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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: DinkinFlicka84]
#22306075 - 09/29/15 12:27 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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i was just saying your jar appears to have fully colonized without obvious signs of contams which makes me think it's not bacteria but mold had it been just bacteria you could spawn them ....moldy spawn makes moldy tubs though
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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DinkinFlicka84
Dude



Registered: 01/19/14
Posts: 546
Last seen: 5 years, 12 days
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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: cronicr]
#22306531 - 09/29/15 04:27 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said: i was just saying your jar appears to have fully colonized without obvious signs of contams which makes me think it's not bacteria but mold had it been just bacteria you could spawn them ....moldy spawn makes moldy tubs though
How can I know that it's just bacteria? The only time I've ever seen the little spots on the WBS that hasn't colonized (millimeter in diameter), the jars have caused mold within or before the first flush.
Does bacteria cause a smell within the jars? What are tell tale signs of common bacteria in WBS jars?
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blackdust


Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 8,327
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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: blackdust]
#22307535 - 09/29/15 10:55 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
blackdust said:

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PirateSwazey


Registered: 12/12/12
Posts: 2,993
Loc: Here, Now
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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: blackdust]
#22307624 - 09/29/15 11:21 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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For what it's worth... here's my 2 cents for you guys struggling with grain prep...
Call up your local whole foods and ask to be transferred to their grocery department. Tell the grocery person you want a bulk order of 50lb organic rye berries (if you say grain it will confuse them). The grain will cost about $50-65 a bag, and for good reason. It is extremely clean -- I have never even rinsed this grain even when soaking 200lbs at one time. If you were to try that with WBS it would make a giant clump in whatever container you put it in. I have been using RR's rye prep with this grain for years now and although it is more expensive I don't mind because it is simply the easiest grain to prep. Even RR used organic rye berries, which is who I got the pro tip from.
If the extra money doesn't make sense look at it like this... a 50# bag costs $60... It also is enough grain to make enough spawn for around 15 tubs. 15 tubs should give you at least 4-5lbs of dry fruties... You finish the equation.
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DinkinFlicka84 said:
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cronicr said: i was just saying your jar appears to have fully colonized without obvious signs of contams which makes me think it's not bacteria but mold had it been just bacteria you could spawn them ....moldy spawn makes moldy tubs though
How can I know that it's just bacteria? The only time I've ever seen the little spots on the WBS that hasn't colonized (millimeter in diameter), the jars have caused mold within or before the first flush.
Does bacteria cause a smell within the jars? What are tell tale signs of common bacteria in WBS jars?
Bacteria smells sour... It usually will have a wet spot on the grain or look slimy. From what I've read it sounds like you are not getting clean cultures on your agar plates that you're inoculating with (there is mold intertwined with your cube myc). Maybe try posting some pics of what they look like, and for good measure start a new plate from MS and make a few quick transfers as soon as there is enough growth to make one.
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taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



Registered: 10/16/14
Posts: 18,802
Loc: Journal Land
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: PirateSwazey]
#22307653 - 09/29/15 11:28 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I haven't rinsed grain since I started. But I use oats.
Oats are great . Hi Pirate
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows TNF Q&A AMU Q&A Dominus fortunae meae sum
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blackdust


Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 8,327
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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: PirateSwazey]
#22307657 - 09/29/15 11:29 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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well said pirate, I used to tell the ladies at whole foods I was making beer with all the berries I was buying.
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PirateSwazey


Registered: 12/12/12
Posts: 2,993
Loc: Here, Now
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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: blackdust]
#22307660 - 09/29/15 11:30 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
blackdust said: well said pirate, I used to tell the ladies at whole foods I was making beer with all the berries I was buying.
That is exactly what I do
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midnightmaraude
Stranger


Registered: 05/09/14
Posts: 1,260
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: PirateSwazey]
#22307830 - 09/29/15 12:02 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I say that with all the molasses I buy to make rum. I don't even know if you can make beer using molasses but it shuts them up enough.
Pirate...Oats is where it's at man.
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PirateSwazey


Registered: 12/12/12
Posts: 2,993
Loc: Here, Now
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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: midnightmaraude]
#22308002 - 09/29/15 12:28 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Oats suck IMO but I didn't drop in here to argue about it lol. I've just seen this OP struggling with getting it together for awhile and want to see him through.
There's a lot of things that are popular here on the msg boards that I disagree with but most of the time I just keep my opinions to myself. So I guess take what I say with a grain of salt. Just know when I speak on a topic, which is a rare occasion, it's backed by years of experience... This is what I do.
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blackdust


Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 8,327
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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: PirateSwazey]
#22308164 - 09/29/15 12:56 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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HIGHLY, recommends to go through pirates information
Quote:
PirateSwazey said: This is what I do.
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DinkinFlicka84
Dude



Registered: 01/19/14
Posts: 546
Last seen: 5 years, 12 days
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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: PirateSwazey]
#22309085 - 09/29/15 03:39 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
PirateSwazey said: Oats suck IMO but I didn't drop in here to argue about it lol. I've just seen this OP struggling with getting it together for awhile and want to see him through.
I appreciate the help there, Pirate. I'm definitely down to go the rye berry route next time I'm ready for another batch. I've used WBS for the 2 years I've been into this hobby, since that's how I was taught. Plus, it works.
I'm not sure if you read everything in this thread, but I was fairly certain (and that what caused my last batch to go bad was due to the heater I had in the closet with them, keeping my jars at about 82f inside with some fluctuation. Would 82f be hot enough to cause jars to go bad? Normally I don't have any of those little pressed-against-the-jar spots. It seems that every time I've ever heated my jars, they've contaminated before the first flush even.
I wanted to ask once more to the more experienced members about MS syringes. I have 3, but I've been knocking up everything with agar that have descended from those 3 syringes. Is it safe or a good idea to squirt 1 drop of MS into a quart of WBS? I've been slicing up each agar segment into 3-6 pieces so when I drop those pieces into the jars, they colonize quicker from multiple inoculation points. Good/bad idea???
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mushpunx
Fungus Punk



