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morrowasted
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Addiction/delusion: the secrets psychiatrists prescribing amphetamines have swept under the rug 5
#22280587 - 09/23/15 08:21 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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This article states that a plausible treatment for so-called "reward deficiency syndrome", which is hypothesized to correspond to a diminished number of dopamine-2 receptors in the ventral tegmental area of the mesolimbic system, is the use of chemicals that cause the release of dopamine.*
*(amphetamines are the most effective legal means of accomplishing this).
Amphetamines and Addiction
Adderall and other amphetamines bind to dopamine-2 receptors (among others) in the ventral tegmental area (VTA) of the mesolimbic cortex.
The key pleasure center of the brain is the nucleus accumbens (NA). This is what happens when you implant electrodes directly into the NA:
Quote:
1972: A 24-year-old man with temporal lobe epilepsy, identified as patient "B-19". "He was permitted to wear the device for 3 hours at a time: on one occasion he stimulated his septal region 1,200 times, on another occasion 1,500 times, and on a third occasion 900 times. He protested each time the unit was taken from him, pleading to self-stimulate 'just a few more times'... "
In the brain, the neurons in the NA are activated by dopamine neurons in the ventral tegmental area. The evolutionary purpose of this is to reward behavior involved in "fitness". For example, whenever we eat something high in calories, we get a dopamine spike, because, from an evolutionary perspective, doing so is a behavior that contributes to "fitness" (even though in the modern world it may no longer be one- depending on what part of the world you live in, and your economic circumstances/metabolic makeup). Whenever we have sex, we get a dopamine spike, because from an evolutionary perspective having sex contributes to species fitness. And whenever we have a dopamine spika, as stated, the NA is activated, and we "feel good", and are thus rewarded for our behavior, making us more likely to do it again.
Not only that, but when dopamine spikes occur in the VTA and the NA, glutamate pathways are formed between those areas and the frontal cortex, which is the area involved in making rational decisions. The glutamate pathways appear to mediate long term memories associated with the behavior that caused the dopamine spike. Again, the evolutionary function of this was to enable memory of vital information: how to find/identify a certain kind of fruit, how to hunt a certain kind of prey, how to bed a certain kind of woman, etc.
Now, then: if you are astute, you should already be able to see where problems will arise when taking a chemical that releases dopamine in the VTA. When you take a chemical that releases dopamine in the VTA, there is no fitness-contributing behavior to associate with the release of that dopamine. The idea here with psychiatry is that you get a rewarding sensation associated with whatever it is you are doing- homework, for example. Thus, you are able to remain focused because you are merely consistently engaging in a behavior that you are being actively, if artificially, rewarded for.
The problems with this approach are include:
- Addiction: In terms of addiction, the effect of prescribed amphetamines on brain pathology is virtually indifferentiable from the effect of street amphetamines, and differs only in matters degree which do not not appear to be especially significant (though it is true that methamphetamines tend to be more neurotoxic). For example, because of recent anti-drug government propaganda, the average person may have the notion that methaphetamine must be 10x or even 100x times more addictive than Adderall, Ritalin, or Vyvanse, but that is simply not true; in fact, methamphetamine breaks down and metabolizes into amphetamine over a long period of time, so it is essentially just a long-lasting version of the same drug. Every time you take an amphetamine, you are essentially "hijacking" your brain's reward circuit, so that a behavior which doesn't contribute to fitness is nevertheless rewarding. The idea, again is that they will associate "homework" (or whatever you do) with reward, but what psychiatrists and prescription amphetamine users neglect to acknowledge is the fact that what is actually associated with reward is using the amphetamine, because the unless the user is a young child he or she KNOWS it is what is causing the reward, and because it is the only behavior that is consistently involved in the rewarding sensation, regardless of what the user then proceeds to do. 1 2
