|
koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,059
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 14 minutes, 44 seconds
|
Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: qman]
#22292380 - 09/26/15 09:13 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Exactly. When gangs have easy access to guns, they use them
--------------------
NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
|
Shroomslip
Architekt



Registered: 11/25/12
Posts: 23,651
Last seen: 44 minutes, 7 seconds
|
Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: koods]
#22292395 - 09/26/15 09:16 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
koods said: You just said the problem is mentally unhinged insane people. How do you plan on solving that problem?
Quote:
I'll admit I really have no ideas on how to fix this system or how to identify the psychos who are going to shoot people, but IMO it's better to admit that than act as if removing guns is the solution to this problem.
--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
|
luvdemboomers
loner with a boner
Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 5,054
|
Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: endogenous]
#22292397 - 09/26/15 09:16 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
lol they're donating the money to gun rights groups
That's like the biggest fuck you ever lmao
Feel kinda bad for the parents but serves them right for trying to sue...
Edited by luvdemboomers (09/26/15 09:16 AM)
|
makaveli8x8
Stranger

Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 21,636
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
|
Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: luvdemboomers]
#22292412 - 09/26/15 09:21 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
203k is a lot of money, they could have bought everyone in that theater a bullet proof vest and saved countless lives
--------------------
  We were sent to hell for eternity Ø h® We play on earth to pass the time Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
|
Shroomslip
Architekt



Registered: 11/25/12
Posts: 23,651
Last seen: 44 minutes, 7 seconds
|
Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: koods]
#22292435 - 09/26/15 09:28 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
koods said: Exactly. When gangs have easy access to guns, they use them
Criminals (gang members in this particular context) literally do not give a single mother fucking shit if the gun is illegal. Most are felons who are NOT allowed to own guns (won't even pass a background check to get it) they still have them and use them.
Dude guns aren't going to away. It is ridiculously irrational to think they will. Criminals will still have their guns and be able to obtain them in the future on the black market. That is the end of the story, there are no if, ands or buts. Period.
What's worse to you? Having criminals with unregistered guns that short of finger prints can never be tied to that person, or guns that went through legal channels so that it can be tied to a certain owner? Every single time someone talks about a gun ban, this is basically the reality of the situation. You are advocating the only people able to get them, keep them and use them are criminals with nothing directly tying them to the gun they illegally obtained and used to kill with.
It's just ridiculous.
Find a way to take the guns out of the hands of ALL criminals and keep it that way, and then we can talk about a ban on guns. Until then, you're just being foolish.
--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
|
flickedbic
Sojourner



Registered: 03/21/11
Posts: 4,673
Loc: Fractalic Fabric
Last seen: 5 hours, 50 minutes
|
Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: Shroomslip] 2
#22292690 - 09/26/15 10:21 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
From OP: Quote:
(...)a brief window of opportunity to bring awareness to the number one public health crisis facing this nation today which is rampant gun violence.
#1 crisis; really?
Quote:
Gun Violence and a public push for a debate on new gun control laws is a hot topic, especially after even more recent shootings. I was interested in what the actual, unbiased statistics were as far as how many gun related murders are committed each year in the United States. I did my own digging around on the FBI’s website for violent crimes here: Crime in the United States – FBI Statistics
The result might be shocking to some of the people raising an outcry, and especially to the media who seems to be covering the issue nonstop.
The Straight Statistics:
1995: 16,305 murders involving firearms (a 46.3% increase compared to 1985)
2007: 10,129 murders involving firearms (out of 14,916 murders total)
2011: 8,583 murders involving firearms (out of 12,664 murders total)
Results: Murders involving firearms have dropped by 50% in the last 15 years roughly. They have also been steadily decreasing a substantial amount each year over the past 5 years.
http://daydull.com/rants/gun-control-statistics-straight-facts-is-gun-violence-murder-increasing-or-decreasing/
The trend continues: http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2014/02/19/fbi-report-shows-violent-crime-decreased-as-gun-purchases-increased/
-------------------- Favorite entheogen experiences in descending order: 1)Combo of oral DMT + smoked Bufotenine 2)Amanita (urine drank twice) 3)Mushrooms > Achuma 16"+cid(still need higher dose Achuma)> Cid (still need high dose) 4)Morning Glory-HBWR (+cumin, cinnamon aldehyde adducts) > Methyl chavicol (need more activators) 5)Salvia (need to try quid)
All readable matter in the above post is ficticious... any similarities to real life are purely coincidental. Blessing.
Edited by flickedbic (09/26/15 10:46 AM)
|
r.lutece
gave Columbia her wings.



Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 745
Loc: ∅
|
Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: flickedbic]
#22292773 - 09/26/15 10:39 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Gun laws are tricky things, but I'm of the mind that prohibition will not solve any problems that the US faces when it comes to gun violence.
It really is a symptom of a bigger problem. Look at Switzerland. Everyone in Switzerland owns a gun, but they're aren't allowed to own ammunition. They also have much better social systems for taking care of the lower and middle classes than the US does along with a higher standard of education. While not the lowest in the world, their homicide rate is much lower than the US'.
Can we learn from this? Probably. Will we? I don't know. I want to believe yes, but I think we're almost too deeply entrenched in our own shit to solve any of these problems by this point. I really do want to be wrong about this, but we are not a country of wise social decisions.
-------------------- One goes into an experiment knowing one might fail. But one does not undertake an experiment knowing one HAS failed.
|
joe666
The ReverendToke DBK


Registered: 09/13/01
Posts: 20,081
Loc: Southern by grace of God
Last seen: 9 months, 26 days
|
Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: endogenous]
#22292782 - 09/26/15 10:40 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
endogenous said: This is from http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lonnie-and-sandy-phillips/lucky-gunner-lawsuit_b_8197804.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592
Lonnie and Sandy Phillips
We have been getting a lot of questions about our lawsuit against Lucky Gunner, the online company that sold ammunition to the man who murdered our daughter Jessica along with 11 others in an Aurora, Colorado, theater. Especially after the Rachel Maddow Show covered us twice, people ask us about the judge's order that we pay Lucky Gunner's attorneys' fees, since our lawsuit was unsuccessful.
We brought our lawsuit because we thought it was outrageous that companies could sell a dangerous man an arsenal without getting any information about him, and without making any effort to see if he was a dangerous killer -- which he was. When the killer had left a voicemail with a shooting range, the range operator knew that he was bad news and shouldn't be given access to guns. But these companies set up their business so people just like this killer can arm themselves at the click of a mouse. We wanted to change that. And we still do.
Attorneys at Arnold and Porter and the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence brought the lawsuit for us, pro bono. We knew the risks of bringing the case. We knew that Colorado and Congress have given special protection of the gun industry, and we knew that under Colorado law we could even be ordered to pay attorneys' fees because of those special protections.
But we thought it was important to take a stand, to fight to prevent other families from suffering as we have. We did not seek any money in our case. We just wanted injunctive relief -- to have these companies act reasonably when they sold dangerous materiel, like 100-round ammunition magazines, ammunition, body armor, and tear gas.
The judge dismissed our case because, he said, these online sellers had special immunity from the general duty to use reasonable care under the federal Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act and a Colorado immunity law. If you couple the PLCAA law with Colorado's law HB 000-208, (which says in essence: If you bring a civil case against a gun or ammunition seller and the case is dismissed then the plaintiff must pay all the defendant's costs), you have an impenetrable barrier to using the judicial system to effect change in gun legislation in Colorado.
Everyone else in society has a duty to use reasonable care to not injure others -- except gun and ammunition sellers.
To make matters worse, the judge ordered that we pay $203,000. This is an outrageous amount, especially given that this case was decided after one single motion! Lucky Gunner has said that it is going to donate all these fees to "gun rights" groups. The thought is disgusting to us that Lucky Gunner does not even plan to use this money to pay for their attorney's fees.
Lucky Gunner wants to use blood money to fund the NRA and like-minded groups. See for yourself. Check out Lucky Gunner's self-serving description of our case then click on "Head Here" (the green words at the end of Lucky Gunner's last sentence) to find out how the money is to be distributed.
The law says we are responsible for these fees, which we recognize. We do not have the money to pay this amount. The Judge insinuated in his order that Brady should pay since he said they were the instigators. If this was a ploy designed to give the appearance that Brady was responsible and turn us against each other, it did not work.
Brady is still fighting for us pro bono and we see no evidence that the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence will not help us raise funds if and when that time comes.
We believe that the judge's decision was wrong, and that it is unconstitutional to financially punish people for bringing a lawsuit, especially a public interest case that did not seek a dime. But rather than risk possibly being ordered to pay even more fees, we are changing our focus from going after these laws in the judicial branch (we have dropped our appeal) to getting them overturned on the legislative level.
