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OfflineDinkinFlicka84
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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: wolf8312]
    #22295466 - 09/26/15 07:45 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Wolf:

My subs would get green mold, trich and other, before the 1st flush. I've gotten fruits usually, despite the mold, but not as many obviously.

My jars, this last go round, looked like this. ALL of my jars.


I want to say before this grow, about 5 months back, my jars were all white, didn't have little uncolonized spots, and would become moldy 1 week after being in the GH. The little spots are what make me think it's bacteria. I always shake my jars twice, occasionally before they're even 20% colonized if I'm in a hurry. Yes, I realize now that cutting corners, like heating my grow area, defeats the purpose, since everything goes bad.


So, I should leave my closet at or below 78? Or would that be too hot inside the jars which would be about 80f. What's the correct range that will keep bacteria from expanding.

Also, how do my jars get bacteria from heat, if my inoculant and grain were contam free to being with? Assuming that the grain/inoculant were free of any bacteria to start? That must mean that the bacteria is always there, but the myc usually is a little faster to colonize at lower temps and higher temps give bacteria the head start?


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Offlinemushpunx
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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: DinkinFlicka84]
    #22295517 - 09/26/15 07:51 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I would just keep your jars at room temp man, depending on what it is in your house. If your temp stays above 63-65 you're good man '

So you are sure your jars are going bacterial? They smell like bacteria/look like this ?

Or are you saying that your trays go green after you fruit them?
Trich will hide in grain spawn. You usually won't see it after your jars colonize, after G2G, after your tubs are fully colonized even.

Usually trich rears its ugly forest green head when you fruit your substrate, because you are in effect fruiting the trich as well.

  If this is the case, I would look at your innoculant and inoculation practices


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OfflineDarkhome
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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: DinkinFlicka84]
    #22295563 - 09/26/15 07:57 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Fall is finally here, maybe your contam rates will drop, most people's do.
I keep my grow area around 75 degrees Fahrenheit... It is a walk in closet with a fan constantly running on low, so the temperature sometimes fluctuates, but it usually doesn't drop below 72 or get above 80...I like it to stay around 75-78 if possible. This has been what works for me and I've tried 4 different WBS preps, they all worked.:shrug:
You will get there bro...You are already moving in the right direction.
Agar is the key to clean spawn, then it's all downhill from there (easier I mean)...I use Pasty Plates. Haven't failed me yet.
:goodluck:


--------------------
“The shaman is not merely a sick man, or a madman; he is a sick man who has healed himself.”
~Terence McKenna~


"NOTHING"...I post or say is "TRUE"...Any pictures are taken from the Web and any conversation is just research for a fictional character. That being said; He is constantly seeking knowledge and evolving.


Edited by Darkhome (09/26/15 07:58 PM)


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Offlinewolf8312
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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: mushpunx]
    #22296503 - 09/26/15 11:17 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

mushpunx said:
I would just keep your jars at room temp man, depending on what it is in your house. If your temp stays above 63-65 you're good man '

So you are sure your jars are going bacterial? They smell like bacteria/look like this ?

Or are you saying that your trays go green after you fruit them?
Trich will hide in grain spawn. You usually won't see it after your jars colonize, after G2G, after your tubs are fully colonized even.

Usually trich rears its ugly forest green head when you fruit your substrate, because you are in effect fruiting the trich as well.

  If this is the case, I would look at your innoculant and inoculation practices





lol! That bacteria! I never caught it that bad!

OP I wake up and all the pics are already gone buddy! Defo get the heater away and as the saying goes heat the room not the jars. Are you sure you even need an incubator or heating system? You must live in a pretty cold place right?

I only ever grew in the winter and wouldnt even attempt in the summer due to the dreaded fruit flies mainly, but aside from them summer is a shit storm of contamination.

Im not sure bacteria is your problem either or it might just be one of many! Defo get rid of the heater but you might want to outline your sterile technique. Make sure you cover all the variables. One time I got mold in my spawn because unknown to me all my SFD's had come loose over time!


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"I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of."

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OfflineDinkinFlicka84
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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: wolf8312]
    #22300733 - 09/27/15 09:50 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Well, the pics I had all look like the one I posted above. They have the little tiny spots that didn't colonize. In fact, before I did their first shake, there were only a small number of these little spots, but after a good shake, the tiny spots were everywhere and the jars ALL smelled bad. Sweet, sour, seedish, and just bad. I've smelled my share of bad as well as good healthy jars. I noticed to smell them before you shake them to spawn to bulk sub, otherwise, for some reason, the spawn smells like mushrooms again when you break it up and shake it, but you can still kinda smell the bacteria.