- Withdrawal/Physical Dependence: Many people will take issue with the fact that I have used the phrase physical dependence rather than psychological dependence, but at a neurobiological/neurochemical level, the distinction between what is physical and what is psychological is illusory. If you continually take you take an amphetamine daily, your brain begins to make dopamine-2 reuptake terminals as part of a homeostatic process. Homeostasis is the neurobiological process of "checks and balances" wherein the brain regulates itself to maintain a stable condition corresponding to a "baseline." If the dopaminergic neurons in the VTA and NA are consistently hyperpolarized (activated) in response to any and all inputs, there will be an attempt to re-establish a baseline so that some experiences can actually be rewarding relative to others in order that learning may continue to occur. In an attempt to achieve this, the brain creates "reuptake transporters" whose job it is to "suck up some of the dopamine" that gets released before it can activate the post-synaptic neuron. But amphetamines also block reuptake transporters while they are active in your system, meaning that your brain creates more and more reuptake transporters that aren't getting used- YET. Whenever an amphetamine user DOES quit, he or she is left with a mesolimbic pathway that has a significantly higher concentration of dopamine reuptake transporter than it did before prior to amphetamine use. This means that any dopamine in the VTA which is released by natural means is "sucked back up" before activating post-synaptic neurons in the VA to a much greater extent than it was prior to amphetamine use, which means that however poor the user's focus may have been prior to using amphetamines, it is now likely to be significantly worse. 3 4
Amphetamine users are also report severe fatigue upon cessation.
-Physical side effects There are many potential physical side effects of amphetamines during use and after cessation. The most common of these include:
--Anxiety and sleep disturbances. For many individuals these symptoms are so severe that the user begins taking antidepressants, tranquilizers, and/or sedatives in an effort to alleviate them.
--Weight fluctuation. CNS stimulants may a result in a secondary cascade of metabolic changes over time. Typically the metabolism will be slowed. This does not necessarily mean that the individual will gain weight. Many stimulant users consume fewer calories because stimulants reduce appetite; however, when the user does quit, he or she is left with a lowered metabolism and is likely to gain weight because of that fact, coupled with the fact that his or her consumption of calories is likely to increase.
-- Skin irritation. Amphetamines cause sweating and dehydration, which can lead to oily skin and clogged pores, which leads to acne. Many users- because they feel so alert/hyper-aware/hyer-sensitive- have a tendency to touch and rub their face, pop their pimples, and even sometimes even pick at their scabs, which can lead to scarring and poor overall skin condition. This is certainly not true for all amphetamine users. Don't simply accept the "Faces of Meth" posters; there are many crystal meth users who are stunningly beautiful (on the outside).
Amphetamines and Delusion
Although delusion is typically associated with amphetamine abuse ,I believe that amphetamine use itself- for any reason other than to intentionally "get high", with a full understanding of the potential risks and consequences- also involves a delusional thought process; one that is more subtle. The delusion is that (the user believes) that by taking amphetamines, he or she is "fixing a problem".
The first potentially incorrect assumption the user has made is that he or she necessarily "has a problem". While it is probably true that the differing neurochemical compositions of brains correspond to differing classes of behavior, it is the responsibility of the medical community to accurately identify which of these compositions can be genuinely described as problematic. Individuals whose neurochemistries are associated with homicidal or suicidal behaviors, for example, should absolutely be identified and treated. But it seems to me odd to regard 8 year olds- or any human, really- with an inability to sit in a chair and stare in one direction for 3 hours at a time as "problematic".
The second, and perhaps more insidious, part of the delusion, is that, instead of fixing the so-called problem, they are making it worse. Parents of children who have been diagnosed with ADD/ADHD often delight in amphetamines, because, quite frankly, they make parenting easier. The formerly energetic, difficult to keep up with, happy-go-lucky, talk-a-mile-a-minute, uninterested in irrelevant schoolwork, distractable child is suddenly quiet, (apparently) contemplative, staid, stoic, reticent, and studious. It feels like a miracle, and oftentimes the parent may honestly believe that that is how "normal" children behave all the time, and that amphetamines have allowed her child to become "normal", to behave like all the other children. She may be in for a shock when her child becomes a teenager and she discovers that children who used amphetamine are more than twice as likely to abuse and/or become addicted to illicit drugs as those "normal" teenagers.
