behavior on the agar mix you are using. So basically, you don't know much.
You're just as likely to be throwing away good fruiting cultures isolating them. Mostly you're just narrowing down the genetics, which will make random fluctuations more impactful on the result.
By isolating from clone tissue, you're much more likely to get something that fruits well, and especially has consistent production.
Pinning on agar might be a sign of a good fruiting culture from MS, certainly better than no information.
Your result is really surprisingly bad though. I wonder if something else is going wrong. Is is a variety that is known for being slow like PE, TC, F+?
Thanks for the reply, it clarifies things.
It's Cambodian.
-------------------- /Erik
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PirateSwazey


Registered: 12/12/12
Posts: 2,993
Loc: Here, Now
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Quote:
Erik77johansson77 said: That's it?
I know mycology develops, have we found out now, 2015, that agar is bad now?
Nobody said agar is bad. We're saying you isolated shit genes which is why we suggested you just grow a MS culture. Because it is multispore it will have a very wide variety of genes and actually produce mushrooms, then you can just take a clone and work with that. Always use agar to ensure you have clean inoculant...
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PirateSwazey


Registered: 12/12/12
Posts: 2,993
Loc: Here, Now
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Re: Monotub fruitstage more than three weeks [Re: PirateSwazey]
#22302317 - 09/28/15 11:15 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Erik77johansson77
Stranger 2.1


Registered: 03/12/15
Posts: 65
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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Re: Monotub fruitstage more than three weeks [Re: PirateSwazey]
#22303067 - 09/28/15 02:08 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
PirateSwazey said: Here is an old thread I made on this topic, hopefully it will help you understand...
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=21241904&page=0&vc=1#21241904
Thats a good info. I've missed totally regarding agar iso.
Quote:
Let's talk about isolates. Preferably people who have actual experience in working with them. A lot of new people have been starting off working with agar and I feel like they have a misunderstanding about isos.
it hit me immediately.
I'll try and make a cake first, then clone it.
When I clone it, should I transfer few time... or is the first "tissue agar" enough to put in the grains?
-------------------- /Erik
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PirateSwazey


Registered: 12/12/12
Posts: 2,993
Loc: Here, Now
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You transfer a few times to insure it's a clean source of inoculant.
Look at the top of my 2nd post in this thread again, the one that you quoted.
Also I wouldn't do a cake, just put 1 drop of MS solution on a plate, transfer a few times and inoculate grain jars. That way you can go ahead and get some ounces... If you do a cake then you're putting spores straight to substrate which is silly if you have the ways and means to use agar. That and the cake will only give you a few grams!
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