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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: Enlil]
    #22388343 - 10/16/15 01:21 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I'm not even going to touch that given the state of one of my step children.  Dismemberment is the least of what I am refraining from doing.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22388737 - 10/16/15 02:48 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
It's a fact.  I have guns.  I have no issue with background checks because I have no problem passing them.  But it would be no problem to avoid one at a gun show.  Like I said, Easy Peasy.




It'd be no problem to avoid one on a street, someones garage or outside a police station.

Grow a spine.



Any shmuck can get a gun at a gun show without a background check.  Perfectly legal.  What you propose is not legal.




You really are clueless when it comes to gun laws.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #22388801 - 10/16/15 03:01 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

No I'm not.  Private sellers go there all the time.


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Offlineendogenous
נפל מגיהינום
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Registered: 10/07/12
Posts: 2,365
Last seen: 24 days, 19 hours
Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #22389724 - 10/16/15 06:11 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
any rifle wound will penetrate soft armor, it's kevlar, nothing special here






I get that the laws don't seem to make much sense and that most people don't understand the capabilities of the different types of bullets. The M855 does seem to have more ability to penetrate through things that would slow down or stop bullets without the steel tip.

In any case, I was being called "stupid" for not being able to "prove" that the M855 was "armor piercing".

Part of the problem is that "armor piercing" has more than one meaning. It can mean the legal definition, or the actual ability to pierce armor plate -- or possibly even just able to not get slowed down by things like glass or trees. And the legal definition doesn't necessarily mean that it can go through armor plate.

But I found it interesting to learn about these things in spite of all the name calling.

One further thing about the law -- it seems that ATF can add bullets to the list of "armor piercing" without having to go through congress.

They haven't seemed to have done this yet with the M855 as far as I have seen, although they've been saying they're going to.


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The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.


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OfflineShroomslip
Architekt
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 11/25/12
Posts: 23,651
Last seen: 42 minutes, 39 seconds
Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: endogenous] * 1
    #22389740 - 10/16/15 06:14 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Wanna avoid the "name calling" then know what the fuck you're even talking about before making a thread against it.


--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way.
I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today.
Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear.
I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear.


You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being
With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline


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Invisibleluvdemboomers
loner with a boner
Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 5,054
Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: endogenous]
    #22389759 - 10/16/15 06:21 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

endogenous said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
any rifle wound will penetrate soft armor, it's kevlar, nothing special here



I get that the laws don't seem to make much sense and that most people don't understand the capabilities of the different types of bullets. The M855 does seem to have more ability to penetrate through things that would slow down or stop bullets without the steel tip.

In any case, I was being called "stupid" for not being able to "prove" that the M855 was "armor piercing".

Part of the problem is that "armor piercing" has more than one meaning. It can mean the legal definition, or the actual ability to pierce armor plate -- or possibly even just able to not get slowed down by things like glass or trees. And the legal definition doesn't necessarily mean that it can go through armor plate.

But I found it interesting to learn about these things in spite of all the name calling.

One further thing about the law -- it seems that ATF can add bullets to the list of "armor piercing" without having to go through congress.

They haven't seemed to have done this yet with the M855 as far as I have seen, although they've been saying they're going to.




For the third time,

What evidence do you have to support your claim that m855 is armor piercing?

What would you consider evidence that it is not armor piercing? I have already provided you with a penetration test that contradicts your claim but for whatever reason, that's not evidence.

And regardless of how it is defined, why should m855 be banned?


Just a little life tip i've picked up over the years: if you make a claim you should be able to prove it or at a minimum provide solid evidence to support it. You have done neither.

Quote:

Shroomslip said:
Wanna avoid the "name calling" then know what the fuck you're even talking about before making a thread against it.




Yup. I believe this thread is one of the only instances I have ever intentionally insulted a shroomerite (only other that comes to mind is AF's stunt in the thread about that guys son dying from SIDS), which says a lot as I have bitten my tongue a lot over my 4k posts an countless idiotic arguments with shroomery liberals.


Edited by luvdemboomers (10/16/15 06:33 PM)


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Invisiblevolcomstoner
I'll have just one more xanax
Male User Gallery


Registered: 07/20/09
Posts: 11,231
Loc: Minnesnowta
Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: luvdemboomers]
    #22390311 - 10/16/15 08:18 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Enjoywho said:
Friends and I had a lot of fun taking it out camping setting up targets, getting drunk and blasting at em.

