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Offlineendogenous
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: Shroomslip]
    #22374390 - 10/13/15 04:56 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

"In its 1997 decision in the case, the Supreme Court ruled that the provision of the Brady Act that compelled state and local law enforcement officials to perform the background checks was unconstitutional on 10th amendment grounds. " -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brady_Handgun_Violence_Prevention_Act#Since_1998


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The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: endogenous]
    #22374397 - 10/13/15 04:56 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

endogenous said:
It appears I missed, or didn't remember, that the Brady Bill was extended to include long guns.




Or more likely, didn't care. It didn't back up your 'point'.


Quote:

However, it still doesn't cover private sales.

"Background checks are not required under Federal law for firearm transfers between private parties." -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Instant_Criminal_Background_Check_System




No shit? So precisely what some of us have been telling you.

Good for you.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22374403 - 10/13/15 04:58 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
It's a fact.  I have guns.  I have no issue with background checks because I have no problem passing them.  But it would be no problem to avoid one at a gun show.  Like I said, Easy Peasy.




It'd be no problem to avoid one on a street, someones garage or outside a police station.

Grow a spine.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemboomers
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Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 5,054
Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #22374541 - 10/13/15 05:23 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Endogenous has to be a troll.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #22374558 - 10/13/15 05:26 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
It's a fact.  I have guns.  I have no issue with background checks because I have no problem passing them.  But it would be no problem to avoid one at a gun show.  Like I said, Easy Peasy.




It'd be no problem to avoid one on a street, someones garage or outside a police station.

Grow a spine.



Any shmuck can get a gun at a gun show without a background check.  Perfectly legal.  What you propose is not legal.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22374567 - 10/13/15 05:29 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Neither of those are necessarily true.  Private sellers at gun shows are often breaking the law by not having an FFL.  Similarly, a private seller on the street might very well be perfectly within the law to sell a gun to a stranger.


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Invisiblerackem
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22374572 - 10/13/15 05:29 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

i live in a state where at gun shows still require a back ground check. unless its private sale so really if you buy a gun at a show in your state you still technically have to put the gun in your name. ie: walk to the police station?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: Enlil]
    #22374628 - 10/13/15 05:39 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Neither of those are necessarily true.  Private sellers at gun shows are often breaking the law by not having an FFL.  Similarly, a private seller on the street might very well be perfectly within the law to sell a gun to a stranger.




What does that have to do with requiring background checks?


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OfflineArctic W. Fox
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: endogenous]
    #22374670 - 10/13/15 05:45 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

endogenous said:
"In its 1997 decision in the case, the Supreme Court ruled that the provision of the Brady Act that compelled state and local law enforcement officials to perform the background checks was unconstitutional on 10th amendment grounds. "




Quote:

However, the overall Brady statute was upheld and state and local law enforcement officials remained free to conduct background checks if they so chose.




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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22374704 - 10/13/15 05:51 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Neither of those are necessarily true.  Private sellers at gun shows are often breaking the law by not having an FFL.  Similarly, a private seller on the street might very well be perfectly within the law to sell a gun to a stranger.




What does that have to do with requiring background checks?



Everything.  If a seller has an FFL, a background check is required.  Some "private sellers" avoid this by not getting an FFL, even though they're required to do so.  As a result, many sales of firearms at gun shows without a background check are still illegal. 

On the other hand, many sales of firearms on the street without a background check are legal.

The whole point is that the "gun show loophole" is largely a myth.  Whether it happens at a gun show or not is irrelevant to the analysis...at least under federal law.


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Offlineendogenous
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #22374741 - 10/13/15 05:56 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

endogenous said:
It appears I missed, or didn't remember, that the Brady Bill was extended to include long guns.




Or more likely, didn't care. It didn't back up your 'point'.


Quote:

However, it still doesn't cover private sales.

"Background checks are not required under Federal law for firearm transfers between private parties." -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Instant_Criminal_Background_Check_System




No shit? So precisely what some of us have been telling you.

Good for you.



My recollection is that I was the only one saying that background checks are not required for private sales -- until the last few posts where zappa was also saying it.

It was a private sale that was how the Aurora shooter was able to buy armor-piercing bullets. I was talking about private sales right from the start.

So you're incorrect in your statement.


--------------------
The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: endogenous]
    #22374766 - 10/13/15 06:00 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

endogenous said:
It was a private sale that was how the Aurora shooter was able to buy armor-piercing bullets.



Source?


