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Offlinefuzzysig
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Registered: 10/21/11
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overpopulation true or false?
    #22291552 - 09/26/15 01:46 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

what you all think id like to know what are the arguments for and against.

my view is. we are not there yet but dangerously close.

there are scientists arguing that we have no problem with resources that theres no shortage. based on very old research and statistics that was done 50-80 years ago.

than theres also analogy to a house.
you got a house where 5 people live. they live off the land provided
but the argument of critics is that at maximum capacity of 20 people they can still live in that house and live off the land be self sufficient.

problem with that. can you call it living when the 5 people live comfortably and 20 people barely sirvive.

so In my opinion. theres either a reason behind those critics statements about the maximum capacity that earth can handle or they don't understand it fully or simply don't care about it.


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OfflineArctic W. Fox
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Re: overpopulation true or false? [Re: fuzzysig]
    #22291582 - 09/26/15 01:57 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Way too many. Too crowded.

Plenty of mucous, not enough oxygen.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: overpopulation true or false? [Re: Arctic W. Fox]
    #22291603 - 09/26/15 02:06 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

False.  there are ways to reduce scarcity and reduce the negative impact of human population growth.  We can increase food reliability for most of the world and reduce atmospheric carbon at the same time, as just one example.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22114652


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: overpopulation true or false? [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #22291967 - 09/26/15 06:31 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

True but don't worry, the elite are working on it.  The goal is 500 million, so that means a lot of you useless eaters have got to go.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: overpopulation true or false? [Re: fuzzysig] * 2
    #22292368 - 09/26/15 09:10 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

This is a non sequitir argument.  Just because we can take care of everybody in principle, does not mean that it's not too many.  And we're not even coming close to taking care of everyone.  There are 2.5 billion people in this world below the poverty line.  What is this nonsense about taking care of everyone?!?!

Seven billion is way too many.  Two billion is way too many.  But, shit, what is one going to do about it.  Here they are.  We'd better figure out how to take care of everyone.

But the planet is bursting.  Habitats for species other than humans are all but gone.  I can't see how anyone could possibly argue that the planet is not overpopulated.  It is an irresponsible and indefensible position.


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Invisibleonce in a lifetime
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Re: overpopulation true or false? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22292876 - 09/26/15 10:57 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Good post, sir.

Here is my 2 cents.


A few short years ago I realized that there were 50,000 more people in the world, each day. . . That number was staggering to me. . . not a year - a day.


Two or two and a half years ago, I learned that the rate had increased to 200,000 more people in the world each day - this is overall growth - after births & deaths etc.


What was surprising to me was how recently it had only been 50,000. . . Anyway - no, there is no sensible stance - as DQ expressed - to say we are not overpopulated.


We've cut down approximately 50% of the natural forests globally, and we are losing between 25-50 species a day.


Now, none of what I'm saying is meant to cause sadness - Sadness was never of any use to anybody, to quote the poet.  Just to raise awareness ----


And raising awareness also is worlds & worlds away from trying to control anyone. . . My only goal is really just to share friendship & peace with people - because those are the bonds which make a lasting peace possible. . .


And it's not really - not really a question of how big the problem is - I mean, it's a macrocosm or a microcosm - peace work is still peace work - and so forth -



Peace still creates peace - etc. always the same.



Here is a good site about it:


http://www.worldpopulationbalance.org/


I appreciated especially because they had come to several conclusions that my family had as well; and so forth.


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OfflineCuriousMind

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Re: overpopulation true or false? [Re: once in a lifetime]
    #22293912 - 09/26/15 02:27 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

And yet people still worry about countries which aren't "reproducing enough". For fuck's sake, at some point we need to stop before its all gone.

We humans have a disturbing ability to ignore or put aside really serious shit and just continue being selfish. I won't pretend to be some saint or anything, but at the very least I recognize and acknowledge that we have a serious problem on our hands and bringing more and more kids into the world isn't the solution.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: overpopulation true or false? [Re: CuriousMind]
    #22297112 - 09/27/15 06:02 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

CuriousMind said:
And yet people still worry about countries which aren't "reproducing enough". For fuck's sake, at some point we need to stop before its all gone.

We humans have a disturbing ability to ignore or put aside really serious shit and just continue being selfish. I won't pretend to be some saint or anything, but at the very least I recognize and acknowledge that we have a serious problem on our hands and bringing more and more kids into the world isn't the solution.




