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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: bluish green spots? [Re: blackdust]
    #22298298 - 09/27/15 12:20 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Don't come in here using terms like opinion leaders.  We have people who are listening to the mushrooms and what they want, and moving forward with that knowledge, and people who want to serve themselves and their egos, and they hold onto whatever knowledge makes them feel good.


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: bluish green spots? [Re: blackdust]
    #22298306 - 09/27/15 12:22 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

blackdust said:
micro, if you would like to accelerate the information diffusion process (as a change agent) you would need to gain the support of the opinion leaders of the Shroomery community. The opinion leaders would be the moderators and trusted cultivators that frequent the cultivation forums.

:themoreyouknow:




Don't care enough to. And no.

I only post here because a) I think it might help someone and b) otherwise I would have to be reading this bioinformatics shit to get ready for my interview on Tuesday. Which I really should do. I like to procrasticate though :lol:

Quote:

Inocuole said:
We have people who are listening to the mushrooms and what they want




Is that anything like listening to the flower people? :rolleyes:


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: bluish green spots? [Re: micro]
    #22298375 - 09/27/15 12:37 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Micro I did go through your posts. I did not find a single pic of a monotub by you period. In fact I did not find a pic of mushrooms grown by you either. Please provide me a link, so that I can readjust my entire growing paradigm to bring my yields up to par with yours.

A single pic and link of a mono you did in 2003 would be not only excellent, it would basicly make Ohmatic a liar for claiming that he developed it (with the help of Gretchen).

At any rate here are some tubs I did while misting them with a cheap mister I got from the dollar store. Big drops and all. I also made sure not to waste any time on fanning them. Not once. Cause pics are convincing. Show me better pinsets and fatter stipes.

Albino Penis Envy



Penis Envy



Colombian Rust Spore



Fiji




KSSS



Wikidzon



Rusty Whyte

First Generation



Second Generation




Third Generation



Ganoderma Lucidum



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Invisibleblackdust
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Re: bluish green spots? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22298407 - 09/27/15 12:42 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

im sorry whyte
buy i have to :lol: ever time a TC gets so frustrated that they post a wall of amazing shrooms
i love it
my fav are the Second Generation (should have cloned/slanted them man)


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: bluish green spots? [Re: blackdust]
    #22298431 - 09/27/15 12:47 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Pretty sure he does keep the second gen around.


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Re: bluish green spots? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22298452 - 09/27/15 12:51 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

My experience albiet not as extensive as some, has proven to me that mushrooms do indeed need fresh air to thrive. Elevated CO2 levels produced poor pinsets, stringy mushrooms and a shitty yield. When I started with the shroomery I was skeptical that filling a tub with a bunch of holes could be a good idea. I was a big believer in things like PMPs, drip shields, not misting fruits, colonizing in darkness, incubation, and many other things that I shake my head at today.

I was taught to grow by a friend who swore by all of these methods. I then read all of the bad outdated info on the shroomerys main page, not realizing that the good stuff was in the forums. By the time I made it onto the boards I was embarrassed with how crappy my grows looked compared to what people were doing. Sure I had clean cultures and was rocking agar, but I had no idea how to fruit properly. When I think back to my results where I was misting walls and fanning tubs with no holes I shudder.

Yes people can produce fruits with just a little GE. I can toss a sub in the trash and see fruits. Not the point.



Yes the second gen was cloned and slanted. I am actually expanding for another go at it right now.


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Re: bluish green spots? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22298486 - 09/27/15 12:58 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:


Yes the second gen was cloned and slanted. I am actually expanding for another go at it right now.




:angel:
i just love how they look
dense, uniform, and fucking beautiful


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Re: bluish green spots? [Re: blackdust]
    #22298493 - 09/27/15 01:00 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

They are also potent as hell. 2.5 grams puts me on the damn moon :vibin:


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: bluish green spots? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22299744 - 09/27/15 06:00 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
A single pic and link of a mono you did in 2003 would be not only excellent, it would basicly make Ohmatic a liar for claiming that he developed it (with the help of Gretchen).





Got real quiet...