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Offlineendogenous
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: Enlil]
    #22374782 - 10/13/15 06:04 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Everything.  If a seller has an FFL, a background check is required.  Some "private sellers" avoid this by not getting an FFL, even though they're required to do so.  As a result, many sales of firearms at gun shows without a background check are still illegal. 

On the other hand, many sales of firearms on the street without a background check are legal.

The whole point is that the "gun show loophole" is largely a myth.  Whether it happens at a gun show or not is irrelevant to the analysis...at least under federal law.



Could you explain what laws make it legal to privately sell a gun on the street without a background check, but illegal to do so at a gun show?

You state that "many sales of firearms at gun shows without a background check are still illegal." This implies that some aren't illegal. Could you explain which ones aren't illegal?


--------------------
The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.


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Invisiblerackem
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: endogenous]
    #22374793 - 10/13/15 06:06 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

the ones that arent illegal (in my state anyways) are the dudes without the ffl.

if you have an ffl (in my state) you have to give the background checks.

private sellers, dont have to admin the check.


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Offlinejoe666
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22374807 - 10/13/15 06:09 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

http://dailycaller.com/2013/02/11/where-criminals-get-their-guns/

0.7% of criminals purchased a gun at a gun show


--------------------
"A politician is like a baby's diaper, it should be changed often and for the same reason"-Coy Turner Sr.

"what is a weed, a plant whose virtues have not yet been discovered"--Ralph Waldo Emerson

"I'm sippin Hennessy, riding on my muthafucking enemies" -Meek Mill.



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Invisibleluvdemboomers
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Registered: 01/11/13
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: endogenous]
    #22374820 - 10/13/15 06:12 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

endogenous said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

endogenous said:
It appears I missed, or didn't remember, that the Brady Bill was extended to include long guns.




Or more likely, didn't care. It didn't back up your 'point'.


Quote:

However, it still doesn't cover private sales.

"Background checks are not required under Federal law for firearm transfers between private parties." -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Instant_Criminal_Background_Check_System




No shit? So precisely what some of us have been telling you.

Good for you.



My recollection is that I was the only one saying that background checks are not required for private sales -- until the last few posts where zappa was also saying it.

It was a private sale that was how the Aurora shooter was able to buy armor-piercing bullets. I was talking about private sales right from the start.

So you're incorrect in your statement.




He didn't use armor piercing bullets.  Also, just about every centerfire rifle round will pierce your standard bullet proof vest. Bullet proof vests are really only good for handgun rounds unless you want to stick a bunch of steel plates in it. And if you did that the ammo the aurora shooter used would not penetrate.

So you're incorrect in your statement.


Edited by luvdemboomers (10/13/15 06:14 PM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: Enlil]
    #22374822 - 10/13/15 06:12 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Neither of those are necessarily true.  Private sellers at gun shows are often breaking the law by not having an FFL.  Similarly, a private seller on the street might very well be perfectly within the law to sell a gun to a stranger.




What does that have to do with requiring background checks?



Everything.  If a seller has an FFL, a background check is required.  Some "private sellers" avoid this by not getting an FFL, even though they're required to do so.  As a result, many sales of firearms at gun shows without a background check are still illegal. 

On the other hand, many sales of firearms on the street without a background check are legal.

The whole point is that the "gun show loophole" is largely a myth.  Whether it happens at a gun show or not is irrelevant to the analysis...at least under federal law.




There is nothing mythical about it.  Private sellers do not need an FFL and they do not need to perform background checks.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: endogenous]
    #22374825 - 10/13/15 06:13 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

endogenous said:

Could you explain what laws make it legal to privately sell a gun on the street without a background check, but illegal to do so at a gun show?


There is no such law.  That's why I said that the gun show is irrelevant
Quote:



You state that "many sales of firearms at gun shows without a background check are still illegal." This implies that some aren't illegal. Could you explain which ones aren't illegal?


Any sale of a firearm by a person who is required to have an FFL but doesn't have one is illegal, whether on the street or in a gun show.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22374838 - 10/13/15 06:14 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Private sellers do not need an FFL



By definition, this is true.  Nonetheless, many "private sellers" are actually gun dealers who are required to have an FFL.  This is the case in many gun show private sales.  A good portion of these "private sellers" are actually in the business of buying and selling firearms, but operate illegally.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer [Re: Enlil]
    #22374837 - 10/13/15 06:14 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I have a shotgun.  I want to sell it.  Am I required to get an FFL to do so?  No, I am not.


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