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Achillita
Back to the basics



Registered: 05/26/14
Posts: 4,565
Last seen: 3 years, 10 days
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Re: Heading to an Ayahuasca retreat today! [Re: Tomandjerry58] 1
#22298095 - 09/27/15 11:37 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
preschooler said: lol idk anybody that would do that! Id personally try to ease all the stomach issues with other medicines in the brew...all that purging is just unnecessary imo
Purging is a part of the ayahuasca experience. It's the literal cleaning of your body. Some ayahusaca brews will add purging agents to help the purge be more full and complete.
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voodoochild1000
psychonautic



Registered: 02/04/15
Posts: 2,531
Loc: Cascades!
Last seen: 8 months, 16 days
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Re: Heading to an Ayahuasca retreat today! [Re: Achillita]
#22298130 - 09/27/15 11:44 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Achillita said:
Quote:
preschooler said: lol idk anybody that would do that! Id personally try to ease all the stomach issues with other medicines in the brew...all that purging is just unnecessary imo
Purging is a part of the ayahuasca experience. It's the literal cleaning of your body. Some ayahusaca brews will add purging agents to help the purge be more full and complete.
Quote:
Achillita said:
Quote:
preschooler said: lol idk anybody that would do that! Id personally try to ease all the stomach issues with other medicines in the brew...all that purging is just unnecessary imo
Purging is a part of the ayahuasca experience. It's the literal cleaning of your body. Some ayahusaca brews will add purging agents to help the purge be more full and complete.
Quote:
Achillita said:
Quote:
preschooler said: lol idk anybody that would do that! Id personally try to ease all the stomach issues with other medicines in the brew...all that purging is just unnecessary imo
Purging is a part of the ayahuasca experience. It's the literal cleaning of your body. Some ayahusaca brews will add purging agents to help the purge be more full and complete.
Quote:
Achillita said:
Quote:
preschooler said: lol idk anybody that would do that! Id personally try to ease all the stomach issues with other medicines in the brew...all that purging is just unnecessary imo
Purging is a part of the ayahuasca experience. It's the literal cleaning of your body. Some ayahusaca brews will add purging agents to help the purge be more full and complete.
...and puking makes u
-------------------- ....."So Great!"....-Me on 1.5mg LSD ...."We don't need this" -Larkin in response to my "just picked wild LSD!" post
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Tomandjerry58
Stranger

Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 5,212
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Re: Heading to an Ayahuasca retreat today! [Re: Achillita]
#22298155 - 09/27/15 11:49 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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oh ok... I thought it was something that just happened...didn't know that's what they were going for.
Seems unnecessary really as its most likely a difficult experience anyway.. If they were adding purging agents, I would want to know what they are before consuming.
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Tomandjerry58
Stranger

Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 5,212
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Quote:
voodoochild1000 said:
...and puking makes u
lol I can trip balls without puking
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Icon
Bloomer


Registered: 05/15/14
Posts: 2,866
Last seen: 10 hours, 17 minutes
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Re: Heading to an Ayahuasca retreat today! [Re: Tomandjerry58]
#22298585 - 09/27/15 01:20 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I 2nd the purging being unnecessary. You can do even better than making your own brew. Extract the DMT and harmalas to their pure powder forms. Makes it easy to measure your dose to your body weight and know how much you're taking. There's a sweet spot where the harmalas are effective without causing any nausea.
I have a friend who has attended a ceremony down there and tried the capsuled ayahuasca and he likes them both. I've never asked him to directly compare the two but c'mon guys, a less encumbering trip has more potential.
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Achillita
Back to the basics



Registered: 05/26/14
Posts: 4,565
Last seen: 3 years, 10 days
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Re: Heading to an Ayahuasca retreat today! [Re: Icon]
#22298607 - 09/27/15 01:27 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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The point of the purging is to cleanse your body, as the ayahuasca cleanses your mind. Traditionally that's why purging agents are added. Western culture has a pretty bad view on purging compared to most North and South native american spirituality.
If you just wanna trip, then by all means take the less purging way out. But purging is integral to the meaning of the ayahusca experience.
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voodoochild1000
psychonautic