But we were responsible about it




:lolwut:


--------------------

HAIL SATAN

Vas donc jouer dans le traffic


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OfflineShroomslip
Architekt
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 11/25/12
Posts: 23,651
Last seen: 42 minutes, 39 seconds
Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: volcomstoner] * 1
    #22390401 - 10/16/15 08:35 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Don't question Enjoywho. We'll have another 3 pages of him explaining his post, unrelated anecdotes and finishing it off with "I just come here to share my stories".


--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way.
I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today.
Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear.
I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear.


You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being
With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline


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Offlineendogenous
נפל מגיהינום
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Registered: 10/07/12
Posts: 2,365
Last seen: 24 days, 19 hours
Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: volcomstoner]
    #22391467 - 10/17/15 12:05 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Maybe the core of the "banning" problem is that police don't want to have to wear armor plates inside their vests and bullets that kill animals can penetrate kevlar.

Ultimately it's ending up at banning all hunting bullets.


--------------------
The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: endogenous]
    #22391675 - 10/17/15 01:35 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

endogenous said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
any rifle wound will penetrate soft armor, it's kevlar, nothing special here






I get that the laws don't seem to make much sense and that most people don't understand the capabilities of the different types of bullets. The M855 does seem to have more ability to penetrate through things that would slow down or stop bullets without the steel tip.

In any case, I was being called "stupid" for not being able to "prove" that the
M855 was "armor piercing". it actually works counter to what yoo would expect,
it's a ballistic tip type of ammo. the steel tip causes more deformation,
"mushrooming" it actually slows the bullet down once it's penetrated into the
target. it will also cause faster fragmentation

Quote:

Part of the problem is that "armor piercing" has more than one meaning. It can mean the legal definition, or the actual ability to pierce armor plate -- or possibly even just able to not get slowed down by things like glass or trees. And the legal definition doesn't necessarily mean that it can go through armor plate.




3/4 of the people in the military dont know, it's always been speculated that AP
always means armor piercing and with the bullets being listed on websites as a
'green tip penetrator' it makes it that much more plausible, people selling and
in the know dont always correct people on these myths and after a thusand times
of telling people they arent armor piercing it gets old and you want them to keep
looking like a fool as if he were talking about the orange juice guy


the law on what it considered armor piercing is actually pretty clear but like
with a lot of other things there will alsways be those that will interpret it
their own way


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OfflineThatKidWithTheFace
R.I.P. ZIG R.I.P. Sloth
Male

Registered: 09/30/12
Posts: 11,904
Loc: All Good in Allgood
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #22391684 - 10/17/15 01:39 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Now here comes another 3 pages of him saying that he's somehow still right.


--------------------
Check Out My Beats
SoundCloud

[quote]Sheekle said:
[quote]ThatKidWithTheFace said:
Is this the same aunt that fucks dogs?[/quote]
u bet ur ass it is.[/quote]


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Offlineendogenous
נפל מגיהינום
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Registered: 10/07/12
Posts: 2,365
Last seen: 24 days, 19 hours
Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #22391766 - 10/17/15 02:48 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
the law on what it considered armor piercing is actually pretty clear but like
with a lot of other things there will alsways be those that will interpret it
their own way



Except that they don't have to follow the definition. The following article says they can pick and choose which bullets to call "AP" according to whether they think that it's use is primarily "sporting".

The legal definition doesn't say that it has to be able to go through a certain thickness of armor plate -- (at least the definitions that I've seen.)

"Feb 24, 2015 @ 02:19 PM
Why Is The ATF Moving To Ban Common Rifle Ammo?

Frank Miniter

Contributor

Opinions expressed by Forbes Contributors are their own.

Gun-rights groups are in an uproar over an ammunition ban proposed by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF). The ATF says it wants to ban M855 ball ammunition, a .223 (or 5.56 mm) rifle bullet that has been used by American citizens for decades. The ATF says it wants to ban this popular bullet because it is “armor piercing.”

The law at the basis of this debate is the Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA). As amended, the GCA prohibits the import, manufacture and distribution of “armor piercing ammunition” as defined by a few terms Attorney General Eric Holder’s Department of Justice (DOJ) is attempting to broaden.

The definition for what constitutes “armor piercing” reads: “a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely … from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium.”

Now, to be as nitpicky as the law, the M855 ball ammunition the ATF wants to ban as “armor piercing” doesn’t have a core made of the metals listed in what legally makes a bullet “armor piercing.” The M855 actually has a lead core with a steel tip. Also, the M855 is traditionally a rifle cartridge and the ban only covers handgun ammunition. The DOJ argues this doesn’t stop them because the law stipulates they can ban a bullet that “may be used in a handgun.” And, after all, any cartridge may be used in a handgun.