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Invisibleblackdust
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Re: bluish green spots? [Re: Inocuole]
    #22299825 - 09/27/15 06:23 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Shhhhh


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: bluish green spots? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22301238 - 09/28/15 02:03 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Micro I did go through your posts. I did not find a single pic of a monotub by you period. In fact I did not find a pic of mushrooms grown by you either. Please provide me a link, so that I can readjust my entire growing paradigm to bring my yields up to par with yours.




You won't find any because I never took pictures of myself doing illegal things :rolleyes:

I know I mentioned it at last several hundred times tho.

Look, my goal here isn't to have a pissing contest. I already know I'm right.

Besides, I was never impressed with things like sample bias :V

If someone posts utter nonsense I'm gonna call them out on it.

I won't beat a dead horse though.

When I move into my new place I can try some stuff and take pics.

I don't care as much these days and I wouldn't be growing a shitload this time.

It would be on a micro scale (heh) just to show you how it's done ;3



Oh, PS - I'm sure whoever it was *did* re-invent it.

I mean, come on. Put casing in big plastic bin.

It aint rocket science.

(and mind you I just covered them in plastic. i'm lazy and that was enough)


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Re: bluish green spots? [Re: micro]
    #22301377 - 09/28/15 04:43 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Posts utter nonsense?  Oh like mist the walls cause cubes can't handle raindrops :lmafo: Or how you covered the cubes in plastic cause your lazy? Yeah cause putting a lid on a tub is hard work :rolleyes:

Whatever. Can't wait to see your grow tho :thumbup:


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Re: bluish green spots? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22301430 - 09/28/15 05:49 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

are you really unable to think of variables that could cause this ???

you are dismissing potentially good information for some people because you *assume* all conditions are the same

they are not, and so that we don't make an ass out of you and me...

a. if you are growing at lower temperatures water won't evaporate as quickly, causing whatever you are fruiting in to dry out (have you ever seen stuff posted on here that was obv. too dry? it was clearly stated in this thread and another that humidity doesn't matter. sorry, i'm calling bs)

b. elevation can cause this as well (higher elevations where the pressure is lower would result in a higher rate of diffusion)

Quote:

The coefficient of diffusion is the product of mean velocity and mean free path, with a prefactor that can be temperature dependent. The mean velocity depends only on temperature; the mean free path is inversely proportional to the density of the gas. Thus, a thinner atmosphere has a higher diffusivity.




http://thesis.library.caltech.edu/1586/11/10Chapter2.pdf

c. both items above would obviously play a role in "evaporating the water from the fruitbodies" when you and others claim it will just evaporate on its own. i don't know where you live, don't particularly care, but how can you come to that conclusion when you are dealing with a stochastic system such as this ???  don't bother, the question was rhetorical, obviously it will vary that's why weather people talk about stuff like barometric pressure or "gee, it's really f'ing dry" :v

d. all those were pics of casings, which as i said before don't matter as much with the rH

e. saying that fanning doesn't involve gas exchange is both ignorant and silly. while i'm not going to say which is better, a filter or fanning, they obviously both work. and despite whatever you were looking at people have been doing the latter successfully for quite some time. if i had to pick one, i would probably say filters but I could also make the argument it could help h2o(g) to escape, especiallly with lower pressure and higer temperature. ime, it wasn't a huge problem with cased mycelium since the whole raison d'etre of casing is to keep moisture in. and yes i was lazy and i was also successful. not sure why i missed the joke, maybe because i think a few steps ahead but success is a good thing in my book. if i grow again it would be on a much smaller scale and no, silly -- i wasn't talking about the lid, it wasn't airtight anyway hence the plastic. i just didn't feel like weaseling filteration into 20-30 large plasti tubs because it is a pain in the ass :v

f. saying temperature x is better than teperature y is also ignoring unknown variables, treating them as invariants. different contaminants have different optimal temperatures and you won't have the same spores in one geographical region to the next



okay i could keep going but i think you get the point

also, enough childish ad homiem nonsense; be a man and attack the argument

i hope i haven't gotten to you that much because i honestly don't care one way or the other :v


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Re: bluish green spots? [Re: micro]
    #22301494 - 09/28/15 06:34 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Umm this is getting retarded.  If a SGFC gets dry hydrate the perilite and mist the substrate and fruits to aid in replacing lost moisture. I use a cheap mister to do this.

