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OfflineDinkinFlicka84
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RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!!
    #22289352 - 09/25/15 05:08 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I've posted countless times due to my bacteria issues and believe me that I'll try more or less anything that is suggested to me, even if it doesn't completely make sense.

If anyone uses WBS over and over and has contam free growth, please tell me how exactly you prep your grain. I use RR's videos, which are really great as I've just started to use 10% gypsum with my grain & also my bulk sub, but the grain prep video doesn't seem specific enough for me to not get the nasty bacteria.

I've tried:
1. Different simmering times, making sure not to burst more than 5%
2. I don't ever pull the sunflower seeds. They colonize just fine.
3. No soak, 6-24 hour soaks combined with or w/o simmering after
4. PC usually 90 min, but lately 120, just to make sure.

I JUST soaked 12 jars for 6 hrs, then PC'd for 120 min.
I also am trying a batch with 24 hr soak, and bringing the water to a simmering temp just to help with the steam dry.

I dry all of my seeds on towels for at least 4 hours with fans so that when i put them in the jar, they don't stick.

BUT!!!!

When I PC them, the seeds stick to the jars, which I know is just condensation, but after 24 hours, it's still doing this:



When before the PC, looked like this:



So please, any and all advice would be greatly appreciated. I'm going to hold off on PCing this grain until I get some good answers to try out. Thanks guys!!


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Invisiblefilthyknees
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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: DinkinFlicka84]
    #22289370 - 09/25/15 05:12 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

started an almost identical thread less than 24 hours ago

quit hogging & pass that shit

:lmao:


--------------------
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OfflineEntheoGod
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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: DinkinFlicka84]
    #22289390 - 09/25/15 05:17 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I am interested in seeing the responses...I hope a TC answers your question. I dont have any experience with this but I would love to see the answers. :takingnotes:

Although from taking a guess I would say for you to tighten the polyfill in the lids and also make sure your foil is nicely on there



Here are the 2 quarts I PC'ed and had a tiny bit of them sticking to the glass. Not sure if it was successful yet because I only inoculated them a few days ago. Nothing yet..


Edited by EntheoGod (09/25/15 05:21 PM)


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InvisibleLocN9ne
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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: DinkinFlicka84] * 1
    #22289392 - 09/25/15 05:17 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

After your simmer and strain how do you dry them? I bring them to a hard boil for a minute or two, strain, then return them to the still hot pot (they should be steaming at this point...then I agitate the pot by shaking it up and down pretty hard... I do that every couple of minutes until they are dry enough before I load my jars for the PC...I had that wet grain problem before I started really steam drying like that...hope that helps


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OfflineDaHamentashenkid
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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: filthyknees]
    #22289403 - 09/25/15 05:20 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I use WBS exclusively and I never have any issues. I rinse it until the water is clear and pull out all the sunflower seeds. At this point I turn my oven on to 200 Fahrenheit. Then I cover it in hot water in the same pot with the lid on. Bring it to a boil and then turn it off after one full minute and leave it covered to rest for ten minutes. Then I dump it into my strainer and rinse it with cold water until it's cooled down. I let it sit there for five minutes and then put it on a sheet tray in a thin layer, working in batches, and put it into the oven for six minutes stirring it around every two minutes. Then I put it in my jars an pressure cook.


Edited by DaHamentashenkid (09/25/15 05:21 PM)


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Invisiblegizmo1
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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: DaHamentashenkid]
    #22289477 - 09/25/15 05:40 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

How are you inoculating these jars? You could be getting bacteria from your cultures even if using agar. Bacteria can be sneaky.
In all my experience with wbs I found that moisture content isn't a big deal as long as its not outragiously wet. And the grains usually dry out before they finish colonizing. They always look wet out of the pressure cooker even when they went in completely dry on the outside.


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InvisibleMunchauzen
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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: gizmo1] * 1
    #22289612 - 09/25/15 06:32 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=2&Number=5265629&fpart=&PHPSESSID=

if that doesn't work, its probably your sterile technique.


