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Offlinespecialpeopleclub
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Re: The Hajj Pilgrimage...700+ people dead.. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22284617 - 09/24/15 04:06 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

At least we are smart though, right?


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: The Hajj Pilgrimage...700+ people dead.. [Re: D.M.T]
    #22284619 - 09/24/15 04:06 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

you'd like that.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: The Hajj Pilgrimage...700+ people dead.. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22284754 - 09/24/15 04:38 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
the mods here are fucking idiots. but this place is entirely idiotic so it's not surprising. the shroomery is composed of 98% idiotic wastoid fucking morons.



:crankcid:


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: The Hajj Pilgrimage...700+ people dead.. [Re: koods]
    #22284759 - 09/24/15 04:39 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

:lookatit: look at all the shit

sorry i shouldn't be talking about ALL the mods. Yogabunny is a mod; now i feel bad.

it's more like 30% of the mods here are...they're beyond actually, levels of :imout: and into pure rhetorical shit.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: The Hajj Pilgrimage...700+ people dead.. [Re: sh4d0ws]
    #22284856 - 09/24/15 04:58 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

i apologize for my comments, but SirShrooms should never have gotten points for what he said, he did NOTHING WRONG

lets make that abundantly clear.


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OfflineSupachopped719
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Re: The Hajj Pilgrimage...700+ people dead.. [Re: akira_akuma] * 2
    #22284966 - 09/24/15 05:20 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

They died doing what they loved....

Worshipping Allah!

And killing each other....


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Real Eyes Realize Real Lies.


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OfflineKonyap

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Re: The Hajj Pilgrimage...700+ people dead.. [Re: Supachopped719]
    #22284997 - 09/24/15 05:26 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

They're just shitty people, like 2nd rate brown americans or something...


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: The Hajj Pilgrimage...700+ people dead.. [Re: sh4d0ws]
    #22285000 - 09/24/15 05:27 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Vietnam: they died doing what they love, shotguns and raping babies!


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OfflineMichAnon.ael
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Re: The Hajj Pilgrimage...700+ people dead.. [Re: sh4d0ws]
    #22285528 - 09/24/15 06:52 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I guess consumption increases as they day goes on, naturally, cuz discussion seemed good there the first five pages..

Anyway, hey The Beatles had to stop touring..

This side diacussion on immigration an whatnot: Colbert had Liz Warren on last night and she articulatly said: since the 80's 100% of increases in income/profit have gone to the top 10%. So i guess what i'm saying is, why is the discussion of 'they takin rr jobz' even relevant? I sapose 'they're sending our jobs away' would be way more acurate, or getting upset at robots for 'taken rr jobz' even..

Idk what happened to cause this but it's tragic and also a great opportunity to fix a thing or two while we're on the subject.
Could be spacing this event out a few weeks to keep numbers down and flow steady..
Could be realizing that muhammad didnt want his pic taken cuz it's not about a statue or 'thing'/object
Could be people could chill out a bit...

But idk what exactly began this.
Weird, i had cnn on earlier and they were covering some accident in WA with plenty of.. viggor lets call it; must have been just before this broke


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OfflineSupachopped719
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Re: The Hajj Pilgrimage...700+ people dead.. [Re: MichAnon.ael]
    #22287524 - 09/25/15 08:34 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Anybody have any ideas on what caused the stampede? I don't believe the poor planning excuse for a few reasons.

Firstly I've been to some massive events such as thanksgiving day parade in New York, multiple New Years in San Francisco, as well as a couple massive 4/20 celebrations. Each one had hundreds of thousands of people crammed into just a couple city blocks. Never have I heard of a stampede killing  even a couple people.

These events were also filled with people just completely obliterated on drugs or alcohol. This pilgrimage is in Saudi Arabia where everyone is sober as you can get. No booze in the whole country.

These events also had bottleneck choke points at some point where almost the whole crowd had to travel through a narrow area all at once when the events abruptly ended. Haven't heard of any deaths due to trampling.

I've even been In two stampedes. One at four twenty in golden gate park a couple years ago when right in the middle of this crowd of thousands upon thousands of people some one pulled out a gun. The people closest to the action bolted in all directions and cause a ripple effect and pretty much half the park was empty within moments.

The other was at an event called first Friday in Oakland, thousands of people on the streets of downtown Oakland for art and food and music and community. Again some knuckle head pulled a Gun and caused every one to scatter. Much smaller crowd but still.

I think one possibility is a gun was pulled in the middle of the crowd which caused hysteria. If this happened I think the Saudi government would cover it up. I mean just look at what people in the west have already been saying about this, now imagine if it was known to be caused by a violent Muslim. Everyone would be going even harder against Islam.


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Real Eyes Realize Real Lies.