Second I know all about growing at elevation and in cooler temps,  winters here get down to -40. The inside of my house gets to be 1% RH in winter. It ain't fun for me. I help my fruits out by using a mister. I mist them directly. The tub walls do just fine without being misted.

Third it looks like you're not listening. Given that you can't even use proper terms to describe anything I'm not surprised. I posted pics of monotubs with bulk substrates in them. Some were cased. Some were uncased. calling something "a casing" is not describing anything with any accuracy. I also posted pics of trays done in a SGFC. Some of them were cased. Some were not. I also used a mister on them. Again it was a cheap one from a dollar store.

No i didn't include pics of cakes, I don't have many of them. But its all the same. Substrates that are getting dry need to be misted. They still need to breathe fresh air more than 5 times a day as well. Otherwise your pinset is poor and the fruits suffer.

No one is saying fanning doesn't change out the built up CO2. No one. But the CO2 will build up again quickly.  I personally don't have time to exchange the gas in any chamber I run 48 times a day round the clock to keep CO2 concentration at acceptable levels. Go tell an oyster farmer that he can grow oysters in a sealed tub and just fan it to achieve gas exchange.  Then take note of his expression.

Read man.

:picard:


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Re: bluish green spots? [Re: micro]
    #22301515 - 09/28/15 06:48 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

more ad hominem nonsense, also you said you used a spray bottle, yada, yada, whatever

you are right though in that there are like... two jars there. wow

The Reason Spraying Water on Primordia Causes Aborts

Actually, the proper term is "mounds" which explaims why I never found anything in Pubmed before. It is genetic, and it is also caused by WATER via hydrophobins.

Quote:

An abnormal growth form called mound has been hypothesized to be a neoplasm in the filamentous fungus Schizophyllum commune. An alternative hypothesis is that mounds represent some unusual developmental form in the fruiting body morphogenetic pathway. Hydrophobin proteins have been found in fruiting bodies where they line the surface of gas exchange pores and function to keep the pores hydrophobic. To further determine possible relationships between mounds and fruiting bodies, mound tissue was examined for gas exchange pores and the presence of hydrophobins. Cryoscanning electron microscopic images revealed the presence of channels in mound tissue and presumptive hydrophobin rodlets similar to the air channels in fruiting bodies. Hydrophobin gene expression was also measured in mound tissue using quantitative real-time PCR and showed both monokaryotic and dikaryotic mound tissue exhibited high expression of the dikaryotic specific Sc4 hydrophobin gene. In contrast, Sc4 hydrophobin expression was barely detectable in monokaryotic fruiting bodies. The expression of Sc4 hydrophobin genes in mounds suggests mound development uses this aspect of the dikaryotic fruiting developmental pathway.




Quote:

Two monokaryons of Schizophyllum commune can form a fertile dikaryon when the mating-type genes differ. Monokaryons form sterile aerial hyphae, while dikaryons also form fruiting bodies that function in sexual reproduction. The SC3 hydrophobin gene is expressed both in monokaryons and in dikaryons. The SC4 hydrophobin is dikaryon specific. In the monokaryon, SC3 lowers the water surface tension, coats aerial hyphae with a hydrophobic layer and mediates attachment of hyphae to hydrophobic surfaces. The SC4 protein lines gas channels within fruiting bodies with a hydrophobic membrane. Using gene disruptions, in this study, we show that in dikaryons SC3 fulfils the same roles as in monokaryons. SC4, on the other hand, has a role within fruiting bodies. In contrast to gas channels in fruiting bodies of the wild type, those of a DeltaSC4 strain easily filled with water. Thus, SC4 prevents gas channels filling with water under wet conditions, probably serving uninterrupted gas exchange. Other dikaryon-specific hydrophobin genes, SC1 and SC6, apparently do not substitute for the SC4 gene. In addition, by expressing the SC4 gene behind the SC3 promoter in a DeltaSC3 monokaryon, it was shown that SC4 cannot fully substitute for SC3, indicating that both hydrophobins evolved to fulfil specific functions.




Sources:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18093852

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10760177


Wild types and those cultivated differ in mound production (not in the quotes but in case you were curious:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC388776/?page=1



See, that is an examle of what's NOT an ad-hominem argument.

