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Invisibleluvdemboomers
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Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 5,054
Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: lowbrow]
    #22392936 - 10/17/15 11:35 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

lowbrow said:
Are you Jewish?




He's not trying to ban diesel or ovens so I doubt it


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: endogenous]
    #22392960 - 10/17/15 11:42 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Considered to be technically armor piercing by who?  A bunch of jerk offs?  More language perversion.  The legal definition "seems" to be?  Kevlar?  I would venture that the vast majority of center-fire ammunition can pierce a Kevlar vest to at least some extent.  Which has absolutely nothing to do with the incident being discussed.  Shotgun loads can pierce a theater seat.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: endogenous]
    #22393011 - 10/17/15 12:03 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

endogenous said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

endogenous said:
Maybe the core of the "banning" problem is that police don't want to have to wear armor plates inside their vests and bullets that kill animals can penetrate kevlar.

Ultimately it's ending up at banning all hunting bullets.



Who cares what police want?  Why should that even be a significant factor? Police are an extreme minority of the population.



Well - we were talking about the definition of "armor piercing".

I would think that most people would consider the legal definition to be the accepted one.

The legal definition seems to be that any bullet that can penetrate the kevlar of a "bullet proof" vest (a vest without an armor plate insert) is "armor piercing". This would make all bullets used in the "ethical" killing of animals armor piercing bullets.

According to the Forbes article, the law says that bullets used primarily for "sport" (hunting and shooting competition) are exempt, but they are still considered to be "armor piercing" if they can penetrate a kevlar vest.

Therefore, the mother of the girl who was murdered at the Aurora theater was legally correct in calling the M855 an "armor piercing"  bullet.





that's why they were wanting to change the definition, because it's not armor
piercing as it's defined or in actual use, it will go through soft body armor
but a number of hand gun rounds will as well, if they changed the definition
of armor piercing then it would make it easier to ban a class of bullets such
as those from hunting rifles or "anything that can penetrate kevlar"

as it is, that legal definition of armor piercing ammo does nothing but define
what is considered armor piercing, it doesnt ban it's possession or use by
civilians and the legal definition describes the bullet, not the types of
protection it can penetrate


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: endogenous]
    #22393088 - 10/17/15 12:29 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

endogenous said:

The legal definition seems to be that any bullet that can penetrate the kevlar of a "bullet proof" vest



Where?  That's not the federal definition.  The federal definition is found in 18 U.S.C. § 921(17)(B):

"(B) The term “armor piercing ammunition” means--

(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or

(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.


(C) The term “armor piercing ammunition” does not include shotgun shot required by Federal or State environmental or game regulations for hunting purposes, a frangible projectile designed for target shooting, a projectile which the Attorney General finds is primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes, or any other projectile or projectile core which the Attorney General finds is intended to be used for industrial purposes, including a charge used in an oil and gas well perforating device."


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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: Enlil]
    #22393298 - 10/17/15 01:33 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

i read obama was going to be making more gun laws using is pen soon, wonder whats in store for us next


--------------------
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Invisibleluvdemboomers
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Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 5,054
Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #22393320 - 10/17/15 01:39 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
i read obama was going to be making more gun laws using is pen soon, wonder whats in store for us next



Idk but I'm about to start hording


Funny thing is I never really had the desire to buy ar's/ak's until all this talk about a ban. With elections coming up that long range rifles gonna have to wait.


Edited by luvdemboomers (10/17/15 01:40 PM)


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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: luvdemboomers]
    #22393334 - 10/17/15 01:42 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

honestly ar's would make a better hunting rifle, bolt actions you don't really get much of a follow up shot.  Plus Ar's you dont have to worry about screwing the wood up, and if u run into a fucking bear an ar will be 100x better to have


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


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Invisibleluvdemboomers
loner with a boner
Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 5,054
Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #22393383 - 10/17/15 01:56 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
honestly ar's would make a better hunting rifle, bolt actions you don't really get much of a follow up shot.  Plus Ar's you dont have to worry about screwing the wood up, and if u run into a fucking bear an ar will be 100x better to have




I don't hunt, I like precision shooting. I want a bolt for that cause it's cheaper to shoot considering with a semi auto I get trigger happy and tend to not take my time with shots. Plus a sub moa bolt gun is 1/3 the price of a sub moa ar.

Bout to buy my first ar, probably going to get a colt and throw an aimpoint on it.


Edited by luvdemboomers (10/17/15 01:58 PM)


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #22394123 - 10/17/15 04:11 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
i read obama was going to be making more gun laws using is pen soon, wonder whats in store for us next





obama cannot make laws


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OfflineThatKidWithTheFace
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: myc_check1212]
    #22394197 - 10/17/15 04:29 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

myc_check1212 said:
Quote:

ThatKidWithTheFace said:
Called it.

Someone owes me a dollar.




