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Invisibleluvdemboomers
loner with a boner
Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 5,054
Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: endogenous]
    #22384401 - 10/15/15 04:57 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

endogenous said:
Another "straw".

It seems it's still in the works:

" September 22, 2015  Martin Larabaster
A new report has surfaced this week, saying that the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms is contemplating to pass a new regulation that will ban the common AR-15 ammunition. The agency argues that such regulation is necessary in order to ensure the protection of law enforcement officers....

Now, BATFE has released a “Framework for Determining Whether Certain Projectiles are ‘Primarily Intended for Sporting Purposes’ Within the Meaning of 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(17)(c)”, which would eliminate M855’s exemption to the armor piercing ammunition prohibition and make future exemptions nearly impossible,” a report from the NRA- Institute for Legislative Action ....

The group (NRA) also claims that with the ATF’s proposed regulation, the Obama Administration wants to suppress both the acquisition, ownership and usage of AR-15s and other .223 caliber general purpose rifles including the M855 ball ammunition.
"
  http://www.conservativedailyreview.com/atf-trying-to-ban-ar-15-ammo-under-blanket-term-safety-for-law-enforcement/



You realize that article is saying pretty much everything I have said about the m855 steel tip ammo you keep calling armor piercing?

You will probably ignore this because it hurts the claims you pulled out of your ass but I'm gonna post it anyways. It's a real world test of the so called armor piercing ammo compared to the standard xm193 ammo. Both had very similar results as far as penetration.



Here's a video of someone shooting the standard non steel tipped 5.56 ammo at a level 3 plate (body armor). It punches right through it. So it doesn't matter if it's steel tipped or not if you get shot with either wearing level iii armor you are fucked. If you step up to level iv armor neither will penetrate. So as far as real world application it doesn't fucking matter.

video of standard ammo vs level iii:




Also your standard xm193 will be much more damaging to the human body than even true armor piercing. Real armor piercing ammo will punch a .22" hole through you. xm193 will fragment and create a massive wound cavity.


Edited by luvdemboomers (10/15/15 05:09 PM)


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Posts: 65,510
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: endogenous] * 1
    #22384573 - 10/15/15 05:25 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

endogenous said:

I don't know -- and neither do you.

But I am not asking you to admit you're wrong when I'm not sure what the truth is -- whereas you want me to say I'm wrong when you don't know if I am.



You made the claim...I didn't.  I simply asked for evidence.  The evidence you provided actually disproves your claim. 

You pulled a fact out of your ass and defended it like it was truth...now you aren't even able to admit that there's no evidence.

I've made you look stupid enough, though...I'll leave you to your empty rhetoric.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish


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Offlineendogenous
נפל מגיהינום
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Registered: 10/07/12
Posts: 2,365
Last seen: 24 days, 22 hours
Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: Enlil]
    #22385086 - 10/15/15 07:14 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

That's a ridiculous statement.

You made the claim that it wasn't armor piercing - and you didn't show a scintilla of proof - nor did you make the least effort to prove it.

And, in fact, you can't prove it.

You can prove that it isn't legally considered armor piercing at the moment. But to many people, including the ATF and Obama administration, it is armor piercing.

As far as making me look stupid -- to a drunkard, sobriety sounds wrong.


--------------------
The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.


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Invisiblepsi
TOAST N' JAM
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Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,456
Loc: 613 Flag
Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: endogenous]
    #22385127 - 10/15/15 07:23 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

endogenous said:
You made the claim that it wasn't armor piercing




When was that? Got a quote where he made that claim?


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OfflineShroomslip
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Registered: 11/25/12
Posts: 23,651
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: endogenous]
    #22385149 - 10/15/15 07:26 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Uh no.. You've said repeatedly it was armor piercing bullets you've given your "proof" and had it all refuted.

Quote:

endogenous said:
Quote:

Treant said:
Read like half of it and it got too long.

They tried suing a ammunition distributor because their daughter was shot with a bullet bought from them?

What in the fuck?

They should fine them for wasting the state's time on top of the $203,000.



No - they sued the ammunition distributor because "It is abhorrent to us as the parents of a child who has been killed by a person with outwardly obvious mental issues who was able to easily access a one hundred round magazine and 4,000 rounds of armor-piercing bullets online without a valid ID." The distributors also sold the insane shooter "body armor, and tear gas".




Here is your first use (minus the quoted op of course). Long before Enlil ever came in this thread. He asked for proof you failed to provide it. Enlil (and the rest of us) are right, you are wrong (and an idiot).


--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way.
I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today.
Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear.
I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear.