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OfflineFlyOnTheWall
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Re: The Hajj Pilgrimage...700+ people dead.. [Re: Supachopped719]
    #22288400 - 09/25/15 01:17 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I have heard a couple of explanations-

1) Supposedly, there is a air conditioned tunnel along the road the pilgrims use to get to jamarat, where they have the 'stoning of the devil' ceremony. I've seen a few news outlets saying there was a rush to get to the air conditioned tunnel.

2) I've also read that it was caused by groups of people trying to move 'upstream' against the flow of people. People who finish the ritual are supposed to only move forward (obviously). However, apparently some groups of people who had already completed the ritual felt it would be quicker to go against the flow of people (who had not yet performed the ritual) to an exit they were not supposed to use. 

However, both of those could just be rumors.

I think it is safe to say it was probably caused by a number of problems. All these people are muslims, but most of them cannot talk to each other because they all speak different languages, so that creates an issue when it comes to crowd control. Throw in a some 100 degree heat and a few hundred thousand people trying to get to the same tiny area and it is basically a disaster waiting to happen.


Edited by FlyOnTheWall (09/25/15 01:25 PM)


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OfflineFlyOnTheWall
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Re: The Hajj Pilgrimage...700+ people dead.. [Re: sh4d0ws]
    #22288440 - 09/25/15 01:27 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Also-women cannot speak to anyone who isn't their father, brother, or husband (cuz allah). I'm sure this makes everything even more difficult. Even if most the pilgrims did speak the same language, half of the people there still wouldn't be able to communicate with each other.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: The Hajj Pilgrimage...700+ people dead.. [Re: sh4d0ws] * 1
    #22288475 - 09/25/15 01:38 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

It's Saudi Arabia. They take that shit seriously. I knew an American couple who worked in a compound for foreigner working in Saudi Arabia (yes... Most foreigners live in compounds separated from the citizens). The woman could not leave the compound without her husband. Saudi Arabia is the most disgusting country with the most disgusting culture on the planet, maybe North Korea is worse. Maybe.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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OfflineFlyOnTheWall
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Re: The Hajj Pilgrimage...700+ people dead.. [Re: sh4d0ws]
    #22288480 - 09/25/15 01:41 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

336 said:
Quote:

FlyOnTheWall said:
Also-women cannot speak to anyone who isn't their father, brother, or husband (cuz allah). I'm sure this makes everything even more difficult. Even if most the pilgrims did speak the same language, half of the people there still wouldn't be able to communicate with each other.



I'm curious exactly how strict that rule is still enforced on average.




If you are caught talking to a woman, you probably won't get your head cut off, but if the muttawah see you, you will probably be arrested.


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OfflineAdolin
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Re: The Hajj Pilgrimage...700+ people dead.. [Re: koods]
    #22288490 - 09/25/15 01:44 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

i dont know how accurate this is but its on the front page of r/worldnews

http://www.presstv.com/Detail/2015/09/24/430582/Saudi-stampede-hajj-prince-Salman

Quote:

The presence of the convoy of the son of the Saudi King Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud in central Mina prompted the stampede that killed hundreds of pilgrims on the outskirts of the holy city of Mecca, a report says.

The Arabic-language daily al-Diyar said in a report on Thursday that the convoy of Prince Mohammad bin Salman Al Saud played a central role in the deadly crush on the third day of the annual Hajj pilgrimage earlier in the day.

The report said that Salman, who had sought to attend the huge gathering of pilgrims in Mina, a large valley about five kilometers (three miles) from Mecca, arrived at the site early on Thursday accompanied by a huge entourage.

The report said 200 army forces and 150 police officers escorted the prince.

The report said the presence of the prince in the middle of the population prompted a change in the direction of the movement of the pilgrims and a stampede.

The Lebanese daily further said that Salman and his entourage swiftly abandoned the scene, adding that the Saudi authorities seek to hush up the entire story and impose a media blackout on Salman’s presence in the area.

However, officials in Saudi Arabia have denied the report, calling it "incorrect." The Saudi health minister has blamed the pilgrims for the tragedy. "If the pilgrims had followed instructions, this type of accident could have been avoided," Khaled al-Falih said. 

According to Iran's Hajj and Pilgrimage Organization more than 1,300 people, including 125 Iranians, were killed in the crush. This as Saudi officials put the death toll at 717 and the number of injured at 863.




Quote:

Leader of the Islamic Revolution Ayatollah Seyyed Ali Khamenei has declared three days of national mourning following the incident while urging the Saudi government to “shoulder its heavy responsibility” in the stampede and “meet its obligations in compliance with the rule of righteousness and fairness.”