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Invisiblejbaby007
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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: DinkinFlicka84]
    #22289732 - 09/25/15 07:04 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I've only used wbs since I've started bulk earlier this year and the only tek I have followed has been this No Cook WBS method. I've had great success with it.
There was only one time when I either didn't pc it long enough or I didn't rinse it well enough and two out of the six jars turned a mean green, but that was when I first started. However, there are many teks for prepping wbs and people still have success either way.
If I were you, I'd look into my sterile technique. I also noticed that certain brands of wbs are dirtier than others so I switched over to another brand which was less of a hassle when it came to rinsing.


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InvisibleMunchauzen
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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: jbaby007]
    #22289749 - 09/25/15 07:09 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

jbaby007 said:
I've only used wbs since I've started bulk earlier this year and the only tek I have followed has been this No Cook WBS method. I've had great success with it.
There was only one time when I either didn't pc it long enough or I didn't rinse it well enough and two out of the six jars turned a mean green, but that was when I first started. However, there are many teks for prepping wbs and people still have success either way.
If I were you, I'd look into my sterile technique. I also noticed that certain brands of wbs are dirtier than others so I switched over to another brand which was less of a hassle when it came to rinsing.




good method

also, it should be noted that sunflower seeds are removed not because they don't colonize... they do that just fine... however, they don't retain moisture for shit.


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Invisibleblindingleaf
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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: Munchauzen]
    #22289811 - 09/25/15 07:22 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

post a picture of ur jars, after u inoculate them, when u think you are first seeing signs of bacteria.  post pictures of ur plates when u inoculate too.

bacteria can come from ur innoculant (MS syringe, "clean" plate, LC, LI)

bacteria can come from ur grains (faulty/short PC cycle and/or rarely ur grain source considering u are doing 2 hours)

all white does not always equal "all right"


--------------------
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MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!!

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts


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OfflineEntheoGod
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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22289849 - 09/25/15 07:36 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Yea  :whathesaid:

Quote:

blindingleaf said:

all white does not always equal "all right"




this goes for races as well..lol


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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: EntheoGod]
    #22290268 - 09/25/15 09:18 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

it's going to be your inoculant or your sterility inoculating, you said your doing 2 hours at 15 psi so it isnt' your grains, check your filters and your inoculant.

what the  grain looks like before and after the pc means little, burstgrains will be starchy sticky and slow but still sterile, i never simmer wbs i find it to get too sticky for my liking i simply soak for a day or so drain for a bit load and pc


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OfflineMachiavelliavore
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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: cronicr]
    #22290295 - 09/25/15 09:22 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Interesting ^, in cold water?  And it hydrates sufficiently between what soaks in and what's left over and steamed in the PC?

OP, :whathesaid:, probably bad inoculant.  Just because it came from a vendor doesn't mean it's perfect.  All humans are capable of fucking up anything.


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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister.  I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave.  I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent.
Triggered yet?

Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."


No, this does not look right...


Edited by Machiavelliavore (09/25/15 09:25 PM)


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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: Machiavelliavore]
    #22290504 - 09/25/15 10:04 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

i start any soak with hot water to prevent germinating grain


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OfflineDinkinFlicka84
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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: cronicr]
    #22293288 - 09/26/15 12:21 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Every time I inoculate, I always use more than one source. I have 3 strains in 3 different syringes from a trusted site, plus a number of different agar plates.

I'm now about to PC the grain that has only soaked for 24 hours. The grains aren't nearly as big and hydrated as they usually are, but they shouldn't be sticky and have too much excess water.

Isn't it possible for some bacteria to withstand 2 hours of 15 psi? I know it's resilient, so If 2 hours guarantees that all bacteria is dead, even if my grain is a little wet? Or has more than 5% burst grain?


