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OfflineSivarted
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Starting up shiitakes
    #22281819 - 09/24/15 12:09 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

So there's obviously *tons* of info about growing shiitakes, I can search and read and do all that, what I've had a little more trouble finding info about is the best way to start. 

Obviously one of the prime desirable qualities is how they taste, and I assume this will be at least slightly different between different strains.

My current plan is to rather than buy a starter culture, to shop around, taste test a few, and clone a few promising ones to agar.

Am I over thinking this?  Is a shiitake a shiitake is a shiitake?  :smile:


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InvisibleToadstool5
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Re: Starting up shiitakes [Re: Sivarted]
    #22281828 - 09/24/15 12:14 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

:popcorn:

I'm interested too!

I have heard most of the commercially grown stuff is shiitake 75 due to its size and reliability but that there are better tasting strains.

Right now i only have 75 so i have no way of knowing.


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OfflineSivarted
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Re: Starting up shiitakes [Re: Toadstool5]
    #22281839 - 09/24/15 12:19 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Toadstool5 said:
:popcorn:

I'm interested too!

I have heard most of the commercially grown stuff is shiitake 75 due to its size and reliability but that there are better tasting strains.

Right now i only have 75 so i have no way of knowing.




If that's true then that's probably what I'd end up with from grocery stores here anyway, but I'm kinda excited about cloning and agar work anyway so I'll probably still do that. :smile:


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: Starting up shiitakes [Re: Toadstool5]
    #22282538 - 09/24/15 08:17 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Toadstool5 said:

I have heard most of the commercially grown stuff is shiitake 75 due to its size and reliability but that there are better tasting strains.




not a chance in hell anyone would grow shiitake 75 commercially.  it's yields are low and it  throws off a lot of mutants.  most of the commerically grown strains in the US are 3782, CS-1, and 4075 (that I know of).  We grow 3782 and are trialing 4075.


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: Starting up shiitakes [Re: drake89]
    #22282541 - 09/24/15 08:18 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)



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InvisibleToadstool5
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Re: Starting up shiitakes [Re: drake89]
    #22284535 - 09/24/15 03:45 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

RR had said many were 75 but that post was a few years old so I'm not surprised people have moved on to better genetics.

Good to know what are the most commonly used nowadays! Thanks, i'm super new to shiitake and like OP I am also looking to find a good tasting strain.

Do you have a favorite strain in terms of taste?


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If you do not know where the mushroom products you are consuming are grown, think twice before eating them. :badshroom:
- Paul Stamets

AMU Teks :mushroom2: Stro's Write Ups


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: Starting up shiitakes [Re: Toadstool5]
    #22287409 - 09/25/15 07:53 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Toadstool5 said:
RR had said many were 75 but that post was a few years old so I'm not surprised people have moved on to better genetics.

Good to know what are the most commonly used nowadays! Thanks, i'm super new to shiitake and like OP I am also looking to find a good tasting strain.

Do you have a favorite strain in terms of taste?



a shiitake is a shiitake.  they all taste the same to me.  different strains will make different sized caps, like small to huge.  as shown in that chart i posted.  even then, if you only have one pin on a block it's likely to get giant if you let it.


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OfflineSivarted
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Re: Starting up shiitakes [Re: drake89]
    #22288979 - 09/25/15 03:44 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

drake89 said:
Quote:

Toadstool5 said:
RR had said many were 75 but that post was a few years old so I'm not surprised people have moved on to better genetics.

Good to know what are the most commonly used nowadays! Thanks, i'm super new to shiitake and like OP I am also looking to find a good tasting strain.

Do you have a favorite strain in terms of taste?



a shiitake is a shiitake.  they all taste the same to me.  different strains will make different sized caps, like small to huge.  as shown in that chart i posted.  even then, if you only have one pin on a block it's likely to get giant if you let it.




Sounds like my plan of cloning a fruit from the store is a decent one then.  At least I'll know I have a strain that is considered commercially viable, even though I won't know what strain it is. :smile:


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Offlinemikesethnobotany
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Re: Starting up shiitakes [Re: Sivarted]
    #22290130 - 09/25/15 08:55 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Good luck!

It should work just fine, the only problem I could see you running into is that of
senescence. Just a quick rundown on the subject, for educational purposes

When you take a clone of a mushroom, you're using tissue that has grown fromm a tiny
mycelial mass, then grown out to a massive scale for commercial production where often
times they push the mycelium to the max amount possible that it can be expanded. You
can only grow out that mass so much before the growth starts to decline, which could
affectyields, colonization times, etc.

Again for a starter project it should be fine. Here is what I'm talking about:



You can see that you have the same genetics up until spores drop and the spores
become haploid (1 set of chromosomes) hyphae. Two haploid hyphae join and become
one diploid mycelium. The mushrooms that are picked have more or less the same
genetics as the original diploid mycelium that started from two hyphae meeting.

Since that same genetic material has grown and grown and grown (mitosis) you will
eventually reach a point where that genetic material reaches a point of senescence,
where it will not want to grow as fast any longer and is ready to form spores and produce
progeny.

Anyways, maybe too much information, I dunno. Take what you will from it

:toast:


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OfflineSivarted
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Re: Starting up shiitakes [Re: mikesethnobotany]
    #22291391 - 09/26/15 12:56 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Definitely not too much information, and something that I have thought about.  My plan was to clone to agar, get a clean plate, and save that as sort of a master, or even do a slant from it.