Who will take care of the millenials when there's nobody left capable of working after being educated in the Common Core program?  What's truly serious is we have a bunch of brainwashed techies who have their head stuck not only up their collective asses but you can't get them off their cell phones.  You can't!  They are fucking cell phone junkies, texting as they drive, and one almost killed me the other day. 

Fuck you cell phone junkies you are dangerous and I hope some of you get run over while texting and walking across the road.  That would help with not only with overpopulation, but clear out some really stupid people from the equation.


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OfflineArctic W. Fox
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Re: overpopulation true or false? [Re: LunarEclipse] * 1
    #22297325 - 09/27/15 08:19 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

LunarEclipse said:
Who will take care of the millenials when there's nobody left capable of working after being educated in the Common Core program?  What's truly serious is we have a bunch of brainwashed techies who have their head stuck not only up their collective asses but you can't get them off their cell phones.  You can't!  They are fucking cell phone junkies, texting as they drive, and one almost killed me the other day. 

Fuck you cell phone junkies you are dangerous and I hope some of you get run over while texting and walking across the road.  That would help with not only with overpopulation, but clear out some really stupid people from the equation.




"Sent via carrier pigeon."


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: overpopulation true or false? [Re: fuzzysig] * 1
    #22301071 - 09/28/15 12:17 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I owned a poster copy of John Pitre's 1973 piece entitled 'Overpopulation.' I wish it was a larger image, but your post reminded me of the surrealism and impossibility of so many humans in the absence of sustaining environment with foodstuffs.




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OfflineGiftofdeprivation
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Re: overpopulation true or false? [Re: ballsalsa]
    #22301207 - 09/28/15 01:47 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
False.  there are ways to reduce scarcity and reduce the negative impact of human population growth.  We can increase food reliability for most of the world and reduce atmospheric carbon at the same time, as just one example.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22114652



This, but because no one is adopting those strategies, TRUE. We've adopted a rate of growth beyond our ability to mitigate our impact. By that definition, we are overpopulating earth. Species are dying, forests thinning, and climate is becoming increasingly unsustainable.


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OfflineRennHuhn
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Registered: 03/12/15
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Re: overpopulation true or false? [Re: fuzzysig]
    #22302579 - 09/28/15 12:21 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

We dont have over population problem we have a distribution problem.
With rising quality of live come lower birth rates. The solutions are their they just need to be implemented.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: overpopulation true or false? [Re: RennHuhn]
    #22302629 - 09/28/15 12:37 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Tilford cites a litany of sobering statistics showing just how profligate Americans have been in using and abusing natural resources. For example, between 1900 and 1989 U.S. population tripled while its use of raw materials grew by a factor of 17.  “With less than 5 percent of world population, the U.S. uses one-third of the world’s paper, a quarter of the world’s oil, 23 percent of the coal, 27 percent of the aluminum, and 19 percent of the copper,” he reports. “Our per capita use of energy, metals, minerals, forest products, fish, grains, meat, and even fresh water dwarfs that of people living in the developing world.”

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/american-consumption-habits/





What this means is that no, we cannot raise the standard of living for everybody.  If we raised all 7.5 billion of us to the US standard of living and consumption rates, we would need four more Earths just to harvest the resources with present technology.
http://www.popsci.com/environment/article/2012-10/daily-infographic-if-everyone-lived-american-how-many-earths-would-we-need

IT'S TOO MANY!!!


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: overpopulation true or false? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22302791 - 09/28/15 01:08 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2015/04/evaluating-nasas-futuristic-em-drive/
Quote:

Moving out from LEO, Mr. March, from NASA EagleWorks, noted that a spacecraft equipped with EM drive technology could surpass the performance expectations of the WarpStar-I concept vehicle.

If such a similar vehicle were equipped with an EM Drive, it could enable travel from the surface of Earth to the surface of the moon within four hours.




aside from food constraints imposed by maximum total surface area, many resource needs may functionally disappear in the near future with the advent of the EM Drive.


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Offlinefuzzysig
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Registered: 10/21/11
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Re: overpopulation true or false? [Re: ballsalsa]
    #22304465 - 09/28/15 06:41 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I think we can rule out space travel to distant earth like planets.

or it would be a multi generation span one way trip...

wich would mean the rest would still be here left with a fucked up wasted planet.

the fact that we are living large now is definitely not free. its on our tab and some time in the future someone gonna have to cover that tab.which would most likely be our kids.

we spend so much time trying to raise our kids while completely fucking up our planet leaving it to them.