Registered: 02/04/15
Posts: 2,531
Loc: Cascades!
Last seen: 8 months, 16 days
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Re: Heading to an Ayahuasca retreat today! [Re: Achillita]
#22298650 - 09/27/15 01:40 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Achillita said: The point of the purging is to cleanse your body, as the ayahuasca cleanses your mind. Traditionally that's why purging agents are added. Western culture has a pretty bad view on purging compared to most North and South native american spirituality.
If you just wanna trip, then by all means take the less purging way out. But purging is integral to the meaning of the ayahusca experience.
....agreed...but I've heard a certain percentage don't vomit...regardless
-------------------- ....."So Great!"....-Me on 1.5mg LSD ...."We don't need this" -Larkin in response to my "just picked wild LSD!" post
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voodoochild1000
psychonautic



Registered: 02/04/15
Posts: 2,531
Loc: Cascades!
Last seen: 8 months, 16 days
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And my mushroom purge experience! !
...loop the loop.... 
....I wasn't laughing when it was going down. ..
-------------------- ....."So Great!"....-Me on 1.5mg LSD ...."We don't need this" -Larkin in response to my "just picked wild LSD!" post
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Icon
Bloomer


Registered: 05/15/14
Posts: 2,866
Last seen: 10 hours, 17 minutes
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Re: Heading to an Ayahuasca retreat today! [Re: Achillita]
#22298687 - 09/27/15 01:49 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Can you provide some documentation of traditional people adding extra purging agents to the brew to specifically enhance their physical sickness? I know purging has always been common with ayahuasca, but I think it's an incorrect assumption that the purging is correlated to the depth of the experience. I don't think it's necessary, it's just like gaining your sea legs. Many shamans cease to ever purge again after becoming adjusted to drinking Aya so regularly.
I've thrown up several times on pharmahuasca when I was still dialing in the harmala dose - didn't really add to the experience. In some cases it aborted the trip altogether when I would purge too soon. My trips that were dialed in correctly greatly exceeded my expectations and the brews.
Edited by Icon (09/27/15 01:50 PM)
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Sabnock
Be Your Own Shaman


Registered: 01/02/14
Posts: 3,249
Last seen: 4 hours, 11 minutes
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Yeah AkashicExplorer, the money you spent on that, could've gotten you a kilo of Mimosa, a kilo of Acacia, and 4.2 pounds of Rue seed, which would've gotten you well over 200 experiences. Definitely get the plants and brew them up/extract them yourself, and experiment around. Get the dosing and timing down right, and you'll be good to go. Caapi is a bit more expensive than Rue for the amount of experiences you get, so Rue is probably better to go with, while saving the Caapi for a special occasion after you've had some practice with Rue and Mimosa or Acacia.
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Sabnock
Be Your Own Shaman


Registered: 01/02/14
Posts: 3,249
Last seen: 4 hours, 11 minutes
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Re: Heading to an Ayahuasca retreat today! [Re: Icon]
#22298891 - 09/27/15 02:29 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icon said: Can you provide some documentation of traditional people adding extra purging agents to the brew to specifically enhance their physical sickness? I know purging has always been common with ayahuasca, but I think it's an incorrect assumption that the purging is correlated to the depth of the experience. I don't think it's necessary, it's just like gaining your sea legs. Many shamans cease to ever purge again after becoming adjusted to drinking Aya so regularly.
I've thrown up several times on pharmahuasca when I was still dialing in the harmala dose - didn't really add to the experience. In some cases it aborted the trip altogether when I would purge too soon. My trips that were dialed in correctly greatly exceeded my expectations and the brews.
I hear ya there. I myself also believe the purging to be unnecessary. I've taken Mimosa and Acacia with Moclobemide many times, and while the DMT can cause some slight nausea, that's easily corrected by a few puffs of Cannabis, but i've never purged from using Moclobemide. The Rue/Caapi/Harmalas seem to trigger the 5-HT3 receptor, that's my guess anyways, but after awhile, in my experience, the purging does seem to stop after regular use of the Harmalas, almost like the 5-HT3 receptor has been de-sensitized or something. Once my body gets used to the Rue on a regular basis, i can actually use higher doses without purging, though there could still be some slight nausea, but for the most part my stomach seems fine after regular use of Rue, and any nausea that still exists Cannabis takes care of. And yes, the purge did abort some of my experiences rather early as well.
As for adding purgative agents to an Ayahuasca brew, i've heard some folks will add some Mapacho Tobacco to the brews, and i think there was another plant though i forgot the name, that is added for an extra kick in the purgative department.
I frankly don't see the need to purge, as long as i purge things mentally, my body should purge toxins by excreting them rather than making me purge, at least that's the way i see it. I can experience the DMT just fine with Moclobemide, no purge, but for some reason, the Harmalas just do something a bit different, and i one day want to find out what it is that causes the purge, and find a way to remove it without impacting the experience, idk if it's possible though.
And i've never had an experience get stronger because of purging, sure it can briefly intensify the closed eye visuals for a minute, but other than that, the effects of the DMT and Harmalas work like usual, ime purging has nothing to do with the main experience, purging/nausea is just a side-effect that is not really needed apparently, at least when it comes to experiencing the DMT.
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DOBAS