My thought process is that commercially grown mushrooms probably don't come from clones of clones, and that there should still be some good life left in the mycelium. 

I'd also take prints and do some re-isolation from there, with the understanding that once you go back to spores, senescence is no longer and issue, although you do go back to varied genetics.


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Invisiblechampinhom
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Re: Starting up shiitakes [Re: mikesethnobotany]
    #22294960 - 09/26/15 06:22 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

mikesethnobotany said:
maybe too much information, I dunno.





Not at all. The more the better.:thumbup:


--------------------
My father used to say: I don't care what else you do in life, just don't be an asshole. People, forgive me when I forget what my daddy said.

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Offlinedrake89
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Re: Starting up shiitakes [Re: champinhom]
    #22295402 - 09/26/15 07:37 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

senescence is largely a fallacy.  what's more important is getting a fresh mushroom to work with.  i would suggest a farmer's market over a grocery store for quality genetics.  most grocery store mushrooms are shit.


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Offlinemikesethnobotany
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Re: Starting up shiitakes [Re: drake89]
    #22298247 - 09/27/15 12:07 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

drake89 said:
senescence is largely a fallacy.  what's more important is getting a fresh mushroom to work with.  i would suggest a farmer's market over a grocery store for quality genetics.  most grocery store mushrooms are shit.




Your website has "expired" btw


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: Starting up shiitakes [Re: mikesethnobotany]
    #22298466 - 09/27/15 12:54 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

mikesethnobotany said:
Quote:

drake89 said:
senescence is largely a fallacy.  what's more important is getting a fresh mushroom to work with.  i would suggest a farmer's market over a grocery store for quality genetics.  most grocery store mushrooms are shit.




Your website has "expired" btw



Yeah I took it down when I quit selling cultures and converted from diversified mushrooms to only shiitakes.  I still pay for hosting so I get emails and all our stuff is on facebook.


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OfflineSivarted
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Re: Starting up shiitakes [Re: drake89]
    #22321478 - 10/01/15 10:21 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Update:  I got agar supplies and used pasty's agar tek, put down 6 each of shiitake and oyster.  Ended up not doing a taste test because of the 4 or 5 stores I went to, only one had shiitake that didn't look like it had been sitting there for a month.

It's only been a couple days so it's hard to tell for sure, but the shiitake seems to be doing very poorly, with most of the chunks starting to turn black. 

The oysters seems to be doing ok though, starting to see a tiny bit of mycelium growing.  :smile:

If this batch goes south, I'll give it another try before breaking down and buying spores or a culture.


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OfflineSivarted
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Re: Starting up shiitakes [Re: drake89]
    #22321486 - 10/01/15 10:22 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

drake89 said:
senescence is largely a fallacy.  what's more important is getting a fresh mushroom to work with.  i would suggest a farmer's market over a grocery store for quality genetics.  most grocery store mushrooms are shit.




I think I have like one or two more weeks before farmers markets shut down here, so that will be my next shot if the current set of pastyplates don't pan out


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InvisibleToadstool5
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Re: Starting up shiitakes [Re: Sivarted]
    #22321627 - 10/01/15 11:09 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

And if that doesn't work:

1. Read up on everything while you wait to have access to the marketplace.
2. Trade for a wedge/slant/plate or purchase one from a sponser.

Shiitake are really slow and somewhat delicate in my experience. Oysters on the other hand, can't be stopped :lol: :flamethrow:

Good luck and keep us updated!


--------------------
If you do not know where the mushroom products you are consuming are grown, think twice before eating them. :badshroom:
- Paul Stamets

AMU Teks :mushroom2: Stro's Write Ups


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: Starting up shiitakes [Re: Toadstool5]
    #22322394 - 10/02/15 07:18 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Toadstool5 said:
And if that doesn't work:

1. Read up on everything while you wait to have access to the marketplace.
2. Trade for a wedge/slant/plate or purchase one from a sponser.

Shiitake are really slow and somewhat delicate in my experience. Oysters on the other hand, can't be stopped :lol: :flamethrow:

Good luck and keep us updated!




probably because you get your strains from the market place.  they should be almost as fast as oysters on agar, only slightly slower on grain and sawdust.  sourcing high quality information and genetics is the biggest hurdle in becoming a professional grower.  I would suggest purchasing a slant of shiitake 3782 from Aloha or Mycelia.  Or trading with someone if you can't afford it.  I don't know any successful small time growers that grow any other strain.


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InvisibleToadstool5
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Re: Starting up shiitakes [Re: drake89]
    #22323025 - 10/02/15 10:49 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah i've been told my 75 was passed around a lot and known for being a pretty slow colonizer.

It does do very well on agar but when i drop wedges to grain the oysters really leave them in the dust. :shrug:

Does sporulation help "revive" the culture? Or is it something aside from senescence from transfers that causes them to lose their vigor?

Regardless I'm going take your advice and try to get 3782. A shiitake that does almost as good as oysters in terms of colonization on grains/sub sounds great!

Thanks for the tips :cheers:


--------------------
If you do not know where the mushroom products you are consuming are grown, think twice before eating them. :badshroom:
- Paul Stamets

AMU Teks :mushroom2: Stro's Write Ups


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OfflinepoofterFroth
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Re: Starting up shiitakes [Re: Toadstool5]
    #22323860 - 10/02/15 01:48 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

There's actually lots of small & successful growers using many other shiitake cultures besides shiitake 3782.

Many of the field and forest shiiatke strains are very fruitful and don't cost much to aquire. :aweohyou:


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