Still, the definition has another condition. According to law, when ammo is made for “sporting purposes” (hunting, recreation shooting and so on) it is exempt from this ban. According to the DOJ the “GCA exempts ammunition that would otherwise be considered armor piercing if the Attorney General determines that the specific ammunition at issue is ‘primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes.’” So, according to the DOJ, they simply get to decide on this condition.

The “sporting purposes” caveat is an important exemption, as every bullet designed to ethically kill a deer or other big-game animal (whether from a pistol, rifle or shotgun) will also shoot through a bulletproof vest. If all bullets that could potentially shoot through a cop’s bulletproof vest were banned, then hunting—at least ethical hunting with firearms—would cease. Also, shooting competitions and more would effectively be terminated."
-- http://www.forbes.com/sites/frankminiter/2015/02/24/why-is-the-atf-moving-to-ban-common-rifle-ammo/


Edited by endogenous (10/17/15 04:09 AM)


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OfflineThatKidWithTheFace
R.I.P. ZIG R.I.P. Sloth
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Registered: 09/30/12
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Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: endogenous]
    #22391820 - 10/17/15 03:44 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Called it.

Someone owes me a dollar.


--------------------
Check Out My Beats
SoundCloud

[quote]Sheekle said:
[quote]ThatKidWithTheFace said:
Is this the same aunt that fucks dogs?[/quote]
u bet ur ass it is.[/quote]


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Invisiblemyc_check1212
Through Brass
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Registered: 05/18/09
Posts: 4,545
Loc: Rio Lobo
Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: ThatKidWithTheFace]
    #22391960 - 10/17/15 06:02 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

ThatKidWithTheFace said:
Called it.

Someone owes me a dollar.




I can get you a single round of green tip. It's the best I can do. Hold onto it, evidently they're more deadlier.


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Invisibleluvdemboomers
loner with a boner
Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 5,054
Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: endogenous]
    #22392003 - 10/17/15 06:33 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

endogenous said:
Maybe the core of the "banning" problem is that police don't want to have to wear armor plates inside their vests and bullets that kill animals can penetrate kevlar.

Ultimately it's ending up at banning all hunting bullets.




Doesn't matter if it's m855 or not as either ammo will punch through. You still haven't answered my questions.


So now we are banning m855 and all hunting ammo. What ammo are we going to allow?



Edited by luvdemboomers (10/17/15 06:36 AM)


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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: luvdemboomers]
    #22392072 - 10/17/15 07:05 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

lets just ban the triggers then everyone can keep their guns and ammo!:obama:


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
OTD God-King
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Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,508
Loc: Uncanny Valley
Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: endogenous]
    #22392158 - 10/17/15 07:45 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

endogenous said:
Maybe the core of the "banning" problem is that police don't want to have to wear armor plates inside their vests and bullets that kill animals can penetrate kevlar.

Ultimately it's ending up at banning all hunting bullets.



Who cares what police want?  Why should that even be a significant factor? Police are an extreme minority of the population.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

Ask an Attorney

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Invisibleluvdemboomers
loner with a boner
Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 5,054
Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #22392307 - 10/17/15 08:55 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
lets just ban the triggers then everyone can keep their guns and ammo!:obama:




you just hit 20k


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Offlineendogenous
נפל מגיהינום
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Registered: 10/07/12
Posts: 2,365
Last seen: 24 days, 19 hours
Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: Enlil]
    #22392853 - 10/17/15 11:11 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

endogenous said:
Maybe the core of the "banning" problem is that police don't want to have to wear armor plates inside their vests and bullets that kill animals can penetrate kevlar.

Ultimately it's ending up at banning all hunting bullets.



Who cares what police want?  Why should that even be a significant factor? Police are an extreme minority of the population.



Well - we were talking about the definition of "armor piercing".

I would think that most people would consider the legal definition to be the accepted one.

The legal definition seems to be that any bullet that can penetrate the kevlar of a "bullet proof" vest (a vest without an armor plate insert) is "armor piercing". This would make all bullets used in the "ethical" killing of animals armor piercing bullets.

According to the Forbes article, the law says that bullets used primarily for "sport" (hunting and shooting competition) are exempt, but they are still considered to be "armor piercing" if they can penetrate a kevlar vest.

Therefore, the mother of the girl who was murdered at the Aurora theater was legally correct in calling the M855 an "armor piercing"  bullet.


--------------------
The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.


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Offlinelowbrow
Paddy Time!!!!
Male

Registered: 09/12/08
Posts: 9,662
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: endogenous]
    #22392882 - 10/17/15 11:19 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Are you Jewish?


--------------------
Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now.  Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..


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