The reason I think it's bacteria is the small uncolonized spots. Wouldn't most you of you agree that it IS in fact bacteria? Also, the way I got the bacteria, shows that it's not trich, necessarily. The heater kept my closet at 80f-82f, and the inside of the jars, which I opened one and took the temp from the top, mid, and bottom of the seed inside and it was about 2 degrees warmer, so not a huge spike, but still anything above 80 ruins my spawn.

Tonight, I'm knocking up with 3 diff. MS from a trusted site that I used once before and have kept in the fridge until now. This shouldn't have any issues since I kept it refridgerated, right? Unless is was already contaminated. I never even sucked the plunger back up to keep any contaminants out. I just pushed it out a little to inoculate and taht's it.

I used to inoculate with 1cc per qt sized jar, but I swear that was one of the main reasons why my subs would go bad before even the first flush! Plus I think I was using a heater a lot of the time to speed things up. SO NOOB of me. I'll be patient leave them at room temp (74-76f).

I'm loving all of this info from experienced members of this site, so keep the debate rolling and if you need me to post anymore pics, I'll be sure and do that. I really do appreciate all of the input because this hobby is truly rewarding because it can be very difficult as well.


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Offlinemushpunx
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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: DinkinFlicka84]
    #22300774 - 09/27/15 10:01 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

If it smells bad then yea, huge indicator of bacteria. If your tubs go white, then green its most likely trich. No reason you can't have both, and no reason bacteria won't weaken the substrates defenses to mold either.

As for putting a spore syringe to grain, very few syringes are truly clean. BRF is a bit more forgiving than grain, most syringes are clean enough for cakes but not grain spawn.

Most of us would never put spores to grain without cleaning up the culture on agar first. So if you really wanna lose the bacteria, learn to utilize agar (it sounds kinda hard but its so much less work than you think, and easy).


--------------------

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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: DinkinFlicka84]
    #22301160 - 09/28/15 01:19 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DinkinFlicka84 said:
Wolf:

My subs would get green mold, trich and other, before the 1st flush. I've gotten fruits usually, despite the mold, but not as many obviously.

My jars, this last go round, looked like this. ALL of my jars.


I want to say before this grow, about 5 months back, my jars were all white, didn't have little uncolonized spots, and would become moldy 1 week after being in the GH. The little spots are what make me think it's bacteria. I always shake my jars twice, occasionally before they're even 20% colonized if I'm in a hurry. Yes, I realize now that cutting corners, like heating my grow area, defeats the purpose, since everything goes bad.


So, I should leave my closet at or below 78? Or would that be too hot inside the jars which would be about 80f. What's the correct range that will keep bacteria from expanding.

Also, how do my jars get bacteria from heat, if my inoculant and grain were contam free to being with? Assuming that the grain/inoculant were free of any bacteria to start? That must mean that the bacteria is always there, but the myc usually is a little faster to colonize at lower temps and higher temps give bacteria the head start?



I dont see bacteria but I see dried grain on top frm your filters


--------------------

It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn

I'm tired do me a favor


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Offlinemushpunx
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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: cronicr]
    #22301539 - 09/28/15 07:03 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

So you end up with un colonized grain in your sub causing it to contaminated?


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Offlinedinosaurcocks
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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: mushpunx]
    #22302408 - 09/28/15 11:37 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

kinda looks like you are missdiagnosing bacterial contamination...grains not fully colonizing on the sides is generally just water gloming between the grain and the jar...mycelium doesnt like to grow on overly wet grains, and overly dry grains produce less thick mycelium in my experience.

make sure your grains are actually simmering before you take them out to strain, i get quite a few bubbles coming out sometimes, almost looks like its simmering but water is cool to the touch, and i like to stir my grains while straining till it stops steaming alltogether


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: dinosaurcocks]
    #22302432 - 09/28/15 11:43 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Or just skip the simmer/boil step all together....


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Offlinemushpunx
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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: PussyFart]
    #22303069 - 09/28/15 02:08 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

That's only for WBS. yea? No simmer?


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: mushpunx]
    #22303569 - 09/28/15 03:48 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Yea, just WBS.

I cannot comment on other grain preps, because this is the only grain I have ever used.


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Invisibletahoe
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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: PussyFart]
    #22303649 - 09/28/15 04:06 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Hey drinking flicka. I have not read this whole thread and I have a feeling that your weight on the pc jiggles or hisses a whole bunch?
Try cooking at a tad lower temp. So that your weight doesn't hiss or jiggle. I notice items come out of the pc much dryer if there is no steam escaping.