I belive we are way over our capacity after reading this experiment and how rats reacted to overpopulation.
there was also experiment with squirrels. and probably other species. from whati can remember they all reacted inexact same way when population exceeded given space. while resources were abundant.
it seems that personal space is more important than resources..


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_sink


http://www.returnofkings.com/36915/what-humans-can-learn-from-the-mice-utopia-experiment


Edited by fuzzysig (09/28/15 06:43 PM)


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: overpopulation true or false? [Re: fuzzysig]
    #22304635 - 09/28/15 07:13 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

theres lots of space left. just not inside of cities.  As for the EMDrive, i was referring more to mining asteroids than colonizing distant worlds


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: overpopulation true or false? [Re: Giftofdeprivation]
    #22304677 - 09/28/15 07:23 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Giftofdeprivation said:
Quote:

ballsalsa said:
False.  there are ways to reduce scarcity and reduce the negative impact of human population growth.  We can increase food reliability for most of the world and reduce atmospheric carbon at the same time, as just one example.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22114652



This, but because no one is adopting those strategies, TRUE. We've adopted a rate of growth beyond our ability to mitigate our impact. By that definition, we are overpopulating earth. Species are dying, forests thinning, and climate is becoming increasingly unsustainable.




Does it help that there are still four nuclear reactors in full meltdown along with the recently release massive quantity of stored radioactive water at Fukushima?  Of course it will help with overpopulation. 

When was climate ever "sustainable".  The PNW used to be tropical, millions of years before humans even were around.  Shall we blame overpopulation and CO2 from too many humans for that very warm tropical climate with no humans around? 

Of course we can, and we just did.  Enjoy your cap and trade taxes and gasoline prices and electrical prices and natural gas prices going through the roof in the coming years.  Of course it will do zero for population control, but Goldman Sachs will get even richer selling "carbon credits" as the rest of us continue to get poorer paying for being able to drive to work or the grocery store.

Good thinking climate "scientists" already proven to be complete liars but nobody seems to care.  It's an Agenda, truth matters little when money and control is involved.


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OfflineArctic W. Fox
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Re: overpopulation true or false? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #22304705 - 09/28/15 07:29 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

LunarEclipse said:
Does it help that there are still four nuclear reactors in full meltdown along with the recently release massive quantity of stored radioactive water at Fukushima?  Of course it will help with overpopulation. 

When was climate ever "sustainable".  The PNW used to be tropical, millions of years before humans even were around.  Shall we blame overpopulation and CO2 from too many humans for that very warm tropical climate with no humans around? 

Of course we can, and we just did.  Enjoy your cap and trade taxes and gasoline prices and electrical prices and natural gas prices going through the roof in the coming years.  Of course it will do zero for population control, but Goldman Sachs will get even richer selling "carbon credits" as the rest of us continue to get poorer paying for being able to drive to work or the grocery store.

Good thinking climate "scientists" already proven to be complete liars but nobody seems to care.  It's an Agenda, truth matters little when money and control is involved.




Blah, blah, blah. Do some research.


Edited by Arctic W. Fox (09/28/15 07:29 PM)


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: overpopulation true or false? [Re: Arctic W. Fox]
    #22304733 - 09/28/15 07:35 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Arctic W. Fox said:
Quote:

LunarEclipse said:
Does it help that there are still four nuclear reactors in full meltdown along with the recently release massive quantity of stored radioactive water at Fukushima?  Of course it will help with overpopulation. 

When was climate ever "sustainable".  The PNW used to be tropical, millions of years before humans even were around.  Shall we blame overpopulation and CO2 from too many humans for that very warm tropical climate with no humans around? 

Of course we can, and we just did.  Enjoy your cap and trade taxes and gasoline prices and electrical prices and natural gas prices going through the roof in the coming years.  Of course it will do zero for population control, but Goldman Sachs will get even richer selling "carbon credits" as the rest of us continue to get poorer paying for being able to drive to work or the grocery store.

Good thinking climate "scientists" already proven to be complete liars but nobody seems to care.  It's an Agenda, truth matters little when money and control is involved.




Blah, blah, blah. Do some research.




Do you have a point other than the top of your dunce cap?


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OfflineArctic W. Fox
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Re: overpopulation true or false? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #22304759 - 09/28/15 07:41 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

LunarEclipse said:
Do you have a point other than the top of your dunce cap?




Yep, right here:

Quote:

Arctic W. Fox said:
Do some research.




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