We have brought attorney Dan Wartell with the law firm Jones & Keller into our team who is also helping us.
We hope that we are spearheading a movement to expose these egregious and unconstitutional laws for what they really are. They are an attack on our civil liberties. With these laws in place ordinary citizens are effectively barred by the exorbitant cost from bringing any civil action against sellers of firearms and ammunition.
It is un-American and outrageous that these special laws can deny us our day in court simply because we were victimized by the gun industry. Our lawsuit was not frivolous. Our Jessi was shot multiple times with high-velocity, armor-piercing bullets that were designed by our military to inflict maximum damage on enemy combatants.
One of the six, steel-jacketed bullets that killed her slammed through a theater seat, entered her left eye and left a five-inch hole in her face as it blew her brains out on to the theater floor. The other five specially designed bullets tumbled when they tore through her flesh and did devastating damage to both legs, arms and intestines.
Those bullets were six of 4,000 that Lucky Gunner sold to a mass murderer in one sale without even checking his driver's license.
Why is there a law that says you cannot sue an ammunitions dealer that allowed 4,000 rounds of armor-piercing bullets into the wrong hands?
How else are we as citizens going to get them to stop doing that?
No other industry has this immunity.
The horrific and public execution of our daughter Jessi and 11 other beautiful young lives has given us a brief window of opportunity to bring awareness to the number one public health crisis facing this nation today which is rampant gun violence. It is unfathomable to me that the billion dollar gun lobby can intimidate our Congress and some state legislatures into passing laws that give the gun industry immunity against irresponsible acts that enables them to arm, and profit from, domestic terrorists, and other killers.
It is abhorrent to us as the parents of a child who has been killed by a person with outwardly obvious mental issues who was able to easily access a one hundred round magazine and 4,000 rounds of armor-piercing bullets online without a valid ID.
Who is our last line of defense that makes that conscious decision to not ask for ID before selling large orders of lethal, military-grade armament? Online sellers, knowing they are shielded by immunity laws, refuse to put into place even minimal safeguards that would save lives. That is abhorrent to us.
One of the ways that we can level the playing field is to create precedents in our court rooms that make gun and ammunition dealers pay a price for conduct that contributes to gun violence. Another way is to lobby our state and federal legislators to repeal these laws. That is our objective.
We are calling on the citizens of this country and the gun violence prevention community to stand ready to help us get in the face of state and national legislators. Join us in helping to get the word out to the American citizens who are not aware of how these laws take away the rights of victims of gun violence.
_______________
Lonnie and Sandy Phillips' daughter, Jessica Ghawi, was murdered in the Aurora, Colorado theater massacre in 2012. Since then, they have become advocates for common-sense gun laws in America. Their non-profit, Jessi's Message, allows them to take their trailer and travel the country telling their story and working with fellow victims and survivors of violence.
I love stories with happy endings.
-------------------- "A politician is like a baby's diaper, it should be changed often and for the same reason"-Coy Turner Sr. "what is a weed, a plant whose virtues have not yet been discovered"--Ralph Waldo Emerson "I'm sippin Hennessy, riding on my muthafucking enemies" -Meek Mill.
|
luvdemboomers
loner with a boner
Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 5,054
|
Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: flickedbic]
#22292798 - 09/26/15 10:44 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
flickedbic said:
Quote:
Gun Violence and a public push for a debate on new gun control laws is a hot topic, especially after even more recent shootings. I was interested in what the actual, unbiased statistics were as far as how many gun related murders are committed each year in the United States. I did my own digging around on the FBI’s website for violent crimes here: Crime in the United States – FBI Statistics
The result might be shocking to some of the people raising an outcry, and especially to the media who seems to be covering the issue nonstop.
The Straight Statistics:
1995: 16,305 murders involving firearms (a 46.3% increase compared to 1985)
2007: 10,129 murders involving firearms (out of 14,916 murders total)
2011: 8,583 murders involving firearms (out of 12,664 murders total)
Results: Murders involving firearms have dropped by 50% in the last 15 years roughly. They have also been steadily decreasing a substantial amount each year over the past 5 years.
The trend continues: http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2014/02/19/fbi-report-shows-violent-crime-decreased-as-gun-purchases-increased/
Let's not forget "assault rifles" were banned between 1994 and 2004.
|
joe666
The ReverendToke DBK


