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OfflinePositronius
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egos, automatons, and deconstructed positrons.
    #2228959 - 01/08/04 06:48 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

People with strong egos are roaming the streets with jelled hair and designer jackets..AS WE SPEAK.

my question is, who is more "real" a human with a strong, unwielding self-concept, or someone who is self-aware?

the difference being, the former truly believes in the existance of their ego as a completely unartifical "thing", and the latter understands that their ego/self is just a collection of memories, experience, programming, genetics and decision.

the ego-mind is a concrete block, fully connected and confident in its existance, while the self-reflexive mind is a bunch of floating globules loosely tied together with a will to survive.


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: egos, automatons, and deconstructed positrons. [Re: Positronius]
    #2228977 - 01/08/04 06:54 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Depends on how you define "Real"...


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: egos, automatons, and deconstructed positrons. [Re: Positronius]
    #2228990 - 01/08/04 06:57 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

my question is, who is more "real" a human with a strong, unwielding self-concept, or someone who is self-aware?

Except for the unwielding part, I don't see these attributes as mutually-exclusive.
Furthermore, they're both "real"... one just has a better grasp on their own mind.

Of the two, I prefer the one not stuck in the insecurity/self-deception cycle... but I suppose they're easy to market to.


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OfflinePositronius
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Re: egos, automatons, and deconstructed positrons. [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2228991 - 01/08/04 06:58 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

yeah, of course.

By real I mean, more connected with reality. It seems like egotistical people truly live their lives, no matter how deluded they are. They dont just believe in their ego, they ARE their ego.

as opposed to the buddhist monk who sits around all day with his eyes closed. Egotistical people get-things-done, they have more of an impact on the world than non-egoists. Not to say that it is positive impact, but impact nonetheless.


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: egos, automatons, and deconstructed positrons. [Re: Positronius]
    #2229048 - 01/08/04 07:18 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

By real I mean, more connected with reality.
"Reality" is still quite subjective...most aspects of reality, is an opinion. There is no ONE version of reality governing the entire world.
"The reality of reality is that there is no true arbitrary reality, only different versions of reality formed by masses' of the regional psychological psyche derived from many generations going back thousands of millenia into the past all leading to the circumstances and outcomes as it prevails today....Reality as we know it-- but the fact remains, there IS no one absolute re ality. Every reality is relative to the environment in which it is formed by the inhabitants within that environment. The only TRUE ultimate and absolute reality, is death, and birth--in the most strictest and literal sense"--Author Unkown

It seems like egotistical people truly live their lives, no matter how deluded they are. They dont just believe in their ego, they ARE their ego.
That goes to show you that one person's reality can be delusional to another person....reality to me, is normal...but thats in MY mind...to other people, it may be a totally skewed version of reality, just like how you view those "egotistical people" truly living their lives, no matter how deluded they are. In thier eyes...they may think that YOU'RE the one that is actually living in a life of delusion.


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OfflinePositronius
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Re: egos, automatons, and deconstructed positrons. [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2229066 - 01/08/04 07:24 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah, reality is relative, im sure we all agree on that.

okay, so you have the egoist and the non-egoist. They both live a bit away from a forest, the non-egoist leaves the forest alone and meditates all day in his hut.

the egoist dislikes his hut, so he goes into the forest and cuts down some trees. To the trees, only the egoist exists because they percieve him and not the non-egoist.

therefor an egoist has more of an impact on reality and is more real.


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Offlinesleepysmoker
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Re: egos, automatons, and deconstructed positrons. [Re: Positronius]
    #2229084 - 01/08/04 07:29 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

are you saying that the buddhist monk doesnt truely live his life?


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OfflinePositronius
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Re: egos, automatons, and deconstructed positrons. [Re: sleepysmoker]
    #2229095 - 01/08/04 07:32 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

nope, never said anything about living life, I was commenting on the level of individual reality.

okay.

you have an old VW bug, junked and torn apart into a thousand peices strewn about on a big stretch of grass. Then you have a brand new mercedes 5 series. Which car is more of a car?