You could also add a 1/2-1 tsp of lime to each jar before pcing.

I use bird seed that looks as wet as yours all the time. I almost never get bacteria.

What type of lid are you using? That little bit of moisture should easily evap out with the correct lid filter combo. Remove the foil if needed.
But I would seriously consider the lower pc temp.


--------------------
Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.


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Invisibleblindingleaf
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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: tahoe]
    #22304647 - 09/28/15 07:15 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

im gonna have to disagree with u on the steam thing man.  thats why i switched to the stop cock with the thread u posted.  my jigglier/exhaust was broke.  way too much steam was escaping.  if ur jigglier is rocking excessively, venting steam, ur jars are also losing a little bit of moisture as that happens.  same when u open a PC too soon after its done with grains (can rapidly lose moisture in jars) or agar (it will rapidly boil over), except its happening at a much slower rate, but over the coarse of 1.5-2 hours, too much jiggling/exhausting can dry out grains IME.
with the stop cock (or my 915 which has properly functioning exhaust), my grains come out perfect.
i agree with u that he should lower flame on stove.  i basically run my PC so it NEVER jiggles more than a few times when i first get to pressure.  i test it by stomping hard on the floor of the kitchen.  if when i stomp, the jigglier rocks/exhaust, then that is the flame setting i keep it on if that makes sense.  it is literally JUST below the PSI needed to cause jigglier to rock.

(jigglier=jiggler)


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MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!!

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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: DinkinFlicka84]
    #22305338 - 09/28/15 09:28 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

:lolsy:


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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: blackdust]
    #22305630 - 09/28/15 10:23 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

i''m just going to say you have had mold the whole time and didn't see it, if a jar makes it as far as the one you posted it should spawn out just fine, bacillus and coli would dtop you from getting full colonization and you would know to just chuck the jar


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It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn

I'm tired do me a favor


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InvisibleKalistis
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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: cronicr]
    #22305900 - 09/28/15 11:17 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I didn't simmer my WBS but soaked it. Seems to be going ok.

On the flip side I didn't soak my oats but I did boil. Also seems to be going ok.

I think with WBS you risk it getting over saturated if you simmer and difficult to get dry enough befor loading into jars.

I'm worried about contams too. I have agar going just in case but so far so good. Even though folks told me my silicone ports weren't necessary on my lids if I used a SAB, im kinda glad I made them. I think I would have questioned my technique if I got a contaminant now after opening the lid after PC.


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OfflineDinkinFlicka84
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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: mushpunx]
    #22305901 - 09/28/15 11:17 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

mushpunx said:
As for putting a spore syringe to grain, very few syringes are truly clean. BRF is a bit more forgiving than grain, most syringes are clean enough for cakes but not grain spawn.

Most of us would never put spores to grain without cleaning up the culture on agar first. So if you really wanna lose the bacteria, learn to utilize agar (it sounds kinda hard but its so much less work than you think, and easy).




I was unaware that spore to grain was such a bad idea, as that's how I used to inoculate all of my grain by MS syringes from our online spore site. As for agar, I've been using it for about 6 months now and I love it. I'm using all of the rest of my agar plates to knock up mass amounts of jars  I have ready. I suppose now, I won't use any syringe to grain, only syringe to agar to clean it up.


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OfflineDinkinFlicka84
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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: cronicr]
    #22305925 - 09/28/15 11:25 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

cronicr said:
i''m just going to say you have had mold the whole time and didn't see it, if a jar makes it as far as the one you posted it should spawn out just fine, bacillus and coli would stop you from getting full colonization and you would know to just chuck the jar




Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying, because initially I wanted to ask, "how could it spawn just fine if the jar smells bad?"
If they are in fact fine, then I'm excited to know I can still spawn the remaining jars that look just like that one.

Everyone of my jars, regardless of the strain, smelled bad when they were fully colonized like in the pic above. I can't imagine that I did the wrong thing in tossing most of those off/sweet smelling jars. I actually left about 20 jars that had the same issue, but weren't 100% colonized just in case.

Should I fruit these stinky jars? They do not smell like that good mushroomy smell at all.

Lastly, how could a smelly jar fruit just fine? Is that even possible?


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Edited by DinkinFlicka84 (09/29/15 12:09 AM)


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OfflineDinkinFlicka84
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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: PussyFart]
    #22305929 - 09/28/15 11:27 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

PussyFart said:
Or just skip the simmer/boil step all together....




Do you normally skip the simmer?

I've started to, since my grain isn't as sticky and eventually they don't stick to the jar after a couple days after PC'd.


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