Registered: 07/06/13
Posts: 1,002
Loc: Virginia
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Re: Heading to an Ayahuasca retreat today! [Re: Sabnock]
#22299352 - 09/27/15 04:18 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Where was the retreat?
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natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
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Re: Heading to an Ayahuasca retreat today! [Re: DOBAS]
#22299540 - 09/27/15 05:01 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Totally called it earlier in this thread. Ayahuasca has only been synonymous with DMT in recent decades. True traditional preparations of ayahuasca do not always call for a DMT bearing plant; but most call for some form of datura, which is interesting...
The marketing ploys of these places appeal to a certain crowd, and they know they can milk that crowd hard for what they promise, if it's not one of the free clinics, which are out there, don't bother.
I think the true shamanic way would be to brew it yourself and administer it to your tribe. Get some bark, learn a tek, and you'll be set for life
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champinhom
Lord Justhappensness


Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 987
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Quote:
AkashicExplorer said:
I was willing to have a terrifying trip if I needed to, to experience “death and rebirth” through the shamanic ways and wake up next morning with something new…
I felt so upset through, I was the only one there that did the appropriate preparation (food, spiritual focus, etc) and that approached Ayahuasca the right way, and I was the only one who got fried... so unfair 
You were willing to have a terrifying trip--as long as it ended up blissful, ego-death, oneness, etc., right? What's so terrifying about that? What you basically wanted was your cake and the eating of it too.
The truth is you DID have a terrifying trip. Good for you. You learned something important, namely: Find out in detail what you are putting into you mouth before you put it into your mouth.
-------------------- My father used to say: I don't care what else you do in life, just don't be an asshole. People, forgive me when I forget what my daddy said. Cut back the proliferating list of people whose opinions can hurt you. Unless they have done or want to do you some good, their views are just not worth tracking. Saul Bellow “People are just cannibals unless they leave each other alone.” Doris Lessing Those whom the gods would save, they dower with compassion. Mr. P. Silocybin
Edited by champinhom (09/27/15 05:59 PM)
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flickedbic
Sojourner



Registered: 03/21/11
Posts: 4,673
Loc: Fractalic Fabric
Last seen: 8 hours, 38 minutes
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...Quote:
if you could really go to the jungle with a 100% for real shaman that was doing it for cost and not for profit and had all of the best intentions that would be amazing
...
I want to go to this organic farm in Ecuador; Finca Amiruca("Finca" = Farm and "Amiruca" is another word for Chacruna or the DMT-containing plant).
Work on an organic DMT Farm... it's a registered WWOOF farm too so you work, not pay, for your stay.
In that same community of Santo Domingo there is an old shaman- Don Vicente Mamallacta.
Quote:
A ceremony with Vicente can be bought from 10 dollars if you don’t have any more than that. If you can give USD20 or bring some sugar, salt and flour to the family you will probably make everybody happy.
https://colonos.wordpress.com/2008/09/27/don-vicente-mamallacta-a-kichwa-shaman/
-------------------- Favorite entheogen experiences in descending order: 1)Combo of oral DMT + smoked Bufotenine 2)Amanita (urine drank twice) 3)Mushrooms > Achuma 16"+cid(still need higher dose Achuma)> Cid (still need high dose) 4)Morning Glory-HBWR (+cumin, cinnamon aldehyde adducts) > Methyl chavicol (need more activators) 5)Salvia (need to try quid)
All readable matter in the above post is ficticious... any similarities to real life are purely coincidental. Blessing.
Edited by flickedbic (09/27/15 06:58 PM)
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AkashicExplorer
Dimensional Jumper