The Blame Game
Who is to blame? In the case of children being prescribed amphetamines, they of course cannot be blamed. Can we blame the parents? While the parents are occasionally guilty of seeking an "out" from their parental responsibilities, I do believe they are usually doing what they think is in their child's best interests- to help their child succeed in the context of our society/culture. Can we blame the doctors? More so than the parents, because they ought to know the potential dangers of the drugs they prescribe (which they oftentimes, unfortunately, do not). But the doctors base their decisions on the research done in the medical community, which currently describes ADD/ADHD in terms of Reward Deficiency Syndrome. Regardless of what they believe is true about ADD/ADHD in the privacy of their own minds and homes, if they openly reject current medical models about RDS, they will be regarded as "quacks", and patients will simply go to the next doctor to get treated by a doctor who does accept the current medical models. Because, after all, the patients have the internet, and friends, and the TV, filled with pharmaceutical commercials, paid for by pharmaceutical companies. So, then, maybe we can blame those companies. Well, probably more so than the doctors. But even then, not entirely. They are merely the supply for an existing demand. We could keep going and ask whether or not to blame capitalism, but I will stop there, because the line of questioning will just go on and on, getting increasingly absurd. We as a society demand amphetamines. And there is crux of the matter.
Can we blame society? Well, yes and no. We can say that our society is the cause of the problem, insofar as it involves situations and circumstances that make people either feel like they need to take amphetamines to function or to cope. But we cannot put the onus of responsibility on society as a whole, because society is an abstract construct that we only use for the sake of convenience when we are having a discussion. Some individuals are not at all at fault, and a few individuals are very much at fault. But in the case of most individuals, the problem is not even malevolence, but rather a lack of understanding. This is probably not a problem that can be solved by at an institutional level; through policy, or legislation. There will always be individuals who want to take shortcuts to success and pleasure.
One by one, however, we can wake up from the delusion that shortcuts exist in life. Cliche as it may be to reiterate, life truly is about the journey, not the destination.
Edited by morrowasted (09/23/15 08:43 PM)
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Beanhead
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Re: Addiction/delusion: the secrets psychiatrists prescribing amphetamines have swept under the rug [Re: morrowasted]
#22281141 - 09/23/15 09:08 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I challenge you to dance a night on amphetamines drinking solely fruitsmoothies/veggiejuice without smoking, then, take a hot shower and feel your skin afterwards
ohmgodsosmooth
Amphetamines are the perfect lifehack.
You can train your muscle memory for years on end or just in a few hours, days, weeks on amphetamines
Gawd I miss that stuff
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iad
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Re: Addiction/delusion: the secrets psychiatrists prescribing amphetamines have swept under the rug [Re: Beanhead]
#22281356 - 09/23/15 09:30 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Are you talking about Adderall or other stuff? I've been curious about amphetamines myself.
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morrowasted
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Re: Addiction/delusion: the secrets psychiatrists prescribing amphetamines have swept under the rug [Re: Beanhead]
#22281376 - 09/23/15 09:37 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Beanhead said: I challenge you to dance a night on amphetamines drinking solely fruitsmoothies/veggiejuice without smoking, then, take a hot shower and feel your skin afterwards
ohmgodsosmooth
Amphetamines are the perfect lifehack.
You can train your muscle memory for years on end or just in a few hours, days, weeks on amphetamines
Gawd I miss that stuff 
I took 60-120mg Vyvanse/30mg Ritalin or 200mg Meth 3-4 times a week for 4 years
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Beanhead
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Re: Addiction/delusion: the secrets psychiatrists prescribing amphetamines have swept under the rug [Re: morrowasted]
#22281472 - 09/23/15 10:09 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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That's a lot o.O
Nice, I only went on a year of dosing on and off.