You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being
With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline


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Invisibleluvdemboomers
loner with a boner
Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 5,054
Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: endogenous]
    #22385154 - 10/15/15 07:26 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

endogenous said:
That's a ridiculous statement.

You made the claim that it wasn't armor piercing - and you didn't show a scintilla of proof - nor did you make the least effort to prove it.

And, in fact, you can't prove it.

You can prove that it isn't legally considered armor piercing at the moment. But to many people, including the ATF and Obama administration, it is armor piercing.

As far as making me look stupid -- to a drunkard, sobriety sounds wrong.




Armor piercing ammo is designed to penetrate much further. I just showed you a video of a penetration test of the steel tip and fmj ammo and the results were pretty much equal as far as penetration.

If that is not proof what is? Seriously, what would you consider evidence that it is not armor piercing? And on the contrary, what evidence do you have that it is armor piercing other than people saying it is with no evidence to support their claim?

I seriously get the impression you don't know what armor piercing ammo is and haven't actually thought about its purpose. To you it's just a bad scary round that needs to be banned.


Edited by luvdemboomers (10/15/15 07:38 PM)


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OfflineShroomslip
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I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 11/25/12
Posts: 23,651
Last seen: 2 hours, 47 minutes
Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: luvdemboomers]
    #22385218 - 10/15/15 07:41 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I don't think he knows what a gun is or it's purpose.

I'll quite honestly be surprised if he even understands his penis is used to expel urine, he's probably in some hospice care place getting his diaper changed every couple of hours because he's essentially brain dead.


--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way.
I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today.
Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear.
I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear.


You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being
With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline


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Offlinejoe666
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Posts: 20,081
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: endogenous]
    #22385224 - 10/15/15 07:42 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

The M855 ban never went through and there is no chance of it being passed.
the ATF got it's peepee slapped by congress for even thinking about a ban.


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Invisibleluvdemboomers
loner with a boner
Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 5,054
Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: joe666] * 1
    #22385293 - 10/15/15 07:57 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Endogenous is everything that is wrong with this country.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: endogenous]
    #22385557 - 10/15/15 08:50 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

endogenous said:
So the green tipped penetrator bullets were, at one time,  considered "armor piercing" by the US definition and many people still think that. Whether Holmes' green tipped steel penetrator bullets would, technically qualify as "armor piercing" with the present state of the  government definition or not, I don't know. I am still trying to find out.





I guess that means that there's a guy out there that thinks he's a glass of
orange juice and if he goes to sleep he will spill and die, and that the reason
you trip on acid is because it's dripping down your spinal cord and eating holes
and you trip on mushrooms is because it's a poison and you're slowly dying. if
you ask a cop if he is a cop he has to admit he's a cop. marijuana is deadly and
addictive and causes cancer and brain damage...

just because someone believes something to be true doesnt make it true, just
because they spread the claims and shitloads of people believe it, that doesnt
make it true either. these projectiles do not have a steel core, they have a
steel ballistic tip, they are anti personnel rounds as I have stated and you've
verified for yourself, they arent armor piercing rounds and no matter how much
hoping and praying that you do, they never will be armor piercing to anyone but
the media, the ignorant and the gullible

but hey, let's say he did spend the money, got his hands on some armor piercing
rounds, what fucking difference does it make, do armor piercing rounds kill
someone deader than a regular bullet? was everyone in the audience at the theater
somehow magically protected from non armor piercing rounds but armor piercing
could kill them? what difference does  it make as to what kind of bullets he used?


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Posts: 193,665
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: endogenous]
    #22385578 - 10/15/15 08:53 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

endogenous said:
That's a ridiculous statement.

You made the claim that it wasn't armor piercing - and you didn't show a scintilla of proof - nor did you make the least effort to prove it.

And, in fact, you can't prove it.

You can prove that it isn't legally considered armor piercing at the moment. But to many people, including the ATF and Obama administration, it is armor piercing.

As far as making me look stupid -- to a drunkard, sobriety sounds wrong.





you've already proven it wasnt armor piercing and yet you're still trying to argue that they arent

once more, were armor piercing rounds the only thing that could kill people,
would it kill them deader than any other bullet?


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Invisibleluvdemboomers
loner with a boner
Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 5,054
Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #22385593 - 10/15/15 08:55 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

endogenous said:
So the green tipped penetrator bullets were, at one time,  considered "armor piercing" by the US definition and many people still think that. Whether Holmes' green tipped steel penetrator bullets would, technically qualify as "armor piercing" with the present state of the  government definition or not, I don't know. I am still trying to find out.