Registered: 09/12/13
Posts: 912
Last seen: 4 days, 14 hours
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Re: Heading to an Ayahuasca retreat today! [Re: flickedbic]
#22301372 - 09/28/15 04:36 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
preschooler said: Whats the name of the place you went to so I can completely avoid them if I decide to do this.
Sorry to hear about the bad experience
It is called Ayahuasca Internacional (they are all around Europe) Alberto Varela is the head of this "business" But he was not the day I went, they have a lot of facilitators.
Quote:
voodoochild1000 said: I'M sorry brother. ..your intent was on point....
......so...this was in the states?...man....at 1st I wanted to do the shamanic thing...but after research I really feel more comfortable brewing it myself or with my friends and trip companions. ...
I mean if you could really go to the jungle with a 100% for real shaman that was doing it for cost and not for profit and had all of the best intentions that would be amazing :-)! But this is a serious f****** psycho active compound that will blow you away more than any f****** mushroom trip. I need this to be in the kindest and safest and most productive of settings. I need to produce the brew with my own hands so that I know what is in it and have an idea of what my dosage is about. All of the ritual istic elements can be brought to bear.
... it's all about approaching it ritualistically I mean you can do all of the things and if your intent is true that is the most important thing!
.... Real shamanism is some amazing stuff but you really really need to know who you're dealing with and that's never an easy thing to accomplish especially when you never met someone before or spent any time with them. ....this bullshit really pisses me off ....FUCK THOSE FAKE ASS MOTHERFUCKERS DESTROYING THE SACRED JOURNEY . .. seriously man you should post information on here and on Facebook and let everybody know that this is a f****** scam and you should absolutely call them out and ask for your money back and let them know that you're going to discredit them and every way possible! ...CUNTS!
....
U ARE THE SHAMAN
It was actually in Spain. I moved here about a year ago from the States. I am used to dollars and English speaking, but the price is actually 351 euro, so about $400.
I am feeling the same way as you are. But lesson learned. I am done with Ayahuasca for a while, I will eat some of my munchies in a couple weeks maybe and keep vaping my weed for now, maybe also some salvia that I still have some... and later in the year or next year I will buy the ingredients and brew the Ayahuasca myself...
Probably they won't return my money, but I will definitely try. Sadly, I could not sue them because DMT is illegal haha.
Quote:
preschooler said: I wonder if these places will let you bring your own brew and just join the circle. Not sure if id trust a shaman really..
pretty sure I could mix up a damn fine brew
I doubt it... but I don't care. I have a friend who knows a shaman that does the real thing, will the right ceremonies and DMT-containing Ayahuasca. This shaman interviews people through skype or in person before approving them for Ceremony. The problem is that I do not speak french, which is the only language that shaman speaks haha.
Quote:
Achillita said:
Quote:
preschooler said: lol idk anybody that would do that! Id personally try to ease all the stomach issues with other medicines in the brew...all that purging is just unnecessary imo
Purging is a part of the ayahuasca experience. It's the literal cleaning of your body. Some ayahusaca brews will add purging agents to help the purge be more full and complete.
Agree. I hate puking but I accept it (once, twice, thrice tops... the normal) as a cleansing and part of the puke-trip thing... but not only puke-puke-puke-feel like shit like happened on mine.
Quote:
Sabnock said: Yeah AkashicExplorer, the money you spent on that, could've gotten you a kilo of Mimosa, a kilo of Acacia, and 4.2 pounds of Rue seed, which would've gotten you well over 200 experiences. Definitely get the plants and brew them up/extract them yourself, and experiment around. Get the dosing and timing down right, and you'll be good to go. Caapi is a bit more expensive than Rue for the amount of experiences you get, so Rue is probably better to go with, while saving the Caapi for a special occasion after you've had some practice with Rue and Mimosa or Acacia.
Yup, I know... I wanted to do things right and I got fried... Lesson learned.
Quote:
natedawgnow said: Totally called it earlier in this thread. Ayahuasca has only been synonymous with DMT in recent decades. True traditional preparations of ayahuasca do not always call for a DMT bearing plant; but most call for some form of datura, which is interesting...
The marketing ploys of these places appeal to a certain crowd, and they know they can milk that crowd hard for what they promise, if it's not one of the free clinics, which are out there, don't bother.
I think the true shamanic way would be to brew it yourself and administer it to your tribe. Get some bark, learn a tek, and you'll be set for life
Yup... indeed. I wanted to drink it sitting around the fire, having the shaman singing/channeling icaros and the whole group drumming while tripping balls. I guess it will be solo trips (My wife is afraid from Ayahuasca, and now, even more.)
Quote:
champinhom said:
Quote:
AkashicExplorer said:
I was willing to have a terrifying trip if I needed to, to experience “death and rebirth” through the shamanic ways and wake up next morning with something new…
I felt so upset through, I was the only one there that did the appropriate preparation (food, spiritual focus, etc) and that approached Ayahuasca the right way, and I was the only one who got fried... so unfair 
You were willing to have a terrifying trip--as long as it ended up blissful, ego-death, oneness, etc., right? What's so terrifying about that? What you basically wanted was your cake and the eating of it too.
The truth is you DID have a terrifying trip. Good for you. You learned something important, namely: Find out in detail what you are putting into you mouth before you put it into your mouth.
There is nothing terrifying about that, but I meant if I had to be in terror (read Ayahuasca trip reports and you will know what I mean) I was okay with it, especially if after learning the hard teachings, the trip turns into bliss and joy. Thats what I meant. I did not trip at all, and I neither was terrified, just puking my shit out. True, I need to know what I put into my mouth, and I would not eat acid before testing it, etc... but I never thought there would be scammers out there with Ayahuasca... and indeed, I learned the lesson 
Quote:
flickedbic said: ...Quote:
if you could really go to the jungle with a 100% for real shaman that was doing it for cost and not for profit and had all of the best intentions that would be amazing
...
I want to go to this organic farm in Ecuador; Finca Amiruca("Finca" = Farm and "Amiruca" is another word for Chacruna or the DMT-containing plant).
Work on an organic DMT Farm... it's a registered WWOOF farm too so you work, not pay, for your stay.
In that same community of Santo Domingo there is an old shaman- Don Vicente Mamallacta.
Quote:
A ceremony with Vicente can be bought from 10 dollars if you don’t have any more than that. If you can give USD20 or bring some sugar, salt and flour to the family you will probably make everybody happy.
https://colonos.wordpress.com/2008/09/27/don-vicente-mamallacta-a-kichwa-shaman/
Thanks. I will check it out, but anyway, I am probably brewing it myself next time.
--------------------
The 87 gram MushZilla BEAST
And it just obliterated the uttermost crap out from me. Love, Bliss, Laughter and Enlightenment!
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Tomandjerry58
Stranger

Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 5,212
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Spain that's cool...my buddy and his wife live over their. They just drink beers tho.
You should really look into growing shrooms if you can. Psilocybin mushrooms are actually legal in spain from what I understand.
Ive actually had mushrooms experiences that closely rivaled smoked dmt(the only way ive ever tried it)...everyone says that it doesn't compare but if prepared correctly with the right genetics. You can catch one hell of a trip 
To the other posters here: its good to see that im not the only one that doesn't like puking my guts out Been using psychs for way too long for al that funny stuff
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voodoochild1000
psychonautic



Registered: 02/04/15
Posts: 2,531
Loc: Cascades!
Last seen: 8 months, 16 days
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Re: Heading to an Ayahuasca retreat today! [Re: Tomandjerry58]
#22301573 - 09/28/15 07:18 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Glad your gaining knowledge from your experience! ....sounds l8ke you will get it right next time....best wishes
-------------------- ....."So Great!"....-Me on 1.5mg LSD ...."We don't need this" -Larkin in response to my "just picked wild LSD!" post
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AkashicExplorer
Dimensional Jumper



Registered: 09/12/13
Posts: 912
Last seen: 4 days, 14 hours
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Quote:
preschooler said: Spain that's cool...my buddy and his wife live over their. They just drink beers tho.
You should really look into growing shrooms if you can. Psilocybin mushrooms are actually legal in spain from what I understand.
Ive actually had mushrooms experiences that closely rivaled smoked dmt(the only way ive ever tried it)...everyone says that it doesn't compare but if prepared correctly with the right genetics. You can catch one hell of a trip 
To the other posters here: its good to see that im not the only one that doesn't like puking my guts out Been using psychs for way too long for al that funny stuff
Yep, mushrooms are legal. I actually grow them (look at my avatar, that was my first noob growth a couple years ago hehe) I also buy truffles online sometimes, they are also legal and while they are cubes too, I experience slight changes during the trips.
By the way, I hate puking. But it was (and it is) a price I was/am willing to pay for DMT containing Ayahuasca.
Quote:
voodoochild1000 said: Glad your gaining knowledge from your experience! ....sounds l8ke you will get it right next time....best wishes
Indeed Thanks for the good vibes, I am sure next time will be awesome indeed (brew myself)
--------------------
The 87 gram MushZilla BEAST
And it just obliterated the uttermost crap out from me. Love, Bliss, Laughter and Enlightenment!
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natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
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Quote:
AkashicExplorer said:
Quote:
preschooler said: Spain that's cool...my buddy and his wife live over their. They just drink beers tho.
You should really look into growing shrooms if you can. Psilocybin mushrooms are actually legal in spain from what I understand.
Ive actually had mushrooms experiences that closely rivaled smoked dmt(the only way ive ever tried it)...everyone says that it doesn't compare but if prepared correctly with the right genetics. You can catch one hell of a trip 
To the other posters here: its good to see that im not the only one that doesn't like puking my guts out Been using psychs for way too long for al that funny stuff
Yep, mushrooms are legal. I actually grow them (look at my avatar, that was my first noob growth a couple years ago hehe) I also buy truffles online sometimes, they are also legal and while they are cubes too, I experience slight changes during the trips.
By the way, I hate puking. But it was (and it is) a price I was/am willing to pay for DMT containing Ayahuasca.
Quote:
voodoochild1000 said: Glad your gaining knowledge from your experience! ....sounds l8ke you will get it right next time....best wishes
Indeed Thanks for the good vibes, I am sure next time will be awesome indeed (brew myself)
Quote:
AkashicExplorer said:
Quote:
preschooler said: Spain that's cool...my buddy and his wife live over their. They just drink beers tho.
You should really look into growing shrooms if you can. Psilocybin mushrooms are actually legal in spain from what I understand.
Ive actually had mushrooms experiences that closely rivaled smoked dmt(the only way ive ever tried it)...everyone says that it doesn't compare but if prepared correctly with the right genetics. You can catch one hell of a trip 
To the other posters here: its good to see that im not the only one that doesn't like puking my guts out Been using psychs for way too long for al that funny stuff
Yep, mushrooms are legal. I actually grow them (look at my avatar, that was my first noob growth a couple years ago hehe) I also buy truffles online sometimes, they are also legal and while they are cubes too, I experience slight changes during the trips.
By the way, I hate puking. But it was (and it is) a price I was/am willing to pay for DMT containing Ayahuasca.
Quote:
voodoochild1000 said: Glad your gaining knowledge from your experience! ....sounds l8ke you will get it right next time....best wishes
Indeed Thanks for the good vibes, I am sure next time will be awesome indeed (brew myself)
Truffles are most certainly not cubes. The sclerotia forming active species are p. Tampanensis, p. Mexicana, atl #7, etc.
They feel different because they are an entirely different species.
Glad you made it through without any serious adverse affects, op!
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