Registered: 04/20/14
Posts: 13,394
Last seen: 11 days, 9 hours
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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: PirateSwazey]
#22309254 - 09/29/15 04:04 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yea thats what I use too man. I special order a 50lb bag of organic rye berries once a month from a health food store in my city. About 50-60 bucks yea
It is nice rye! I usually give a quick rinse but youre right, they barely ever need it. And seeing how a 50lb bag will do about 15-20 tubs its fair, works out to like 2.50 per
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 Amateur Mycologists United AMU Q&A
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Kalistis


Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 2,265
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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: mushpunx]
#22311197 - 09/29/15 10:00 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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WBS was such a bitch to work with and I can see how the potential for contaminants is higher that with other grains. Oats were so simple to prep I almost thought it was too easy and must have messed up. There were super clean too and much cheaper than rye berries.
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DinkinFlicka84
Dude



Registered: 01/19/14
Posts: 546
Last seen: 5 years, 12 days
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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: Kalistis]
#22311707 - 09/29/15 11:54 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Caelistis said: WBS was such a bitch to work with and I can see how the potential for contaminants is higher that with other grains. Oats were so simple to prep I almost thought it was too easy and must have messed up. There were super clean too and much cheaper than rye berries.
1. What type of oats? 2. Where's a cheap place to buy them and 3.is there anything different about the prep process, 3. besides rinsing less dirt?
Here's more pics of the agar I'm using. These 2 pics are the ONLY agar I have with this blue coloring. I'm assuming it's bruising? Anyone seen exactly this on agar before?

I read here earlier that MS to grain was a terrible idea. When I first started this hobby, that's all I knew how to do. The way I learned was from a long time friend, who is now a long time member of this site, who passed along the info from here . I love this site and all the help btw.
Edited by DinkinFlicka84 (09/30/15 01:03 AM)
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: DinkinFlicka84]
#22312176 - 09/30/15 02:12 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Always use whole oats. And I don't really see any difference between whole oats and any other grain these days. Oats are by far the easiest to prep tho. Boil them hard for 45 mins until the inside is soft and clear. Strain and don't even let it dry. Load into jars/bags still wet from the boil.
The bruising is probably from the nutrients. What was the mix?
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DinkinFlicka84
Dude



Registered: 01/19/14
Posts: 546
Last seen: 5 years, 12 days
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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: Mad Season]
#22312352 - 09/30/15 03:55 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mad Season said: Always use whole oats. And I don't really see any difference between whole oats and any other grain these days. Oats are by far the easiest to prep tho. Boil them hard for 45 mins until the inside is soft and clear. Strain and don't even let it dry. Load into jars/bags still wet from the boil.
The bruising is probably from the nutrients. What was the mix?
It's just agar agar. Do all/most strains yield about the same weight when used in equal proportions?
So oats have more nutrients than WBS? Or are they just cleaner and require less rinsing/prep?
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: DinkinFlicka84]
#22312373 - 09/30/15 04:08 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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You need nutrients for it to grow. Like malt or even grain water. That's why it's bruising. I'd say yes on the strain question.
I'm pretty sure that oats has around the same nutrients. It just doesn't need rinsing and cleaner WBS has much more inoculation points due to the smaller grains. Oats are cheaper for me tho, so I run them the most. Just depends on what you want. Oats are just all around more convenient imo.
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DinkinFlicka84
Dude



Registered: 01/19/14
Posts: 546
Last seen: 5 years, 12 days
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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: Mad Season]
#22312414 - 09/30/15 04:34 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mad Season said: You need nutrients for it to grow. Like malt or even grain water. That's why it's bruising. I'd say yes on the strain question.
I'm pretty sure that oats has around the same nutrients. It just doesn't need rinsing and cleaner WBS has much more inoculation points due to the smaller grains. Oats are cheaper for me tho, so I run them the most. Just depends on what you want. Oats are just all around more convenient imo.
Well, the agar agar I ordered online said ready for mycology. It's worked just fine so far. That's the 1 bruised agar plate in 100 I've come across. I'm probably going to try out rye berries next.
Is there something wrong with inoculating WBS with MS besides the fact you can't see if there's contaminants and you don't know which or how good the strain will be when it fruits?
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blackdust


Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 8,327
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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: blackdust]
#22312686 - 09/30/15 07:14 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
blackdust said:
Quote:
blackdust said:

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Kalistis


Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 2,265
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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: blackdust]
#22313020 - 09/30/15 08:57 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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[image][url=http://files.shroomery.org/files/15-39/297872653-IMG_4772.jpg][image]
I just went to a feed store and got whole recleaned oats. I started with 4 MS syringes. 2 went straight to grain, 1 is being used with agar, and the last one has yet to be touched. My first batch of 12 jars (qt) are nearly ready to be spawned to bulk. None look contaminated but 2 are a little slow. My second batch are a week behind the first and I just shook them. This morning I woke up to find they all recovered!
2nd transfer to agar is happening tonight.
We'll see how it all works its self out when it is time to fruit.
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