Registered: 09/13/01
Posts: 20,081
Loc: Southern by grace of God
Last seen: 9 months, 26 days
|
Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: luvdemboomers]
#22292818 - 09/26/15 10:46 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
We just celebrated Sunset day just a couple weeks ago.
September 13, 2004 was the day the AWB expired and was not renewed
-------------------- "A politician is like a baby's diaper, it should be changed often and for the same reason"-Coy Turner Sr. "what is a weed, a plant whose virtues have not yet been discovered"--Ralph Waldo Emerson "I'm sippin Hennessy, riding on my muthafucking enemies" -Meek Mill.
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
|
Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: koods]
#22292819 - 09/26/15 10:46 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
koods said: Exactly. When gangs have easy access to guns, they use them
Felons do not have easy access to guns. It is against the law for a felon to possess a gun. How's that law working out?
--------------------
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
|
Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: zappaisgod]
#22292831 - 09/26/15 10:50 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Thhose peopple are idiots. If I buy a hammer and smash somebody's head in with it do they have redress against the hammer manufacturer?
These idiots don't know what unconstitutional means. I will say that it is rare to be awarded attorney's fees. The judge must have thought that the case was egregiously stupid.
--------------------
|
makaveli8x8
Stranger

Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 21,636
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
|
Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: zappaisgod]
#22292877 - 09/26/15 10:57 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
what I find funny is they basically lost a house ($200k) to the legal system and they are still poking their nose into the law system. I guess trying to change laws has little risk thanks to the lawyers working for free, I guess I just feel like after they got raped so hard they should go stick their head in the sand or something and accept their thinking is flawed.
--------------------
  We were sent to hell for eternity Ø h® We play on earth to pass the time Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
|
Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: makaveli8x8] 1
#22292893 - 09/26/15 11:00 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
They didn't lose it to the legal system. They lost it because they caused an innocent party harm.
--------------------
|
makaveli8x8
Stranger

Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 21,636
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
|
Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: zappaisgod]
#22292917 - 09/26/15 11:06 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
naw they paid legal costs, that's losing money to the legal system. I don't recall seeing anything about paying damages for ruining the ammo makers reputation or anything along those lines
--------------------
  We were sent to hell for eternity Ø h® We play on earth to pass the time Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
|
Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: makaveli8x8]
#22292927 - 09/26/15 11:09 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
They are the ones who brought the suit.. Nobody forced them to. They lost money to their own idiocy. The legal system exists to settle disputes. If an idiot brings a stupid suit that costs a defendant money to counter than the idiot is responsible for harming the defendant. Not the legal system.
--------------------
|
Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
|
Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: endogenous] 1
#22293004 - 09/26/15 11:24 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
endogenous said: We have been getting a lot of questions about our lawsuit against Lucky Gunner, the online company that sold ammunition to the man who murdered our daughter
well right there is the problem, sure, in the US you can in fact sue anyone for anything, the things with lawsuits is, you have to prove that the defendant actually caused the loss, failing to do so, you lose your case and you're stuck paying for the lawsuits
so, keep this in mind when filing frivolous lawsuits, dont be a dumbass and sue a business because you're a retard that thinks everyone owes you because some asshole went on a killing spree, instead, sue the theater that told everyone they arent allowed to bring their own guns into the theater which left everyone defenseless except the gunman
the theater made the victims easy targets, ever wonder why the mass shooting take place in areas where guns are banned?
|
r.lutece
gave Columbia her wings.



Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 745
Loc: ∅
|
Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: Prisoner#1]
#22293064 - 09/26/15 11:35 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said: the theater made the victims easy targets, ever wonder why the mass shooting take place in areas where guns are banned?
Let's not confuse correlation with causation. Theaters, malls, schools, etc. aren't chosen because the victims aren't likely to be able to defend themselves (though that's almost always the case). Rather, they're chosen because large numbers of people have gathered and the assault can have the most impact, which is why these institutions ban weapons.
-------------------- One goes into an experiment knowing one might fail. But one does not undertake an experiment knowing one HAS failed.
|
luvdemboomers
loner with a boner
Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 5,054
|
Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: r.lutece] 1
#22293105 - 09/26/15 11:44 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
r.lutece said:
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said: the theater made the victims easy targets, ever wonder why the mass shooting take place in areas where guns are banned?
Let's not confuse correlation with causation. Theaters, malls, schools, etc. aren't chosen because the victims aren't likely to be able to defend themselves (though that's almost always the case). Rather, they're chosen because large numbers of people have gathered and the assault can have the most impact, which is why these institutions ban weapons.
There were closer theatres to the gunman which IIRC had just as many if not more people but did not have signs preventing concealed carry. Id put my money on him choosing that theatre because it prohibited guns.
You can bet your ass at a threatre with 100+ people, there will be atleast a couple carrying concealed, that is if there isn't a sign preventing it
People that concealed carry generally follow the law. If a sign prohibits it and you carry anyways you will lose your permit and likely face charges.
Edited by luvdemboomers (09/26/15 11:45 AM)
|
Enjoywho
Rags to Bitches



Registered: 07/06/09
Posts: 20,880
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
|
Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: zappaisgod]
#22293122 - 09/26/15 11:47 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Shit I couldn't even sneak in a soda one time. How do you hide a fully automatic gun. 
On the subject I get where the family is coming from. That fee is exorbitant. But its a business its not like he bought the gun off them. Fuckin shitty stuff. Reading that there daughter got hit by 6 bullets is just appalling. I don't believe in hell but I hope there is one for people like this.
-------------------- "I don't give nothin' to nobody, I just pay the cost to do business." - Riley "Young Reezy"-Boondocks "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." "In the days of kings and queens I was a jester." "And then the great lord created bears... too many bears... shoulda really dialed back on the bears." Squidbillies "Can you start speaking words instead of your damn filthy lies!"- Louise "Bobs Burgers"
|
|