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Offlineendogenous
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: Enlil]
    #22374839 - 10/13/15 06:15 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

endogenous said:
It was a private sale that was how the Aurora shooter was able to buy armor-piercing bullets.



Source?



The growth of the Internet has significantly increased the ability of individuals prohibited from possessing firearms to find sellers willing to transfer firearms to them without background checks.

    As of September 2013, about 67,000 firearms were  listed for sale online from private, unlicensed sellers.5
    29% of ads by private sellers on a popular website for firearm sales were posted by high-volume private sellers who posted five or more ads over an eight-week period.6
    According to an undercover investigation conducted by the City of New York, 62% of private online firearm sellers agreed to sell a firearm to a buyer even after the buyer had told the seller that he or she probably could not pass a background check.7
-- http://smartgunlaws.org/universal-gun-background-checks-policy-summary/

This is from my 1st post in this thread:

We brought our lawsuit because we thought it was outrageous that companies could sell a dangerous man an arsenal without getting any information about him, and without making any effort to see if he was a dangerous killer -- which he was. When the killer had left a voicemail with a shooting range, the range operator knew that he was bad news and shouldn't be given access to guns. But these companies set up their business so people just like this killer can arm themselves at the click of a mouse. We wanted to change that. And we still do.
-- http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22291714/fpart/1/vc/1


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The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.


Edited by endogenous (10/13/15 06:17 PM)


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22374842 - 10/13/15 06:16 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I have a shotgun.  I want to sell it.  Am I required to get an FFL to do so?  No, I am not.



Of course not.  On the other hand, if you buy and sell guns for profit or on a regular basis, you might be required to get an FFL.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: endogenous]
    #22374850 - 10/13/15 06:17 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Nothing in your post substantiates your claim concerning armor piercing rounds.  Do you have a better source?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: Enlil]
    #22374864 - 10/13/15 06:18 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Which is irrelevant to what I posted.


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Invisibleluvdemboomers
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: endogenous]
    #22374877 - 10/13/15 06:20 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

endogenous said:
The growth of the Internet has significantly increased the ability of individuals prohibited from possessing firearms to find sellers willing to transfer firearms to them without background checks.

    As of September 2013, about 67,000 firearms were  listed for sale online from private, unlicensed sellers.5
    29% of ads by private sellers on Armslist.com (a popular website for firearm sales) were posted by high-volume private sellers who posted five or more ads over an eight-week period.6
    According to an undercover investigation conducted by the City of New York, 62% of private online firearm sellers agreed to sell a firearm to a buyer even after the buyer had told the seller that he or she probably could not pass a background check.7
-- http://smartgunlaws.org/universal-gun-background-checks-policy-summary/

This is from my 1st post in this thread:

We brought our lawsuit because we thought it was outrageous that companies could sell a dangerous man an arsenal without getting any information about him, and without making any effort to see if he was a dangerous killer -- which he was. When the killer had left a voicemail with a shooting range, the range operator knew that he was bad news and shouldn't be given access to guns. But these companies set up their business so people just like this killer can arm themselves at the click of a mouse. We wanted to change that. And we still do.
-- http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22291714/fpart/1/vc/1




You apparently don't realize that armslist is the craigslist of guns and is for local sales. Until you can provide a source other than a anti-gun website for that 62% I have a hard time believing it. I have not come across a single online retailer that will ship you a gun anywhere but a licensed FFL dealer which will require a background check.  Also 67k guns is nothing that is 0.02% of the guns in the US.


Edited by luvdemboomers (10/13/15 06:22 PM)


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22374911 - 10/13/15 06:26 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Which is irrelevant to what I posted.



You seem to think that gun shows are treated differently.  They aren't.  There are legal and illegal gun sales at gun shows.  Among these, there are ones with and without background checks.  All of the combinations exist at gun shows, just like they do on the street.  The location of the sale is irrelevant.

As I said, the "gun show loophole" is just a myth.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: Enlil]
    #22374940 - 10/13/15 06:31 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

It is the private sale loophole which often takes place at gun shows.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22374959 - 10/13/15 06:34 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Now you're getting it.


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Offlineendogenous
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: Enlil]
    #22374975 - 10/13/15 06:37 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Nothing in your post substantiates your claim concerning armor piercing rounds.  Do you have a better source?



The suit was over the armor-piercing bullets that Holmes was able to buy over the internet without background checks. I'm not understanding what you are asking about.


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Invisibleluvdemboomers
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: endogenous]
    #22374985 - 10/13/15 06:40 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

endogenous said:
The suit was over the armor-piercing bullets that Holmes was able to buy over the internet without background checks. I'm not understanding what you are asking about.




They weren't armor piercing bullets stop spouting false information.