I guess that means that there's a guy out there that thinks he's a glass of
orange juice and if he goes to sleep he will spill and die, and that the reason
you trip on acid is because it's dripping down your spinal cord and eating holes
and you trip on mushrooms is because it's a poison and you're slowly dying. if
you ask a cop if he is a cop he has to admit he's a cop. marijuana is deadly and
addictive and causes cancer and brain damage...

just because someone believes something to be true doesnt make it true, just
because they spread the claims and shitloads of people believe it, that doesnt
make it true either. these projectiles do not have a steel core, they have a
steel ballistic tip, they are anti personnel rounds as I have stated and you've
verified for yourself, they arent armor piercing rounds and no matter how much
hoping and praying that you do, they never will be armor piercing to anyone but
the media, the ignorant and the gullible

but hey, let's say he did spend the money, got his hands on some armor piercing
rounds, what fucking difference does it make, do armor piercing rounds kill
someone deader than a regular bullet? was everyone in the audience at the theater
somehow magically protected from non armor piercing rounds but armor piercing
could kill them? what difference does  it make as to what kind of bullets he used?





Hey now, stop it with that logic!


Edited by luvdemboomers (10/15/15 08:56 PM)


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InvisibleSrirachi
Mold Hand
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Registered: 10/18/05
Posts: 11,411
Loc: Fare Thee Well.
Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #22385597 - 10/15/15 08:56 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

AP rounds are less lethal against soft targets than hunting rounds.

He was trying to protect the people he shot by using less-lethal ammunition.


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Invisibleluvdemboomers
loner with a boner
Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 5,054
Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: Srirachi]
    #22385604 - 10/15/15 08:57 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Srirachi said:
AP rounds are less lethal against soft targets than hunting rounds.







Yea I've stated this atleast 4 times. It flies over endo's head. Armor piercing rounds are evil and bad so we should ban anything anyone says is ap.


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OfflineShroomslip
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Registered: 11/25/12
Posts: 23,651
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #22385608 - 10/15/15 08:58 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

He just doesn't get that the only reason this armor piercing business keeps getting thrown around is because it's for the knee jerk reaction and make it sound like 10x more dangerous and vile.

He's never once stopped to consider that the biggest shield any of the targets really had, was about an 1/8 of an inch of plastic and some foam, and that was if they were lucky. Most just had a T shirt or something.

If T shirts could stop bullets, what purpose could bullet proof vests or armor plating possibly provide... You might say then people would just get the armor piercing bullets to get through their T shirt armor, but then everyone knows you can just wear 2 shirts and it cancels it out.

:facepalm: this dude is just hopeless.


--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way.
I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today.
Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear.
I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear.


You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being
With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: Shroomslip]
    #22385726 - 10/15/15 09:17 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomslip said:
He just doesn't get that the only reason this armor piercing business keeps getting thrown around is because it's for the knee jerk reaction and make it sound like 10x more dangerous and vile.

He's never once stopped to consider that the biggest shield any of the targets really had, was about an 1/8 of an inch of plastic and some foam, and that was if they were lucky. Most just had a T shirt or something.

If T shirts could stop bullets, what purpose could bullet proof vests or armor plating possibly provide... You might say then people would just get the armor piercing bullets to get through their T shirt armor, but then everyone knows you can just wear 2 shirts and it cancels it out.

:facepalm: this dude is just hopeless.





just admit it, if you're in an armored vehicle the armor piercing rounds will
only kill you, if you're in a movie theater, they kill you double dead


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: psi]
    #22385734 - 10/15/15 09:19 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

psi said:
Quote:

endogenous said:
You made the claim that it wasn't armor piercing




When was that? Got a quote where he made that claim?



Of course I didn't make that claim.  I asked him for a source.  I said I've seen no evidence that he had armor piercing rounds.  That's about it.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish


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OfflineAchillita
Back to the basics
Male


Registered: 05/26/14
Posts: 4,565
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #22385735 - 10/15/15 09:19 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

They'll kill your ghost too?!? Dang those things must be badddd.


--------------------


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OfflineShroomslip
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I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 11/25/12
Posts: 23,651
Last seen: 2 hours, 47 minutes
Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #22385740 - 10/15/15 09:19 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Unless you were smart and wore 2 shirts.


--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way.
I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today.
Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear.
I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear.


You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being
With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline


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Invisibleluvdemboomers
loner with a boner
Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 5,054
Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: Achillita]
    #22385744 - 10/15/15 09:20 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

in a theatre an armor piercing bullet will go through you, the person behind you, the wall, three people in the next movie over, and the stray cat outside


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