Can't say i've said goodbye forever. Taking a 5 year hiatus at the moment then partyhard again .
Edited by Beanhead (09/23/15 10:09 PM)
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Alexestalex
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Re: Addiction/delusion: the secrets psychiatrists prescribing amphetamines have swept under the rug [Re: morrowasted]
#22281515 - 09/23/15 10:20 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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too much truth in this thread, i'll comment later when I have time.
to put it briefly, it's unfortunate but too many people have this rigid mentality that just because a doctor prescribed the drug, it must be safe.
--------------------
Stay far from timid, only make moves when your heart's in it.
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sh4d0ws
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Re: Addiction/delusion: the secrets psychiatrists prescribing amphetamines have swept under the rug [Re: morrowasted]
#22281560 - 09/23/15 10:32 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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BC should be unbanned soon and will attempt to dispute everything you have said.
Good thread though
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Enjoywho
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Re: Addiction/delusion: the secrets psychiatrists prescribing amphetamines have swept under the rug [Re: sh4d0ws]
#22281588 - 09/23/15 10:43 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I have smoked math quite a few times the past 3 weeks and let me tell ya. I can understand why its so addictive now. I had always shot it but it was kind of a once and a while thing. Smoking it is pretty much just as good as shooting it. It hits the pleasure center so hard. I work at 8 am as well so running maybe if lucky 2 hours of sleep I just feel depressed as fuck all day.
And on Pharm speed fuck my moms like 8 year old nephew gets Ritalin. I looked at the dosage and was like holy shit. Ive taken 2 of these before and my eyes were literally shaking I was high as fuck all night long.
-------------------- "I don't give nothin' to nobody, I just pay the cost to do business." - Riley "Young Reezy"-Boondocks "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." "In the days of kings and queens I was a jester." "And then the great lord created bears... too many bears... shoulda really dialed back on the bears." Squidbillies "Can you start speaking words instead of your damn filthy lies!"- Louise "Bobs Burgers"
Edited by Enjoywho (09/23/15 10:44 PM)
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morrowasted
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Re: Addiction/delusion: the secrets psychiatrists prescribing amphetamines have swept under the rug [Re: Alexestalex]
#22281619 - 09/23/15 10:59 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Alexestalex said: too much truth in this thread, i'll comment later when I have time.
to put it briefly, it's unfortunate but too many people have this rigid mentality that just because a doctor prescribed the drug, it must be safe.
I think that mentality is reinforced by the rewarding nature of the drug. people feel like they have to defend that position in the same way that someone feels like they have to defend anything their brain associates with survival, because the same brain area that is dictating their thoughts and behavior. so to try to tell someone who is addicted to amphetamines that they are simply deluding themselves is like trying to convince your friend who is fucking a girl who he shouldn't be fucking that he is deluding himself
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LuSiD enthusiast
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Re: Addiction/delusion: the secrets psychiatrists prescribing amphetamines have swept under the rug [Re: sh4d0ws]
#22281645 - 09/23/15 11:06 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
sh4d0ws said: BC should be unbanned soon and will attempt to dispute everything you have said.
Good thread though 
I was about to say this, but think about it. It's what we expect, so it wouldn't irritate us as much if we could anticipate it.
He'll be back and he'll state how he took what everyone said seriously and had a long hard think, and decided to go full straight edge and he will condemn anyone who uses them.
-------------------- I'm addicted to coke, weed, booze, ludes and speed. Not LSD, you can't get addicted to LSD, it was built by scientists. I ain't got no demons that gonna get woke. In erowid we trust. Just take your damn pills and don't ask any questions, you'll be fine.
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Shroomslip
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Re: Addiction/delusion: the secrets psychiatrists prescribing amphetamines have swept under the rug [Re: sh4d0ws] 1
#22281876 - 09/24/15 12:39 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enjoywho said: I have smoked math quite a few times the past 3 weeks and let me tell ya.

I can't wait til BC comes here.