I love how you just keep saying the same shit and whenever you get proven wrong you just ignore it.


Edited by luvdemboomers (10/13/15 06:41 PM)


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: endogenous]
    #22374994 - 10/13/15 06:42 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

endogenous said:
I'm not understanding what you are asking about.



Clearly. 

I have seen no evidence that Holmes had armor-piercing rounds.


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OfflineShroomslip
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: luvdemboomers]
    #22375029 - 10/13/15 06:48 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemboomers said:
Quote:

endogenous said:
The suit was over the armor-piercing bullets that Holmes was able to buy over the internet without background checks. I'm not understanding what you are asking about.




They weren't armor piercing bullets stop spouting false information.

I love how you just keep saying the same shit and whenever you get proven wrong you just ignore it.



Shit's aggravating. This is why I generally don't waste too much time on any single anti-gun retard. They all consistently ignore facts that damage their argument.


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With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way.
I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today.
Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear.
I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear.


You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being
With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline


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Invisibleluvdemboomers
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: Shroomslip]
    #22375045 - 10/13/15 06:51 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomslip said:
Quote:

luvdemboomers said:
Quote:

endogenous said:
The suit was over the armor-piercing bullets that Holmes was able to buy over the internet without background checks. I'm not understanding what you are asking about.




They weren't armor piercing bullets stop spouting false information.

I love how you just keep saying the same shit and whenever you get proven wrong you just ignore it.



Shit's aggravating. This is why I generally don't waste too much time on any single anti-gun retard. They all consistently ignore facts that damage their argument.





yup

and saying he bought bullets without a background check like OMG how are we allowing this to happeng

Not to mention when it comes to killing people hunting ammo would be much more effective than armor piercing or the standard nato ammo he used


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: Enlil]
    #22375382 - 10/13/15 07:51 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Private sellers do not need an FFL



By definition, this is true.  Nonetheless, many "private sellers" are actually gun dealers who are required to have an FFL.  This is the case in many gun show private sales.  A good portion of these "private sellers" are actually in the business of buying and selling firearms, but operate illegally.



How is it determined which people are legitimate private sellers and which are dealers who require a license? Is there some discrete cutoff with regards to sales volume or what?


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: psi]
    #22375459 - 10/13/15 08:06 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

It's not a hard line.  The question is whether you're "in the business of selling firearms".  In other words, you can sell guns from your private collection.  You can buy guns for your private collection.  You can't buy guns to sell them.  How long do they have to be in your private collection?  Hard to say.  If your collection consists of a lot of unfired guns still in original packaging that you eventually sell to people, you're probably required to have one.


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: Enlil]
    #22375506 - 10/13/15 08:17 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Ok, so the determination can be somewhat subjective then? Interesting, thanks.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: psi]
    #22375548 - 10/13/15 08:23 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I wouldn't say it's subjective.  I'd say it's an issue of fact for a jury to decide.


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OfflineShroomslip
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: psi]
    #22375557 - 10/13/15 08:25 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I imagine it's one of those things where it really only matters if a problem develops and they can point to you and go "he fucked up".

Personally, I have no objections to requiring all gun sales to be done with a background check and registration. It's like 20 or 30 dollars to have it done at a FFL (last I heard) when you buy a gun online, not really a huge extra cost when you're buying a (usually) used weapon at a considerably lower price than you would be paying for it brand new but are already spending hundreds of dollars on it.


--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way.
I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today.
Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear.
I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear.


You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being
With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline


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Invisiblerackem
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: Enlil]
    #22375558 - 10/13/15 08:25 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

i dont want a bunch of lawyers determining the fate of private sell.. whats wrong with people doing their fucking jobs with the info they are given now?


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Invisibleluvdemboomers
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: rackem] * 1
    #22375626 - 10/13/15 08:38 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Veering a little off topic but as far as regulation you give them an inch they're gonna take a mile. Let's just limit magazine size to 10, you don't need more than that for hunting or self defense. Well why not make it 5, chances are you won't have to shoot more than 5 people. Well even that is unrealistic let's make it 3, there is no reason you should need more than three bullets it only takes two tops for a deer, etc, etc till they're saying muzzle loaders only.

Then background checks. Where does that stop? People are already getting denied concealed carry permits for getting caught with a gram of pot in 1970. It's only a matter of time before they go that deep for the standard FFL background check. What about DUI's... no need for drunks to have guns, even if it was 20 years ago. Ever been charged with domestic violence? No gun for you doesn't matter if you weren't convicted a good attorney can get you off. Been o rehab? We don't need drug addicts with guns.

They're gonna keep chipping away at our rights little by little till we have none left.


Edited by luvdemboomers (10/13/15 08:39 PM)


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