Iran's Deputy Foreign Minister for Arab and African Affairs Hossein Amir-Abdollahian said on Thursday that Saudi Arabia should be held accountable over the death of the pilgrims. He said that the fatal crush started after Saudi security forces blocked two streets while the pilgrims were walking towards the final ritual of the Hajj.

"We can by no means remain indifferent towards Saudi Arabia's irresponsible behavior," said Amir-Abdollahian, adding, “The tactlessness on the part of relevant Saudi authorities to provide security for the pilgrims cannot be overlooked.”




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OfflineFlyOnTheWall
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Re: The Hajj Pilgrimage...700+ people dead.. [Re: koods]
    #22288494 - 09/25/15 01:45 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
It's Saudi Arabia. They take that shit seriously. I knew an American couple who worked in a compound for foreigner working in Saudi Arabia (yes... Most foreigners live in compounds separated from the citizens). The woman could not leave the compound without her husband. Saudi Arabia is the most disgusting country with the most disgusting culture on the planet, maybe North Korea is worse. Maybe.




This. They take that shit, waaaayyyy more seriously than I think you must realize.

Quote:

Do not approach a man and strike up a conversation. You can generally get away with speaking with male coworkers outside the office as long as you maintain a respectable physical distance. But don't risk approaching a male stranger to ask a question. Once again, your driver will be a huge help in these situations. In shops, however, it's generally okay to approach a male clerk and ask for help.




https://www.quora.com/What-is-life-like-for-a-Western-white-woman-living-in-Riyadh-Saudi-Arabia


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OfflineFlyOnTheWall
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Re: The Hajj Pilgrimage...700+ people dead.. [Re: FlyOnTheWall]
    #22288500 - 09/25/15 01:46 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:



Your heart was in the right place, but…

Dear Ben,

I am writing to you today as a woman who was born and raised in Islam. I saw your discussion with Bill Maher and Sam Harris, and I must say you did me a great disservice that day. Your heart was in the right place, of course, and it was lovely of you to step up and defend ‘my people’.

What you really did though, perhaps inadvertently, was silence a conversation that never gets started. Two people attempted to begin a dialogue and you wouldn’t even listen. Why should any set of ideas be above criticism, Ben?

Why are Muslims being ‘preserved’ in some time capsule of centuries gone by? Why is it okay that we continue to live in a world where our women are compared to candy waiting to be consumed? Why is it okay for women of the rest of the world to fight for freedom and equality while we are told to cover our shameful bodies? Can’t you see that we are being held back from joining this elite club known as the 21st century?

Noble liberals like yourself always stand up for the misrepresented Muslims and stand against the Islamophobes, which is great but who stands in my corner and for the others who feel oppressed by the religion? Every time we raise our voices, one of us is killed or threatened. I am a blogger and illustrator, no threat to anyone, Ben, except for those afraid of words and drawings. I want the freedom to express myself without the very real fear that I might be killed for it. Is that too much to ask?

When I wrote a children’s book that carried a message of diversity and inclusivity for everyone, my life changed. My book, ‘My Chacha (uncle) is Gay’ has the innocent anti-homophobia message, ‘Love belongs to everyone’. This was not palatable to many of my Muslim brothers and sisters.

Since that project I have been declared an ‘enemy of God’ and deemed worthy of death. All because I want to help create a world where South Asian children too can have their stories told, so they too can know that love comes in all forms, and that that’s okay. My Muslim brothers and sisters were hit hard by this work because it addresses the issue of homophobia within our own community. It is not something they can pass off as ‘Western’ immorality. Just like they deny that any issues exist within the doctrine of Islam, many deny that homosexuality exists amongst good, ‘moral’ Muslims. Just like that, millions of people’s existence is denied. Please do not defend people who think this way, and let me tell you Ben, many ‘good’ Muslims do think this way.

What you did by screaming ‘racist!’ was shut down a conversation that many of us have been waiting to have. You helped those who wish to deny there are issues, deny them. You became an instant hero, a defender of Islam. It’s kind, it really is. I understand because I too am plagued and affected by the issues brought about by actual Islamophobia. I have a Muslim name and brown skin, my peaceful relatives have been pushed in the subway and called ‘terrorist’ for no reason.

I get that.

We must distinguish critiquing an ideology from being hateful towards a group of people. And for this reason I think that tackling the issues within Islam should be two-pronged. They must be brought up, but simultaneously we should stress that blame for these issues cannot be placed on individuals.

In the interest of being politically correct and ‘liberal’, we silence the voices of millions. I am turning to you because you were instrumental in starting this conversation. Those of us who want reform are muted by extremists, as well as the liberals who betray us in the name of multiculturalism.

ISIS paints a horrific picture, so I understand the knee-jerk reaction to deny any link. Most Muslims choose to interpret scripture in a peaceful way, but that doesn’t mean the raw material isn’t there for those who choose the path of violence. That material must be addressed.