Unless you're going to start arguing with journal articles; that wouldn't surprise me :rolleyes:


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Edited by micro (09/28/15 06:54 AM)


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: bluish green spots? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22301562 - 09/28/15 07:15 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Umm this is getting retarded.  If a SGFC gets dry hydrate the perilite and mist the substrate and fruits to aid in replacing lost moisture. I use a cheap mister to do this.




ahem... ???

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
I use a cheap spray bottle.




That was this post by the way:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22298248#22298248

Not like I said right before that I was talking about about someone who only had a cheap spray bottle.

Come on, dude. That's just low :v

At least admit when you are wrong.


Quote:

Second I know all about growing at elevation and in cooler temps,  winters here get down to -40. The inside of my house gets to be 1% RH in winter. It ain't fun for me. I help my fruits out by using a mister. I mist them directly. The tub walls do just fine without being misted.




You missed the boat.

The boat left and you weren't on it.

The point was in a stochastic system like this you can't assume the conditions for you are the same as the onditions for everyone else. I mean, you live in Canada. I'm sure the microbial ecosystem there is pretty f'ing far from that in idunno, FLORIDA

I'm not enumerating everything because I can't. That was the entire point.

That's why it is called a stochastic system. gg

Quote:

Third it looks like you're not listening. Given that you can't even use proper terms to describe anything I'm not surprised. I posted pics of monotubs with bulk substrates in them. Some were cased. Some were uncased. calling something "a casing" is not describing anything with any accuracy. I also posted pics of trays done in a SGFC. Some of them were cased. Some were not. I also used a mister on them. Again it was a cheap one from a dollar store.




ad hominem crap, repeating what you already said...

i won't bother to retort but i thought id point it out

Quote:

No i didn't include pics of cakes, I don't have many of them. But its all the same. Substrates that are getting dry need to be misted. They still need to breathe fresh air more than 5 times a day as well. Otherwise your pinset is poor and the fruits suffer.




Dude. We agree then.

Like I said, it was stated IN THIS THREAD that humidity doesn't matter.

You weren't the one that said it anyway.

Quote:

No one is saying fanning doesn't change out the built up CO2. No one. But the CO2 will build up again quickly.  I personally don't have time to exchange the gas in any chamber I run 48 times a day round the clock to keep CO2 concentration at acceptable levels. Go tell an oyster farmer that he can grow oysters in a sealed tub and just fan it to achieve gas exchange.  Then take note of his expression.




uhh... what?

dude, nobody does that

come on! you can do better


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Re: bluish green spots? [Re: micro]
    #22301569 - 09/28/15 07:16 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Why would i argue with an article that just proved my point? Albeit a different species and one I never hope to see in my grows, it does illustrate the importance of not saturating the substrate. FAE is a darn good way to prevent that. Thank you :thumbup:


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Re: bluish green spots? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22301590 - 09/28/15 07:24 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Wow. You have actually resorted to irrationality.

I even bolded / made the important parts red so it would be easier to digest.

If you read it a bit more carefully you'll notice it is triggerd by WATER not gas.

But you use a mister, which is fine to spray directly on the primordia.

The droplets are small enough.

I used to use a SPRAY BOTTLE which is why I didn't spray the primordia.

We had a mister.. It was my roommate's though.

I didn't really care, I tend to get away with a lot.

It's probably working in molbio, you get used to certain things.

Oh, if you still dont understand what you are reading there I can try to spoon feed it more later.

I have two interviews today. Not really for the job I want though. Just practice ;3


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Re: bluish green spots? [Re: micro]
    #22301627 - 09/28/15 07:43 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

So just how fine does the mist need to be? Raindrops too big? How about a shower head? What about pouring water out of a pitcher. I have hosed subs and pins down and even dunked them under pressure for 24 hours. Would that have made them abort?

Tell you what I'm gonna do. I got a small test jar of sub pinning right now. You tell me how big a droplet to hit them with and I will do it, with time stamp, make a thread out of it, and we can see what happens. Then we can stop jacking this poor thread and maybe have some fun and learn something in the process. I like hands on :smile:


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Re: bluish green spots? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22301665 - 09/28/15 07:59 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

idiots


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