I can get you a single round of green tip. It's the best I can do. Hold onto it, evidently they're more deadlier.




I'll take it!


--------------------
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[quote]Sheekle said:
[quote]ThatKidWithTheFace said:
Is this the same aunt that fucks dogs?[/quote]
u bet ur ass it is.[/quote]


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Offlineendogenous
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #22394316 - 10/17/15 05:01 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
that's why they were wanting to change the definition, because it's not armor
piercing as it's defined or in actual use, it will go through soft body armor
but a number of hand gun rounds will as well, if they changed the definition
of armor piercing then it would make it easier to ban a class of bullets such
as those from hunting rifles or "anything that can penetrate kevlar"



However, the Forbes article is saying that all the hunting rifle bullets are already considered "armor piercing" but they are exempt from the ban because the DOJ has considered them to be primarily used for "sporting" purposes. The DOJ makes that decision and can change it.



--------------------
The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.


Edited by endogenous (10/17/15 05:16 PM)


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: endogenous] * 1
    #22394335 - 10/17/15 05:05 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I really wouldn't trust Forbes as an authority on the law.


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Offlineendogenous
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: Enlil]
    #22394389 - 10/17/15 05:16 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

The article says that the DOJ is saying that they can ban any rifle bullet that can also be used in a hand gun.

From the article: "The definition for what constitutes “armor piercing” reads: “a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely … from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium.

Now, to be as nitpicky as the law, the M855 ball ammunition the ATF wants to ban as “armor piercing” doesn’t have a core made of the metals listed in what legally makes a bullet “armor piercing.” The M855 actually has a lead core with a steel tip. Also, the M855 is traditionally a rifle cartridge and the ban only covers handgun ammunition. The DOJ argues this doesn’t stop them because the law stipulates they can ban a bullet that “may be used in a handgun.” And, after all, any cartridge may be used in a handgun."


--------------------
The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.


Edited by endogenous (10/17/15 05:27 PM)


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Invisibleluvdemboomers
loner with a boner
Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 5,054
Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: endogenous]
    #22394457 - 10/17/15 05:29 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)



Stop. You're just googling shit and copy/pasting and/or regurgitating whatever supports your view despite the overwhelming evidence you are wrong.

For the 4th time,

Quote:

What evidence do you have to support your claim that m855 is armor piercing?

What would you consider evidence that it is not armor piercing? I have already provided you with a penetration test that contradicts your claim but for whatever reason, that's not evidence.

And regardless of how it is defined, why should m855 be banned?





Edited by luvdemboomers (10/17/15 06:53 PM)


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: endogenous]
    #22394597 - 10/17/15 06:06 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

endogenous said:
The article says that the DOJ is saying that they can ban any rifle bullet that can also be used in a hand gun.

From the article: "The definition for what constitutes “armor piercing” reads: “a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely … from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium.

Now, to be as nitpicky as the law, the M855 ball ammunition the ATF wants to ban as “armor piercing” doesn’t have a core made of the metals listed in what legally makes a bullet “armor piercing.” The M855 actually has a lead core with a steel tip. Also, the M855 is traditionally a rifle cartridge and the ban only covers handgun ammunition. The DOJ argues this doesn’t stop them because the law stipulates they can ban a bullet that “may be used in a handgun.” And, after all, any cartridge may be used in a handgun."




That is a poor reading of the law.  Under §921(17)(B)(i), it is only armor piercing ammunition if it meets BOTH of the following requirements:

1. May be used in a handgun, AND,
2. is constructed entirely from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium.

In other words, a round with a slug of lead core is not an armor-piercing round regardless of whether or not it can be fired from a handgun.


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Offlineendogenous
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: endogenous]
    #22394865 - 10/17/15 07:12 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I agree that it seems weak. I assume that this is what the DOJ is saying though unless there's somewhere else that makes it clearer. It does seem like this is what the article was referring to though.


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The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.


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OfflineSonofHorus
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: endogenous]
    #22395058 - 10/17/15 07:57 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Didn't read entire post but isn't family on the hook for the lawsuit they brought? I feel they should not have sued ammo maker and also feel the ammo maker should let it go.

Can't sue my spore dealer if the shrooms I grow don't turn out great, can I?


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Invisiblemyc_check1212
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: SonofHorus] * 1
    #22396403 - 10/18/15 06:28 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Why should the ammo dealer take a $203,000 loss to a bogus lawsuit?

Would you take that out of your bottom line?


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Invisibleluvdemboomers
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: myc_check1212] * 1
    #22399833 - 10/18/15 08:02 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Haha! Endogenous ignored me.


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OfflineShroomslip
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: luvdemboomers] * 2
    #22399875 - 10/18/15 08:09 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Me too.


--------------------
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I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today.
Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear.
I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear.


You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being
With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline


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