Can we talk about the blatant double standards and violation of human rights, for a second? Mosques are built throughout western countries, usually without much issue. But in the hub of Islam, the heart of Islam, Saudi Arabia, no one but Muslims are allowed to officially practice their faith. There are no churches, temples or synagogues because Saudi Arabia will not permit any non-Muslim place of worship to exist. Who will hold them accountable for such injustice if we hush everyone who speaks out against Islam?

What is so wrong with wanting to step into the current century? There should be no shame. There is no denying that violence, misogyny and homophobia exist in all religious texts, but Islam is the only religion that is adhered to so literally, to this day.

In your culture you have the luxury of calling such literalists “crazies”, like the Westboro Baptist Church, for example. In my culture, such values are upheld by more people than we realise. Many will try to deny it, but please hear me when I say that these are not fringe values. It is apparent in the lacking numbers of Muslims willing to speak out against the archaic Shariah law. The punishment for blasphemy and apostasy, etc, are tools of oppression. Why are they not addressed even by the peaceful folk who “aren’t fanatical, who just want to have some sandwiches and pray five times a day? Where are the Muslim protestors against blasphemy laws/apostasy? Where are the Muslims who take a stand against harsh interpretation of Shariah? These sandwich-eating peaceful folk do not defend those suffering in the name of Islam, Ben, and therein lies our problem.

Maybe the points Maher and Harris were trying to make are more easily digested when coming from within the community, I can appreciate that. That is why I am writing to you, as someone who has personally been hurt by the lack of acknowledgement of these issues.

If Muslims do not critique their own atrocities, then people on the outside will and their message will not be listened to simply because of who they are. It’s a vicious cycle, one that can only break if indeed, like Harris said, true reformers are empowered.

I ask you and anyone reading this to make an effort to seek out reformers from within our community, and support them in any way you can.

If I were allowed to meet a man that is not my father, brother or husband unchaperoned, I would have loved to discuss this over drinks (which I am also not allowed to have) with you. So, you see, things must change.

Sincerely,

Eiynah





http://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/2014/10/25/comment/an-open-letter-to-ben-affleck/


This is what a women in Pakistan had to say when Ben Affleck tried to 'defend' islam.

I think you should read that whole letter before you continue defending an ideology you don't understand, 336. I mean that in the nicest way possible. 


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OfflineFlyOnTheWall
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Re: The Hajj Pilgrimage...700+ people dead.. [Re: sh4d0ws]
    #22288514 - 09/25/15 01:51 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

336 said:
Quote:

koods said:
It's Saudi Arabia. They take that shit seriously. I knew an American couple who worked in a compound for foreigner working in Saudi Arabia (yes... Most foreigners live in compounds separated from the citizens). The woman could not leave the compound without her husband. Saudi Arabia is the most disgusting country with the most disgusting culture on the planet, maybe North Korea is worse. Maybe.




Quote:

FlyOnTheWall said:
Quote:

336 said:
Quote:

FlyOnTheWall said:
Also-women cannot speak to anyone who isn't their father, brother, or husband (cuz allah). I'm sure this makes everything even more difficult. Even if most the pilgrims did speak the same language, half of the people there still wouldn't be able to communicate with each other.



I'm curious exactly how strict that rule is still enforced on average.




If you are caught talking to a woman, you probably won't get your head cut off, but if the muttawah see you, you will probably be arrested.




I'd think there'd be a lot more cases of foreign Muslims who don't abide by those rules getting arrested etc.




Again, I am really not trying to be condescending, but I think you need to do more research if you are saying that. They really do not fuck around in Saudi Arabia. It is not a joke to these people.


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OfflineFlyOnTheWall
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Re: The Hajj Pilgrimage...700+ people dead.. [Re: sh4d0ws]
    #22288610 - 09/25/15 02:15 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

336 said:
Don't go looking it up now;




So what are you even saying? You don't like being presented with facts? You want me to just spout off random shit I vaguely remember reading about one time, whether the information is correct or not?

That is the most idiotic and unproductive method of discussion I have ever heard of...

It is obvious you do not know much about this subject, and it seems like you do not even really want to educate yourself by doing your own research...

Anyways, I am done. You win. Islam is perfect and women are stupid for complaining about its problems. There are no human rights issues in Saudi Arabia whatsoever, and everything is perfect.

Have a good one!


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OfflineUzziel
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Re: The Hajj Pilgrimage...700+ people dead.. [Re: sh4d0ws]
    #22288620 - 09/25/15 02:17 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

336 said:

Islam is not just a destructive religion, neither is Christianity (despite the Crusader Wars...) or Judeism .






:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:



:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:



:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:


This post definitely deserves the darwins award.


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