--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
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Achillita
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Re: Addiction/delusion: the secrets psychiatrists prescribing amphetamines have swept under the rug [Re: Shroomslip]
#22281902 - 09/24/15 12:54 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
I can't wait til BC comes here.
True, this whole thread was inspred by his HPPD thread
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ThatKidWithTheFace
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Re: Addiction/delusion: the secrets psychiatrists prescribing amphetamines have swept under the rug [Re: morrowasted]
#22281909 - 09/24/15 12:58 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Also, excellent post.
-------------------- Check Out My Beats SoundCloud
[quote]Sheekle said: [quote]ThatKidWithTheFace said: Is this the same aunt that fucks dogs?[/quote] u bet ur ass it is.[/quote]
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LeningradCowboy
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Re: Addiction/delusion: the secrets psychiatrists prescribing amphetamines have swept under the rug [Re: Achillita]
#22282086 - 09/24/15 03:47 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Achillita said:
Quote:
I can't wait til BC comes here.
True, this whole thread was inspred by his HPPD thread 
-------------------- From tundra with love!
FREE HAMHEAD 2020!
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morrowasted
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Re: Addiction/delusion: the secrets psychiatrists prescribing amphetamines have swept under the rug [Re: LeningradCowboy]
#22282623 - 09/24/15 08:40 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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[flash=480,81]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=[/flash]
Sam Harris - Drugs and the Meaning of Life
It's about psychedelics but applies to using drugs to as a shortcut to altering consciousness in general
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akira_akuma
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Re: Addiction/delusion: the secrets psychiatrists prescribing amphetamines have swept under the rug [Re: morrowasted]
#22282656 - 09/24/15 08:51 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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i like drugs and my pleasure center's being stimulated...i like it more from drugs than i do from most other pursuits, such as money, or even sex. people frankly waste too much time on those pursuits and not enough time is spent acquiring knowledge - knowledge doesn't stimulate as much as other things so it's put by the wayside - and the thing is that people tend to not stimulate themselves with the implications of knowledge (being right) unless they're being paid with something, which only exacerbates the willing idiocy of most everybody.
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sunkeep
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Re: Addiction/delusion: the secrets psychiatrists prescribing amphetamines have swept under the rug [Re: morrowasted]
#22284014 - 09/24/15 01:42 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Good quality post, seems to go again the general trend in here.
Do you science bro? I didn't know amphetamines bind the dopamine receptor, I've always assumed they just inhibit the reuptake transporter.
I use racemic amphetamine that is uncut. Pure crystal uncut speed (not meth tho). Basically me and this chick get high once in a while and have sex for 10 hours. Thats pretty much what 99% of my amphetamine use is.
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ThatKidWithTheFace
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Re: Addiction/delusion: the secrets psychiatrists prescribing amphetamines have swept under the rug [Re: sunkeep]
#22284038 - 09/24/15 01:47 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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What is this "uncut speed" that's not meth?
-------------------- Check Out My Beats SoundCloud
[quote]Sheekle said: [quote]ThatKidWithTheFace said: Is this the same aunt that fucks dogs?[/quote] u bet ur ass it is.[/quote]
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sunkeep
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Re: Addiction/delusion: the secrets psychiatrists prescribing amphetamines have swept under the rug [Re: ThatKidWithTheFace]
#22284067 - 09/24/15 01:52 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
ThatKidWithTheFace said: What is this "uncut speed" that's not meth?
Essentially pure racemic amphetamine sulphate. When you get it in crystal form it very quickly becomes white because amphetamine is hygroscopic (since its a primary amine).
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ThatKidWithTheFace
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Re: Addiction/delusion: the secrets psychiatrists prescribing amphetamines have swept under the rug [Re: sunkeep]
#22284085 - 09/24/15 01:55 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Ah, I see What's the difference between that and Methamphetamine?
-------------------- Check Out My Beats SoundCloud
[quote]Sheekle said: [quote]ThatKidWithTheFace said: Is this the same aunt that fucks dogs?[/quote] u bet ur ass it is.[/quote]
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