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Invisibleblindingleaf
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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: DinkinFlicka84]
    #22293326 - 09/26/15 12:30 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

yea, it is possible.
but for best advice, post a pic when u start seeing what you think is bacteria. 
IME, if its towards the end of a jars colonization, its confined to a spot or two,  i'd blame the PC cycle or the grains (maybe u aren't venting long enough?)
if its starting earlier, like 20% and on (or really even at leap off), then its probably ur syringe or agar plates.
leave a jar uninnoculated if ur really unsure of where it is coming from.  put it with the rest of ur jars that u noc up, and see if bacteria shows at the same time or not.

wet and burst grains won't cause bacteria in and of themselves (unless u have crazy pooling or a large amount burst), but it doesn't help prevent bacteria if even a little is in there (like some bacteria in the syringe for example).  usually heat in room is biggest cause IME, and wetter grains and burst grains just compound that.


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A few thoughts on cultivation
MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!!

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OfflineDinkinFlicka84
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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22293504 - 09/26/15 01:03 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah, I think the heat might have been the issue. Now I'm kicking myself for that. I had a small heater on a timer to keep the room at 80f, which inside the jar is about 82f.

They colonized quickly, but at the cost of my entire grow. I'll never do that again. How could this site, even 10 years ago, say that 86f is the best temp for myc? If it causes bacteria even half the time would've been obvious that 86f is causing bacterial isssues?


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Invisibleblindingleaf
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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: DinkinFlicka84]
    #22293572 - 09/26/15 01:15 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

its just old info.


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A few thoughts on cultivation
MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!!

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts


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Offlinewolf8312
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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: DinkinFlicka84]
    #22294268 - 09/26/15 03:49 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DinkinFlicka84 said:
Yeah, I think the heat might have been the issue. Now I'm kicking myself for that. I had a small heater on a timer to keep the room at 80f, which inside the jar is about 82f.

They colonized quickly, but at the cost of my entire grow. I'll never do that again. How could this site, even 10 years ago, say that 86f is the best temp for myc? If it causes bacteria even half the time would've been obvious that 86f is causing bacterial issues?




Ha this 'site' still constantly informs me on a weekly basis that boiling shrooms will destroy all the goodies. Some info just refuses to die! I think even posts that correct faulty info still end up somehow perpetuating it!

Are you saying that your grows end up totally contaminating OP and if so in what way? Do you end up with mold for example or do you just not get any fruits?

Just trying to work out what makes you so sure its a bacterial problem?

Interesting thread here http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22110907 about bacteria issues and to be honest mad season really opened my eyes to the notion that bacteria is very difficult and perhaps not really possible to avoid.

Quote:


@ wolf, it's still a heated debate today that getting jars to be 100% clean of bacteria is impossible. However increasing pc times generally makes them much cleaner looking




I am assuming however that in your case the bacteria is destroying everything in its path? Maybe I've missed alot of previous information but I think we need to know more about what happens to your jars from beginning to end.

Some of those jars do look too sticky and personally I would switch to a better more consistent type of grain. My fave was millet (black) or rye, no stickiness whatsoever!


--------------------
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Offlinemushpunx
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Re: RR - Cannot get WBS dry enough to prevent bacteria! Pros Only! Thanks!! [Re: DinkinFlicka84]
    #22295336 - 09/26/15 07:24 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DinkinFlicka84 said:
Yeah, I think the heat might have been the issue. Now I'm kicking myself for that. I had a small heater on a timer to keep the room at 80f, which inside the jar is about 82f.

They colonized quickly, but at the cost of my entire grow. I'll never do that again. How could this site, even 10 years ago, say that 86f is the best temp for myc? If it causes bacteria even half the time would've been obvious that 86f is causing bacterial isssues?





You know man the very first time I have ever had (visible at least) bacteria in spawn jars was this summer. I left out of town for a few days and my air conditioner was on the fritz, during the hottest week of the summer. Temp inside easily went into mid to high 80's. Every single one of those spawn jars showed heavy bacteria with the exception of one jar from the same round that was left in the cool basement for some reason.


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