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Offlinesleepysmoker
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Re: egos, automatons, and deconstructed positrons. [Re: sleepysmoker]
    #2229109 - 01/08/04 07:35 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

opps, i didnt read those last two posts.

weird


peace


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: egos, automatons, and deconstructed positrons. [Re: Positronius]
    #2229127 - 01/08/04 07:40 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

By meditating and gaining inner peace and harmony with his immediate and individual surroundings and environment..the non-egoist is able to live happilly with nature, and ALLOW the trees to survive; thereby creating happiness within himself AND his natural surroundings, including all plants, insects and animals that WOULD have been affected by cutting down the trees...So, you could just as much argue that he created an impact on "reality" by living in HARMONY with it.


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Offlinesleepysmoker
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Re: egos, automatons, and deconstructed positrons. [Re: sleepysmoker]
    #2229132 - 01/08/04 07:41 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

how do you know there isnt one absolute reality SkorpivoMusterion. in a way you could say my reality is the same as yours, dont ya think?


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OfflinePositronius
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Re: egos, automatons, and deconstructed positrons. [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2229136 - 01/08/04 07:43 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

scorp: "So, you could just as much argue that he created an impact on "reality" by living in HARMONY with it"

allright allright, good point...BUT the forest still never percieved the monk and therefor is unaware of his existance.


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Offlinedaba
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Re: egos, automatons, and deconstructed positrons. [Re: Positronius]
    #2229243 - 01/08/04 08:32 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Positronius: Do you think everyone who gels their hair and wears designer clothes are insecure and deluded?

Perchance they gel their hair becuase they like to gel their hair, not because they see a man in a magazine with gelled hair and desire to be more like him. Or perhaps the designer jacket is a treat to the eye.

I used to gel my hair. Then it became too much of a hassle, so it's quite shaggy now, at least for an Asian :wink:.


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OfflinePositronius
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Re: egos, automatons, and deconstructed positrons. [Re: daba]
    #2229251 - 01/08/04 08:35 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

daba: Do you think everyone who gels their hair and wears designer clothes are insecure and deluded

of course not, I was just supplying a real-world visual/stereotype with my question. But yes, I can guarantee that if you gel your hair you are more likely to be an egoist than someone who does not.


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: egos, automatons, and deconstructed positrons. [Re: Positronius]
    #2229299 - 01/08/04 08:48 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

BUT the forest still never percieved the monk and therefor is unaware of his existance.

So it only takes doing something harmful and damaging to the forest for it to become AWARE of his existence, such as cutting it's trees down and disrupting the harmony of the ecosystem?


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Offlinedaba
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Re: egos, automatons, and deconstructed positrons. [Re: Positronius]
    #2232360 - 01/10/04 12:07 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Positronius said:
But yes, I can guarantee that if you gel your hair you are more likely to be an egoist than someone who does not.




I agree.


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OfflinePHARMAKOS
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Re: egos, automatons, and deconstructed positrons. [Re: daba]
    #2232444 - 01/10/04 01:09 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

"my question is, who is more "real" a human with a strong, unwielding self-concept, or someone who is self-aware?" well there both equally real. maybe im missing something here but i dont know how else to answer the question. there both real

"yes yes good point but the forest never percieved the monk and is therefore unaware of its existance"
so? are you suggesting that in order to be 'real' we must be percieved by others? does a man who lives alone in an underground hole really exist?
if a tree falls alone in the forest does it make a sound?


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OfflineSpecialEd
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Re: egos, automatons, and deconstructed positrons. [Re: Positronius]
    #2232657 - 01/10/04 03:39 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Both examples of people still die. That makes them equal. Ego or not, death comes swiftly. One has a larger ego...so what?


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OfflinePositronius
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Re: egos, automatons, and deconstructed positrons. [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2234017 - 01/11/04 12:48 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

the sloth survives because it moves too slow to be percieved by any predators.

how does that figure into all of this?


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