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HardTrippin
The Ambivalent



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If Plato Were Alive Today He Would Be a Psychonaut
#22292709 - 09/26/15 10:24 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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In Plato's Phaedo, the classic text depicting Socrates philosophizing on the nature of the soul with his friends in his cell while awaiting his execution, Plato asserts what he believes to be the right way to practice philosophy, namely, "training to die easily" (81a).
Plato believes that the soul of one who practiced philosophy in the right way (lived the right way) would "make it's way to the invisible, which is like itself, the divine and immortal and wise, and arriving there it can be happy, having rid itself of confusion, ignorance, fear, violent desires and the other human ills and, as is said of the initiates, truly spend the rest of time with the gods." (81a)
Finally, when discussing how the soul gains knowledge, Plato asserts that it is the case that "when the soul investigates by itself (without the limitations of the senses) it passes into the realm of what is pure, ever existing, immortal and unchanging, and being akin to this, it always stays with it whenever it is by itself and can do so; it ceases to stray and remains in the same state as it is in touch with things of the same kind, and its experience then is what is called wisdom" (79d).
So, what do you guys think? Doesn't it seem like if Plato were to be turned onto DMT he would have spent much of his time in the psychedelic experience, seeking boundary dissolution and the infinite void? Would he not make ego death and the growth of the soul his number one priority? He stresses in the Phaedo several times that the body and its pains and appetites are a hindrance to true wisdom and the cleanliness of the soul (79c, 80e, 81b, 81c-e).
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DividedQuantum
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Re: If Plato Were Alive Today He Would Be a Psychonaut [Re: HardTrippin] 1
#22292805 - 09/26/15 10:44 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Or, alternatively, you could look at it a different way and posit that Plato's philosophy is an example of the fact that psychedelic substances are not necessary to achieve these mind-states. Experience of the numinous is an objective phenomenon; Plato did it without drugs/substances. As did a legion of others.
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HardTrippin
The Ambivalent



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Re: If Plato Were Alive Today He Would Be a Psychonaut [Re: DividedQuantum]
#22292852 - 09/26/15 10:54 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I don't think your position necessarily conflicts with mine. While it's true that psychedelics aren't necessary to have mystical experiences, they certainly catalyze those kinds of experiences. Besides, there is actually evidence that perhaps Plato had tried psychedelics. In the Phaedrus, Plato defends love, despite the fact that it is a form of madness. In his defense he gives the example of the divine nature of the madness that comes upon the oracles of Delphi (244b). He speaks of fine achievements "that are due to God-sent madness" (245b). So, even if he didn't himself partake of psychedelics, that may only have been because they were a cherished secret of the mystics.
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HardTrippin
The Ambivalent



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Re: If Plato Were Alive Today He Would Be a Psychonaut [Re: HardTrippin]
#22292872 - 09/26/15 10:57 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Given how widespread psychedelic knowledge is now, it may very well be that many in the past who experienced the numinous without them would make use of them today. Especially considering it is harder to find the time in this day and age to devote the kind of time necessary to experiencing the numinous. Even philosophers are more pressured to publish and engage in topics that they might not wish to have to remain engaged with.
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DividedQuantum
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Re: If Plato Were Alive Today He Would Be a Psychonaut [Re: HardTrippin]
#22292929 - 09/26/15 11:09 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Those are very reasonable points.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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HardTrippin
The Ambivalent



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Re: If Plato Were Alive Today He Would Be a Psychonaut [Re: DividedQuantum]
#22292973 - 09/26/15 11:20 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thank you sir. I'm glad you engaged. How else are we to refine our beliefs?
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Kurt
Thinker, blinker, writer, typer.

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Re: If Plato Were Alive Today He Would Be a Psychonaut [Re: HardTrippin]
#22295193 - 09/26/15 07:11 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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SleepyE
DMT is metaphysical



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Re: If Plato Were Alive Today He Would Be a Psychonaut [Re: DividedQuantum]
#22295203 - 09/26/15 07:12 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
DividedQuantum said: the fact that psychedelic substances are not necessary to achieve these mind-states. Experience of the numinous is an objective phenomenon; Plato did it without drugs/substances.
plato aint getting nowhere as close as me slamming 100mg+ dmt in bong
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Edited by SleepyE (09/26/15 07:26 PM)
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: If Plato Were Alive Today He Would Be a Psychonaut [Re: HardTrippin]
#22299715 - 09/27/15 05:51 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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There is a real possibility that Plato DID derive his idea of the Forms from psychedelic Experience - during the Mystery Rites of Eleusis. I have even read a hypothesis (possibly Daniel Merkur) that a reason why his mentor Socrates was put to death was for 'corruption of youth,' was because of having obtained the psychedelic kykeon used at Eleusis, and administering it to his followers independently of the prescribed use within the Mystery Rites. Just a hypothesis. Nevertheless, the Mystery Rites of Eleusis were performed for 1000 years. Ordinary people saved up for years to afford it, but it resulted in the end of people's fear of death. There is no price that can be put on such a liberation. Participants at Eleusis were informed that speaking about the rites outside of Eleusis, revealing what took place to the uninitiated, would be punishable by death. The kykeon has been hypothesized to be not merely a barley and mint decoction, but an infusion of a milder form of ergot called Claviceps pasapali, not the more potent but more dangerous Claviceps purpurea (from which LSD was originally synthesized). So, Plato may have tripped on Lysergic acid amides at Eleusis.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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ReposadoXochipilli
Here, there, inbetween



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Re: If Plato Were Alive Today He Would Be a Psychonaut [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#22299747 - 09/27/15 06:00 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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yes i love the greek mythology surrounding the ambrosia, kykeon, and other goodies. they say it is/was completely secret but i think that is just post Christianity, they don't like competition.
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MarkostheGnostic
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Religion was matriarchal during the Mycenean Period of Greece. Christianity cannot be blamed for the disappearance of the cult which disappeared BCE. The mythology of Demeter and Persephone did form the mythic basis, but the practices are historically based. Now, Eleusis is a nasty polluted oil field.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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